Training Run Fuel

Discussion in 'Training Information/Training Regimens' started by jldeleon, Oct 29, 2013.

  1. jldeleon

    jldeleon
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    I know you were all dying to know what I eat and drink, before, during and after, my long runs. About 30 minutes before, I eat half a can of smoked oysters and my latest fruit of choice is half a banana -same with afterwards. It turns out, it's just as important what you eat within 45 minutes AFTER you run, as before. I drink a half cup of coffee before and in the equivalent (in Starbucks via form) halfway through - for anti-inflammatory purposes. Halfway through I drink half a package of Emergen-C and half a package of a "green drink" that includes a butt-load of spirulina and algae- I drink the other half at the end (about 20 oz. total).

    Oh, in the middle of my runs, I was eating just some pumpkin seeds, but I have found that's not enough and have started eating date rolls (which are mushed up dates rolled in shredded coconut! PERFECT! Then, I started thinking about how I should grind up my pumpkin seeds and grind that powder into the date rolls! I am too leary of all those energy gels, etc., cuz my stomach is too sensitive so I have to come up with my own stuff! I was also thinking of grinding up quinoa and mashing that into the dates, as well -since quinoa is a complete protein. But, THEN, I remembered how much I hate quinoa in all ways. Though ground up from it's seed form is probably the best way to get the least taste. I wonder what would happen if I ate quinoa seeds whole? I wonder if my stomach would digest them? Hmmmmmm, something to research!
     

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  2. rickwhitelaw

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    Jen, try this - Eat your banana like usual before your run. Take a small water bottle. Eat or drink nothing but occasional sips of water. Run at an easy pace for 2 hours. I bet you will end up with your best run ever. I don't mean to sound harsh, but you don't need all that stuff. Let your body do what it is meant to do.
     
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  3. jldeleon

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    Dude - NO! :) I did not add, that I have worked UP TO that amount of food over time, on purpose, because I was becoming fatigued from not eating enough. That being said, the last two times, drinking that much water at once did not work out well. It was uncomfortable and that Emergen-C has a slight carbonation to it from the minerals so there was a huge air pocket stuck in my stomach - I need to work on sipping more water. Oh, and this is for a 10 mile run.
     

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  4. Hobbit

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    Hi Jen,
    I think it would be a bad idea to mix quinoa into your run fuel or to eat them whole - even more so if you don't like the taste.
    It surely will make you fart like a machine gun during the rest of your run - that's what my husband (who doesn't like the taste either) always tells me when I'm proposing a meal with quinoa in it... :D
     
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  5. rickwhitelaw

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    Jen, I love you like a sister, so it is time for a sibling fight.:) Based on a 10 mile run, or roughly 1.5 to 2 hours (not sure of your pace). Pre run oysters? Way too much salt. During the run - although healthy, that food will divert energy to digestion. I love pumpkin seeds also, but they won't digest in time to help your run. Post run - good, fill up the tank. Bottom line, don't eat while running. Train yourself to burn your own fuel. I agree with you on the water. Much better to sip and a little fizzy electrolyte can make it absorb better. Works well for me, but Emergen-C has a little too much citric acid for my stomach. Now your fatigue could be caused by many other factors than lack of calories. Play with your pace, if you are feeling fatigued, slow down. It will pass. I read this great article by our Dr. Mark last night. I had been doing it anyway but it just confirmed what has been working so well.

    Slow Down To Build the Endurance Engine http://thenaturalbornrunner.com/?p=77
     
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  6. happysongbird

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    Rick, have you been using a heart monitor? I understand this whole concept and have been trying to apply it for about a month now, really enjoying my long easier runs, but I can't bring myself to wear a heart monitor!
     
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  7. Sid

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    I agree that it takes some time to get the body used to longer runs.
     
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  8. Scratch

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    Peanut butter M&Ms, food of the gods and goddesses.
     
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  9. DNEchris

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    Not so much!
     
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  10. rickwhitelaw

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    No, never have. I kind of monitor my effort by my breathing.

    Here I go about my skiing past again. As a back country skier and hiker for years. I quickly learned to slow the pace at altitude, if you exert yourself it takes a long time to recover. Slow and steady with my tiny baby steps always got me to the top first with plenty of energy left over to enjoy the ski down. I just don't know why I waited so long to use the same method for running!
     
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  11. jldeleon

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    Hello big brother!!! :D

    My pace is 15 minute miles on trails, average -but that's just based upon my overall time. Ensuring my pace remains consistent throughout my run may end up being the #1 reason that I end up using a timing device. I'd rather try to run by feel and then just confirm with my time, once in awhile. My regular training trail is pretty flat (as will be my first ultra) so it is pretty easy for me run at a consistent pace on that trail.

    I understand the whole energy diverted to digestion thing - it's one of the reasons I REALLY need to start making sure that I don't run for at least ONE full hour after I eat.

    I have ran multiple 7 milers without eating or drinking. I ran an 8 miler the other week with Mike and didn't drink or eat the entire time. I did not eat on Prepare to Die until mile 9 (thought that was more extreme hiking, than running, at that point in the run). A few months ago, I "forgot" to eat at the mid-way point on a 10 mile run on Wildwood -and I had no food with me. At mile 9ish I thought I was going to die. I became ravenously hungry suddenly, which sent me into a panic attack. I spent mile 9 working on my internal dialogue. "Jen, you're not going to die" "Jen, it's only 2 more miles" "Jen, it's only hunger" "Jen, this is what the ultra books say to do to yourself ON PURPOSE" "Jen, it's good mental training" And lots of deep breathing. During that mile, I started to walk, then ran, walked/ran/walked/ran. Every time I ran, I panicked because I didn't want to burn off any more fuel, but every time I started walking, I panicked, because I knew food was at the end of these last 2 miles. By the end of that mile I had pumped myself back up, mentally, and I had managed to get myself into a super slow, but steady, running pace for the last mile. I lived.

    I agree, the salt in those oysters is high. I would be better off eating my low-sodium tuna, before. The citric acid bothers my stomach a bit, too. There is this really good high-content mineral water that I occasionally buy - perhaps I should just get that, instead -especially since I am not happy about the sugar in the EmergenC, and I can't eat artificial sweetener, either.
     

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  12. Robin

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    the mushed dates in coconut shreds sound really great,gonna try that:D
     
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  13. rickwhitelaw

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    I see what you did there. Just insert older for big.


    That's pretty good considering all the bathroom breaks and tickle sessions with Mike. As you know it is very hard to keep a consistent pace on the trail, but it sure has helped me to make the gap smaller between fast downhill sections and uphill sections. I use a GPS to help me stay slow on the easier terrain and that has given me extra energy for the uphills. Just to clarify, are we talking about your fueling for future Ultras or your immediate goal of a half. Like I said above, I don't think you need all this fueling for a half.

    Perfect. Then you already had the experience and you lived. So you are going for bonk avoidance with your fueling experiments. Great, continue to do so but you can't avoid it every time. Then the mental aspect kicks in. You've been there and got though it, that will prep you for the next time. It's a big experiment physically and mentally, enjoy the ride, it's well worth it.
     
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  14. migangelo

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    you're burning too much sugar. that's why you bonk and have other problems. wear the hr monitor and slow down. frustrating at first but feels great later.
     

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  15. jldeleon

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    If the HR monitor has to touch my bare skin to work -It's a no-go -skin will break out in a festering wound. Can't get a stable GPS connection where I run. So I guess that leaves the metronome. Good enough!
     

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  16. jldeleon

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    And yes, Rick, this is all for future ultramarathons! MUAH-HA-HAAA!
     

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  17. Scratch

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    Seriously enough though, when I was training to run a marathon back in 2009, I needed to figure out a strategy to fuel me after about 2.5 hours of running, which I was finding to be around the point where how much glucose my liver could supply would begin to be outrun by the amount of insulin in my system. Peanut butter M&Ms worked really well for me, I would pack up little ziplock snack bags and I found them easier to consume than GUs and lighter and I had no problem digesting them.

    I also very much agree with those who urge trying to learn to run with the body's own fat for fuel as much as possible. I've always found it remarkable to hear people saying they absolutely have to eat carbs before races like half-marathons and then drink 2 or 3 gatorades during one.

    But for when someone does need to have a way of consuming carbs, try to find something light to carry, and easy to eat and digest. For me, it's peanut butter M&Ms.
     
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  18. Bare Lee

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    Don't you folks know that Jen lives in her own world with its special brand of genius and laws of physics and physiology that apply nowhere else? Not even the idiosyncrasies of Maffetone theory can reach her.

    "Smoked Oysters"?

    "Grinding up quinoa and mashing that into the dates"?

    Bravo my lady, impressive.
     
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  19. DNEchris

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    You, and Ely Dave, have very specific, diabetes related, issues and I applaud your efforts to overcome them.

    I just find peanut butter intolerable in any form - except in deep frozen Reese's pieces :happy:
     
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  20. Tristan

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    I've only eaten mid-run starting this summer, when my long runs were hitting 15+ miles. And except prior to a race I've never eaten anything before (within an hour or so anyhow). During I'd typically have a handful of grapes in my vest pocket and that does me fine for a bit over 20 miles if at a modest intensity. During my marathon, as I mentioned in my report, I upped to dates and that worked well. We are all going to be different in what we want, can tolerate, etc. But that sounds like quite the complex plan you got there! But oysters? [​IMG]
    :D
     
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