Concurrent Strength Training & Running 2015: Eight-Week Workout Cycle IV

Ha, hey, didn't mean to sound antagonistic or testy. I just wanted to state my case clearly, to amplify the usefulness of the concerned comments. The various suggestions and counterarguments have really helped sharpen my thinking on this, and have helped guide me in my amateur internet searches. I think if it weren't for the clicking/popping/locking, I might also conclude that it's best just to leave it alone, but from what I've read, it is probably unhealthy to allow the joint to remain in this condition. The pain has largely dissipated because I am not running or walking much, but I don't think that indicates any kind of repair or recovery. Just means the damaged tissue, or rather, the neighboring bone tissue, hasn't been irritated as much lately, but the cartilage is still damaged and will continue to get worse over time. This has been the trend up until now, although there have been several variables at play, so it's hard to be sure exactly what is going on.

Still, it kind of gives me the heebie jeebies to think of them poking tubes into the interior of my knee joint. Recalls that scene in Papillon. And I don't like the idea of them removing a part of me, even if it's damaged and causing further damage. But it is outpatient surgery, and it's non-elective so I think insurance will cover most of it, and it's very low risk.

Anyway, any counterarguments more finely focused to the particulars of my case would be greatly appreciated. I still haven't made up my mind on this, and it would be great to have a maximal amount of background knowledge under my belt when I see the superdoc a week from Monday. It will help me make a final decision, whether or not he recommends the same treatment options that the second doc recommended.

Don't mean to be nosy, but I like seeing what others' home gym solutions are.

 

My case is pretty similar to Ronnie B's: https://www.thebarefootrunners.org/threads/end-of-the-road.18473/

Three weeks later, still no response.

 

Right, but until Ronnie B gets any sort of response, I don't see the point in posting a variation on his theme. Seems like the docs aren't interested or are unable to address this sort of issue. My idea was to wait for a response, and then, based on that, delve more into the specifics of my case if they weren't addressed in the response to Ronnie's query. Because basically, we have the same problem: cartilage tear and some degree of osteoarthritis, with at least one overlapping solution proposed--stem cell therapy. I would expect any doc's response would refer, at least in passing, to surgery options as well. But just digging around the internet, I think I've become generally aware of what the medical options and opinions are. It's funny to think a month ago I didn't even know what meniscus cartilage was. In any case, at this point, I'm mostly interested in how people who are not doctors, and who have not followed surgery recommendations for the same issue, have progressed. I also appreciate folks like BA offering up his opinion or intuitions even though he doesn't have this issue, or Dutchie's suggestion, even though his damage was caused differently. And I appreciate your findings on walking versus running, even though it wasn't clear to me what the recommendation would be for me based on those findings. It's very useful to get these alternative perspectives! It's unfortunate the Ask Docs didn't respond. The ones TJ has gathered tend to think outside the box, so it would've been interesting to hear their take on this issue, no doubt. In any case, thanks for the suggestion.

 

Thanks for the responses!

Still doubtful, but I'll give it a shot. Mis' well wait till I get the recommendations of the third doc though, for thoroughness. Are any of the BRS docs orthopedists? The Chiros tend to think of everything in terms of kinetic chains and muscle imbalances.

Here's an interesting exchange between a commentator and Dr. Mark (http://naturalrunningcenter.com/2013/05/06/video-the-principles-natural-running/):

I rarely have knee pain except for when I stop running for months and then start again then the joint feels sore for a few days. My question is am I doing serious damage to my knee by running with no cartilage that may affect me later? By the way I’m almost 56 years old.
Reply
MarkC
February 16, 2015 at 12:22 am
Randy if the cartilage is staying good and no pain then you are good. meniscus likes loading and if done biomechanically correct it will keep it robust and healthy. congrats on the IM finishes! Mark

This seems to jibe with my experience and BA's observations/intuitions. It's interesting that Dr. Mark says that the meniscus likes loading.

Most of those posts were about acute tears. Mine is degenerative. Some of the people had their condition worsen with repairs or meniscectomies where a large part of the cartilage was cut away. I don't think all orthopedists are created equal. It's probably like the Amazon customer reviews, where someone with a bad experience is much more likely to respond.

Again, there's a difference between arthroscopic surgery for osteoarthritis and for meniscus tears. The influential study comparing sham versus real arthroscopic surgery was for the former. My osteoarthritis, from what I've understood so far, has been caused by the degeneration of my meniscus cartilage, which has exposed the articular cartilage and caused it to wear away. Plus, arthroscopic surgery is kind of a blanket term. It describes a minimally invasive technique using tiny cameras and surgical tools. It doesn't tell you exactly what was done in each instance.

PRP or something similar sounds promising, but probably works best for younger athletes with acute injuries. I would be happy to give it a shot though, if that's what the third doc ends up recommending. Might be out-of-pocket though. Still worth it of course.

If you have the ceiling space, I'm not sure why you'd want to do them seated. I only do seated presses out of necessity, or out of embarrassment, since I could do them outside I guess. I also form a tripod, but with feet wider, bracing against the power rack, but I still have trouble getting stable.

 

Yah, I agree. That's part of the reason I'm willing to give up running immediately; to conserve the joint as much as possible. My understanding is that surgery would be to remove whatever is causing the popping/locking, which in turn may be damaging my articular cartilage.

In any case, thanks for the links! More food for thought and background information going into my appointment. The more questions I can ask the doc the better.

Good luck with the power rack!