To Marathon or not to Marathon?

Most big or even little marathons have lots to eat, fruit and such, and GU'y stuff , too, set out for runners. You'll probably not need to carry anything on the actual race, just on your longer training runs.
...but you knew that.
Hey, Mr. Tree, you mentioned that you do 10-to-12-mile runs as part of your weekly routine. For marathon preparation, do you amp that up a lot, or do you just run a lot further for the race than you do during training? I'm used to thinking of races as runs where you run as fast as you can, not ones where you run further than you have before, so this is all kind of new to me conceptually.
 
I'm used to thinking of races as runs where you run as fast as you can, not ones where you run further than you have before, so this is all kind of new to me conceptually.
This explains exactly how I feel, I just couldn't put it into words....well done Lee
 
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This explains exactly how I feel, I just couldn't put it into words....well done Lee
Yah, seems bizarre not to have run the same distance or more before you race it, but then if you're just racing to finish, it would be a bit anti-climatic if you've already run a marathon distance in training several times already. And if you're doing a 20-mile training run, wouldn't there be a temptation to run another 6.2 miles to see if you can do it? Oh well, nothing I have to worry about until next year, at the earliest. I'm still building up to the 10-mile at 10mm pace milestone--hopefully I get there sometime soon.
 
Hey, Mr. Tree, you mentioned that you do 10-to-12-mile runs as part of your weekly routine. For marathon preparation, do you amp that up a lot, or do you just run a lot further for the race than you do during training? I'm used to thinking of races as runs where you run as fast as you can, not ones where you run further than you have before, so this is all kind of new to me conceptually.
Lee- First, after my last effort, I don't do Marathons anymore. I just don't have the time nor do I feel the need. Besides, they hurt! (but that might be an artifact of not having the time to prep properly.)
Second, if you want to do a first marathon, do at least 2 things better than I did: get in some long training runs well ahead of race day, and adjust your thinking to run strategically with the goal of finishing, not of running fast. You have access here to some folks with rich long run experience. Let them guide you. I'm more of an example of how not to.
On a more positive note, I like half marathons, 15K and 10 Mile races. They're challenging enough, and fun, I'm not ruined for the rest of the day, and best of all, I don't have to change my weekly regimen a lick to fit them in.
 
Lee- First, after my last effort, I don't do Marathons anymore. I just don't have the time nor do I feel the need. Besides, they hurt! (but that might be an artifact of not having the time to prep properly.)
Second, if you want to do a first marathon, do at least 2 things better than I did: get in some long training runs well ahead of race day, and adjust your thinking to run strategically with the goal of finishing, not of running fast. You have access here to some folks with rich long run experience. Let them guide you. I'm more of an example of how not to.
On a more positive note, I like half marathons, 15K and 10 Mile races. They're challenging enough, and fun, I'm not ruined for the rest of the day, and best of all, I don't have to change my weekly regimen a lick to fit them in.
Thanks for the feedback. We'll see how it goes, but if I find I don't have the time, will, or ability to run a marathon in the next year or two, I like your approach of sticking to races that don't involve any modification of one's fitness regimen. I would imagine a three-hour training run would pretty much knock me out for the rest of the day. I'm about to head out for my first 10-miler now. Once I can do that, then yes, a half, or a 10-miler, become tangible possibilities I could potentially run anytime I want to, with little or no thought to prep or training protocol . . .
 
I can't even think of running a marathon right now. I ran half marathon distance a couple months back and it took me 3 hours, with a 10 minute stop in the middle. Imagine how slow I'd be for a full marathon... That would be brutal. Maybe once I get my speed back up, but right now I really don't see myself running any higher than a 15k right now. I was hoping to have been able to be ready this year for half marathons this year and full marathons next year, but this pf has slowed down and delayed my training.
 
Well, did 9.3 miles, didn't make it to 10 on today's run. The last two miles were not fun, and the overall pace was 11mm, which felt terrible. I had to stop several times and stretch out the legs. This is the first time it hasn't been fun in a long while and I don't like running when it's not fun. I'm probably at least a good one to two months out from having 10 miles be fun. I had better stick to the 6-8 mile range for a while, at 9-10 mm paces, and build up more slowly, like I had been doing. It was a useful experience though, because it definitely convinced me I don't want to run any races if they're not going to be fun. That is, if I can't run them relaxedly and at a decent pace. Which basically means if I can't do a 20-mile training run and have it be fun, I'm not going to tack on another 6.2 miles of strain just to say I did a marathon.
 
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Another favorite workout of mine is stair climbing but I have to be very careful when I do stairs I have to be very mindful of my posture.
I'm wondering if maintaining good posture is harder while stair climbing vs. on a stairmaster. I lucked out and found a 10 yr old club model for cheap on Craiglist. Cleaned it up, and love it for those rainy days! I usually wear socks, and try not to use the handles, and have a little TV set up at eye level. However, I can see how real stairs would definitely be more challenging.
 
Yah, seems bizarre not to have run the same distance or more before you race it, but then if you're just racing to finish, it would be a bit anti-climatic if you've already run a marathon distance in training several times already. And if you're doing a 20-mile training run, wouldn't there be a temptation to run another 6.2 miles to see if you can do it? Oh well, nothing I have to worry about until next year, at the earliest. I'm still building up to the 10-mile at 10mm pace milestone--hopefully I get there sometime soon.
It would be very rare to find anyone that has completed a marathon training run prior to their first marathon. I came close with a couple of 24 mile runs, but there was no need to add another 2 miles to those runs. You kind of want your first marathon to be your first marathon. Shooting for my first barefoot marathon is like doing my first marathon all over again. I hope to complete a 22 mile long training run before this marathon. Now, the shorter distance races I would recommend running that distance prior to running the race, especially barefoot, although I failed to do that also.
 
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Well, did 9.3 miles, didn't make it to 10 on today's run. The last two miles were not fun, and the overall pace was 11mm, which felt terrible. I had to stop several times and stretch out the legs. This is the first time it hasn't been fun in a long while and I don't like running when it's not fun. I'm probably at least a good one to two months out from having 10 miles be fun. I had better stick to the 6-8 mile range for a while, at 9-10 mm paces, and build up more slowly, like I had been doing. It was a useful experience though, because it definitely convinced me I don't want to run any races if they're not going to be fun. That is, if I can't run them relaxedly and at a decent pace. Which basically means if I can't do a 20-mile training run and have it be fun, I'm not going to tack on another 6.2 miles of strain just to say I did a marathon.

Lee, you seem torn between "I'm a recreational runner" (your words) and "I'm a goal driven sob with a propensity to compete with myself" (my words). Now perhaps those two lines of thinking aren't as at odds as they appear, and perhaps my characterization is way off, but it makes me wonder whether your goals are at odds. Please take this the right way, as my intention isn't to be rude in any way.
 
Lee, you seem torn between "I'm a recreational runner" (your words) and "I'm a goal driven sob with a propensity to compete with myself" (my words). Now perhaps those two lines of thinking aren't as at odds as they appear, and perhaps my characterization is way off, but it makes me wonder whether your goals are at odds. Please take this the right way, as my intention isn't to be rude in any way.

Ha! You nailed my ambivalence I think, Hawkbilly, and I thank you for that. During the first year of consistent exercise, I was fighting nagging injuries (left foot, left elbow, left shoulder), just trying to get back into shape, and enjoying watching the weight come off, slowly but surely, as my body began reverting back to the way it used to look. I guess that was motivation enough, despite some set-backs and frustration along the way. Then this last spring I started tuning in here more regularly, interacting with other runners--many of them much more accomplished than me, and that got me thinking about running more seriously. At about the same time, my metatarsals started cooperating, so I could begin to push pace and distance a bit. (I also began to push the weights a bit at this time too, but there’s little real joy to strength-training for me). As I began to push the running, I began studying up on running for the first time—biomechanics, training protocols, history of, and so on. A few weeks ago, when I was finally able to run for an hour at 10mm pace, or perhaps it was a few weeks before that when I ran 5 miles on chipseal at 9mm pace, I began to get a glimpse of my former, fit and active self, and it felt great to feel my body moving well through space again. My thoughts became clearer. I really need to be fit in order to function in life. At the same time, the longer runs recalled a time when I had little and big adventures on an almost daily basis. The runs were nice stand-ins. I also appreciate how during the longer runs I get into a deep meditative zone that's just not possible on the shorter runs.

So I became hungry for more than just general fitness. I guess it’s true, over the last month or so, I’ve found myself wanting to become a runner, not just a barefooter who runs. The last time I ran consistently, 2000-2003, I ran exactly five miles three times a week in Chicago. I never thought about going further, about form, about pace, and so forth. In short, I didn’t think like a runner, I just ran as part of my weekly fitness routine. But now I find myself thinking, ‘hey, what would it be like to run out to that lake and back?’ Or ‘how far up and down the river can I go?’ Or ‘hey, what would it be like to run way over to the St. Croix.’ I spend time on Google Maps mapping out the best routes. I also think about form, different surfaces, and the more zen-like or artful elements of running. But perhaps most of all, it’s the ‘little adventure’ aspect of running I like best, and for that I need the longer, circuitous or out-and-back runs. Last week, on my failed 10-miler, I ran along a road where I set out on my first bicycle day-trip, in something like seventh grade, and got a whiff of that early restlessness and curiosity. I don't have any real urge to race, although I will probably attempt a marathon if I can get my mileage up to where I want it to be, but I do like the challenge of first, getting my runs up to the 90-minute range, and then, eventually, doing a 2-3 hour run every week, having a little adventure early Saturday or Sunday morning when everyone else is asleep. It would have to be fun, not arduous, so that's recreational, but I guess I would also be disappointed if I didn't eventually reach those goals too, so there's a performance aspect to it too, right? I think without both elements--fun runs with goals, or at least with destinations--it will be very hard to continue on with settled life. I would probably have to become a park ranger or something.

Anyway, sorry for the long post (as usual) but I’m on my forth day without running and I’m just about ready to burst. If you have any more insights that will help me understand myself, or just general commentary, don’t hesitate. It’s not that easy to offend me, unless you talk about my mother.
 
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BL, I think you just described me almost to a T. Running used to be a chore for me, not something I liked per say. I never thought about increasing distances. Now though I think about all the little things of running, I want to get better so I can run a half or full marathon or farther. But I only like to compete with myself anymore. Like yesterday I was able to conquer a couple of hills that normally kick my butt. For me that was a goal that I was hoping to accomplish. I did it, so now my big hill that whips my butt and that Jen and Mike are going on with me tomorrow is my next goal to beat. But really, I just really enjoy running hills and it's fun for me. Anyhow, I think I just spun off topic here...
 
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Yah, we're definitely living parallel BFR lives! From injuries, to motivations, to training changes . . .

Topics are just an excuse to continue the conversation . . .

Okay...Looks like I probably missed it, but whats up with your avatar Lee?
Is that your foot?
 
Sorry, kind of in a pissy mood today with the running lay-off. So I changed my photo to when I had hookworm in 2007. I think I almost prefer that to minor running injuries.
Aaah indeed......that's never fun....what is the motive for the lay-off today?
 
Aaah indeed......that's never fun....what is the motive for the lay-off today?
Well, my left foot has been achy since last week's runs. So I'm beginning to suspect that the ITBS was somehow an effect of that, since the knee only felt strained while running, not while walking or at rest, while the foot continues to ache a bit. I think perhaps in my mileage build-up I provoked another stress reaction in my foot. But maybe the ITBS issue has been caused by both my left foot making the leg a bit off kilter and the ITB having to deal with increased mileage. I dunno. Won't know how the ITB is doing until I run again, but before that I'm going to rest the foot until it stops aching. Then it'll be the old one-step-back, two-steps-forward routine, reducing mileage and then building it back up again, this time even more slowly than before. It's pretty frustrating, things were going so well, and I was beginning to recover my pathetic jock pride. It's going to be hard to go back to 30-to-40-minute runs. I did get a foam roller and a compression band, and I've been looking into some warm-up and prevention stuff, like you. I hate being so meticulous about something as simple as running, but I guess if you want to do the longer distances, a little more prep and planning are in order.

How's your running been going lately? Are you still keeping your mileage down? Or has the ITBS cleared up completely? This is getting to be a mammoth thread.
 
Yikes! I just read my comments from the first page. I suggested that it wasn't worth risking injury and jeopardizing your running routine. What a fool! A week or two later I made a sudden push towards higher mileage, and then ignored signs from my left foot that it was getting to be too much. I hope I never ignore a minor niggle again.
 
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