Concurrent Strength Training & Running 2015: Eight-Week Workout Cycle IV

Discussion in 'Training Information/Training Regimens' started by Bare Lee, Jun 20, 2015.

  1. Abide

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    You can do pull downs and chest supported rows on that thing, its very functional!

    Looks like a perfectly simple setup!

    Also glad to hear your running the DP50 again.
     
  2. Bare Lee

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    Looks good BA. Like Abide says, the simplicity is nice. In fact, I've been thinking about re-organizing my set-up so the few things I actually use are more easily accessible, and the things I never use are either backgrounded or put in storage. A nice simple space helps clear the mind. It's like that Stronglifts guy's gym.

    One thing you might try on the rack for dampening is cutting up an old inner tube and affixing it with electrical tape. That's what I did on my old bench rack.

    I like your pencil-on-a-string innovation. I've been experimenting with pen-on-the-jacuzzi-cover variations. Sometimes I put the pen to the left of my Excel doc, sometimes below (as I'm facing it)

    A whole week without any meniscus tissue issues discussion. Nice. I've actually read up on it a bit more, but nothing really new. There are good arguments from both the pro- and anti-surgery camps. Anyway, thanks especially to the last few links Sid posted, I feel like I'm pretty well informed now going into my appointment next week, and will be able to ask apposite questions. Then, depending on what the doc says, I may have to read up a bit more before making any treatment decisions. So glad the second doc gave the green light to squats. Even though my right knee pops after virtually every rep, they seem to make my knees feel more solid the next day. It seems to me you really could just do squats and deadlifts for free weights, and train the upper body purely with bodyweight exercises if you had to--pullups, dips, inverted rows, and push-ups at various clines.

    Edit:
    Reading this over lunch: http://muscleandbrawn.com/making-a-...rt-iii-sets-and-reps-and-how-to-perform-them/

    Seems like a decent endorsement of my current routine, but I think next week I may try 3 x 5 for every workout, increasing the load each workout by one pound for the squat and deadlift, and 1/2 pound for the other lifts, if I'm able to. Besides the fantastic simplicity of this sort of Reg Park-based protocol, and the motivational factor of being able to increase the load, however slightly, from workout to workout, it would be a mental relief to get rid of the eight-rep sets and, as I begin to come to grips with my apparent age-related limitations, I like the idea of getting rid of the more stressful three-rep sets. We'll see . . .
     
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  3. Sid

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    Nice find on the link! So 3 sets of 5-12 reps should do the trick?
     
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  4. Abide

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    Ha is this sarcasm?
     
  5. Bare Lee

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    Hmmn, I'm not sure why Abide saw this as sarcasm. Even though it's not really new information for us, I liked how succinctly the article was able to lay out the basic principles, especially this table:

    Guidelines for Compound Exercises
    training goal.........................# of sets.......reps per set........%age of 1RM required
    maximum muscle size ........... 3 ...............6 to 12 ...............75 – 85%
    maximum strength ................ 3 – 7 .........1 to 5 .................85% +
    combined strength and size.... 3 ..............3 to 12 ...............75 – 90%

    I think this further confirms the validity of a weekly wave approach like my 5/8/3 scheme, and I really liked the way it confirmed my intuitions that three sets is about right for each compound exercise. But for some reason, it also made me question the necessity of varying the intensities. Seems to me, that if form is prioritized, then five reps or 85% max is optimal. With the greater intensity of fewer reps, or the fatigue of higher reps, I think there is a tendency for form to degrade a bit at times. But more than anything, I just like the idea of trying an ultra simple set/rep scheme. Mentally, it would make my workouts even more mindless, and it would be cool to track progressive overload workout-to-workout, instead of week-to-week. The only question is if it makes any difference physically, that is, will I progress just as fast without varying the intensities? I'm seriously thinking about making this the experiment for next cycle. I'll probably give it a test run next week, or even starting today.
     
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  6. Abide

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    Sorry I couldn't tell, I thought he was being sarcastic with the ranges haha? Yeah I liked the article too specifically that part you included.

    I know you like to hit all the ranges once a week, do you think there is any validity to running ranges through a cycle? A bodybuilding cycle, a strength cycle, an endurance cycle etc...?
     
  7. Bare Lee

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    Well, I've never tried it. In general, it's hard for me to think outside of a training week. And since most strength adaptations happen within 48-72 hours, at least for intermediate lifters like us, I wonder how cumulative the gains in week+ mini-cycles would be. At the most, I could see trying something like Wendler's four-week 5/3/1/deload scheme, where the rep ranges or set numbers change on a weekly basis. If you did a four-week bodybuilder block, I wonder if the gains would last through a subsequent four-week strength block. It would be interesting if you tried something like this.

    For me, I have no desire to try a bodybuilder protocol. I don't like higher repped sets, and I don't like training to fatigue, or all those other bodybuilder tricks like slow eccentrics, TUT, etc. I'm most motivated by simply getting gradually stronger. I like the feeling of being strong better than the look. So that's why I'm thinking of cutting out the 8RM day, even though Nuckols makes a compelling argument for how a little hypertrophy can improve strength gains. For the last few weeks, I've just felt this urge to simplify a bit more, so I think I'm really going to try a simple 3x5 protocol every day. Add a half-pound to all the upper body lifts each workout, and a pound to the squat and SLDL. After a while I might miss the rep count variety, we'll see, but I like your idea of always trying something a little new each cycle. Even if it's a miss, it keeps things interesting. Another advantage of basically doing the same damn thing every workout is that missing a workout or two doesn't lead to any programming complications. You simply pick up where you left off, or repeat the same workout as the last one if more than a few days have passed.

    So, for the squat for example, I would go 3 x 5 x 210/211/212 for a M/W/F workout week, and then depending on how Friday's 212 felt, I'd either start the next week, on Monday, at 212 again, for 3 x 5 x 212/213/214, or I'd add yet another pound and go 213/214/215. And of course, if the load starts to feel too heavy, I simply lower the increment to a half-pound increase each workout, or sit at the same load until it starts to feel easier. So, it's really an extremely simple protocol, and it would be very easy to remember the loads workout to workout. Whereas right now, it's kind of hard to remember what the 5RM load should be after a week has passed. I need to print out my little Excel sheets for each workout week in order to keep track of everything. I don't actually have to make the calculations, of course, as that's all done automatically for me by the spreadsheet, up to the end of the year unless I type in a different 1RM value.

    Anyway, the short answer to your question is I've never thought too much about different training blocks. They seem like they're more for advanced lifters, or competitors building up to a meet or beauty contest. I know it's a popular protocol for serious lifters, so there must be something to it, but I just question whether it's really necessary for intermediate guys like us who already struggle with being consistent for more than a few weeks at a time.

    What's your Leadville schedule by the way? I find myself getting nervous for you.

    Hey what's your opinion about stiff-soled bike shoes? Right now I'm using my Merrell Bare Access.

    Hey Sid, what was the site where you found those instructional swimming videos? I'm already getting a little psyched by the possibility of learning to swim better this winter.

    Had a nice birthday sashimi dinner last night. I never get tired of turning 21 each year.
     
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  8. Abide

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    Yeah you, Nuckols and a couple of other writers have me thinking about going higher rep for a little bit initially after Leadville. Part of the reason is to give everything a little break from heavy lifting and running. And the other part is vanity. I wouldn't mind building a little more upper body mass. Plus I think it might be good just doing 3 x 10 protocol of medium weights for the joint rehabilitation effect and the pump is kind of fun too.

    The simplicity would be nice too. I like doing the 3x5 or EMOM rep schemes but I feel beat up sometimes. It's hard to tell if that is form the lifting or aerobic work though.

    So I'll think about it while I am running Leadville, its a great time to ponder this kind of stuff.


    Hey Happy Birthday! How's it feel to be able to drink legally?

    To be honest I have never used clip-in's for biking so I am not really sure? It scares me from the mountain biking perspective and my road biking is pretty limited and I think it would be overkill. I usually commute in my lunas in the summer but I tend to mountain bike with a older pair of Altras or Minimus. I have tried a couple of pairs of hard biking shoes on at the store and none have ever fit that well, they never seem to be wide enough. So I don't really have any experience. If you do give them a whirl I'd be interested to hear about it from a barefooters perspective.

    I fly out tomorrow, the mountain bike race is the following Saturday and then the run is the saturday after that. Haha I am trying to stay calm but it's hard. Its really tough not to get nervous up there because its such a high energy event. Not at all like the laid back ultras I normally do. I'll keep you guys updated as much as possible. I am hauling my bike over with me after I had some issues finding a rental. It ended up being the same price to get a nice bike travel bag as it would have been to pay the rental gougers fees and its free to check it as luggage too. So that is one less thing to worry about. Next week I plan to ride a couple of times to get used to the altitude and mainly just relax. Sweeney and the Runs are gonna be up there and there is a beer mile planned for Thursday, but I think I might decide to be responsible for once and maybe just do a beer mile jog.
     
  9. Sid

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  10. Bare Lee

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    Yeah you, Nuckols and a couple of other writers have me thinking about going higher rep for a little bit initially after Leadville. Part of the reason is to give everything a little break from heavy lifting and running. And the other part is vanity. I wouldn't mind building a little more upper body mass. Plus I think it might be good just doing 3 x 10 protocol of medium weights for the joint rehabilitation effect and the pump is kind of fun too.

    Well, depending on how strictly you follow the percentages, I haven't found the higher rep, lower weight sets any easier than the lower rep, higher intensity sets. You're just trading one sort of challenge in for another.

    I also question a little bit, given our training styles, how much extra hypertrophy you'd get with higher rep sets. Those bodybuilders are also training to failure and doing slow eccentrics with those higher rep sets. And I've read Arnold didn't start doing those kinds of things until he had already packed on a lot of mass with a simple Reg Park 5x5 routine. So I don't know. I would only do it if you enjoy it just as much or more as a more strength-focused routine. In my case, I simply don't like higher reps, so, since it probably doesn't matter too much, given my goals, I've decided to lay off the eight-rep sets for a while. I will probably come back to them at some point, but right now I'm really digging the idea of having an ultra simple daily routine instead of a weekly wave routine. Just do the same damn thing every workout so you can really get a sense of progress, but also so that you have great flexibility when things come up.

    But I agree, the pump is fun, and so I've been thinking quick sets of higher rep assistance at the end of workouts, with easy loads, when I have time, would satisfy that itch, and also get in a little more conditioning towards the end.

    Just stay away from the tanning booths and bikini bottoms, please.

    The simplicity would be nice too. I like doing the 3x5 or EMOM rep schemes but I feel beat up sometimes. It's hard to tell if that is form the lifting or aerobic work though.

    I don't know, but you're doing a lot of hard racing. It can take up to a week to recover from some of the stuff you're doing.

    So I'll think about it while I am running Leadville, its a great time to ponder this kind of stuff.

    Hey Happy Birthday! How's it feel to be able to drink legally?

    It's great to be able to pee extra without having to make lame excuses.

    To be honest I have never used clip-in's for biking so I am not really sure? It scares me from the mountain biking perspective and my road biking is pretty limited and I think it would be overkill. I usually commute in my lunas in the summer but I tend to mountain bike with a older pair of Altras or Minimus. I have tried a couple of pairs of hard biking shoes on at the store and none have ever fit that well, they never seem to be wide enough. So I don't really have any experience. If you do give them a whirl I'd be interested to hear about it from a barefooters perspective.

    When I was traveling by bicycle, at some point I got proper cycling shoes, the kind where using the clip-ins is optional. Since I was traveling with a heavy load, and not always on the best roads, I needed to be able to put my foot/feet on the ground quickly, so since that time, I've always used strapless toe clips, just to keep my feet secure and properly positioned on the pedal, but easy to get out of if I have to stop all-of-a-sudden. From a barefooter's perspective, I would think you'd still want a relatively soft sole, so that the arch muscles have to work, but from an efficiency perspective, I think a stiff sole transfers the power to the pedal better. Since I'm not trying to win any ribbons, I would think developing the arches is more important. Plus, like you say, bike shoes tend to be very narrow and confining. I might even pick up some sandals that are a little more secure than my flip-flops, to keep the feet nice and cool. We should be heading into summer clearance season soon.

    I fly out tomorrow, the mountain bike race is the following Saturday and then the run is the saturday after that. Haha I am trying to stay calm but it's hard. Its really tough not to get nervous up there because its such a high energy event. Not at all like the laid back ultras I normally do. I'll keep you guys updated as much as possible. I am hauling my bike over with me after I had some issues finding a rental. It ended up being the same price to get a nice bike travel bag as it would have been to pay the rental gougers fees and its free to check it as luggage too. So that is one less thing to worry about. Next week I plan to ride a couple of times to get used to the altitude and mainly just relax. Sweeney and the Runs are gonna be up there and there is a beer mile planned for Thursday, but I think I might decide to be responsible for once and maybe just do a beer mile jog.

    Good luck, and yeah, keep us posted if possible. I still laugh when I think about your last race in France, when you cycled 50km the day before.

    Yah, I agree, well-roundedness is ideal, but for me, right now, I'm trying to make sure I do stuff for which I can maintain some motivation and consistency over time. 20+ rep sets would kill me. It's just too much mental effort. I like my workouts to be as relaxing and mindless as possible. I hate it when it feels like a chore or I'm not sure if I can succeed.
     
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  11. Sid

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    I'm finding that something like 5x5 for legs and 3x10 for arms seems to work for me.

    Rack is assembled, but waiting on some parts for weight storage.
     
  12. Sid

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    Moved my bowflex into my weight room, for pull downs. However, it takes up quite a bit of space.

    I think that I might try the tips from this website, so I can just do pullups on the rack.
    http://www.50pullups.com
     
  13. Bare Lee

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    I think I may try to work in some slow eccentrics too, to help wean me off the pulldowns. Thanks for the link.
     
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  14. Sid

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    First workout, a short one, after a long day at work.
    This equipment is awesome! Thanks for the encouragement to get all this stuff.
    The Ohio Power Bar is still great. Somehow the extra 0.5mm diameter and knurling, makes it so the bar doesn't pinch my hands.
    Photos to follow after I get a few more parts, so I'll be able to fit 2 sets of bumpers and change plates on the rack.
     
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  15. Bare Lee

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    Holy crap BA!
     
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  16. BroadArrow

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    yeah, well, um, uh, the weather has been nice? let's list some possible explanations:

    a) i have a 50-mile race coming up and figure i should try to not be a total embarrassment.
    b) abide needs moral support and/or is making me look bad
    c) somebody has to put in your miles for you
    d) i want to try out the consistency thing and see what happens if i actually put in some miles on a regular basis while being super vigilant about any discomfort and not pushing too hard.

    so far, so good other than i'm kind of slow.
     
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  17. Bare Lee

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    Bummer. Hope things go better this weekend!

    I'm glad I checked in on this thread and got your report. I also added one last post for last Saturday.

    As I get back into cycling, I'll be wanting to pick your brain a bit more for training and gear advice.

    Right now I'm thinking of picking up a Specialized Romin Pro saddle on clearance. Any thoughts? I still have the saddle I traveled on, but it seems like it would be good to update after almost 25 years and get one with more room for the privates.
     
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