Still looking for anti-friction material for speedwork
- Thread starter kozz
- Start date
Kozz....you should def. document your experiments with pics.....
especially if there is any blood involved
especially if there is any blood involved
I just don't think you are going to find anything and I would strongly advise against any chemicals on your feet. They might work temporarily, but they will do more harm in the long run (pun intended).
Is it possible to vary your workouts or conditions to let your skin heal and toughen? I don't know your routine, your history, or goals, so it is hard to comment. There are plenty of fast barefoot runners on here that can give you advice, I am certainly not one of them.
Don't get me wrong, I admire fast runners and your dedication, but is losing skin like that on every run worth it?
Is it possible to vary your workouts or conditions to let your skin heal and toughen? I don't know your routine, your history, or goals, so it is hard to comment. There are plenty of fast barefoot runners on here that can give you advice, I am certainly not one of them.
Don't get me wrong, I admire fast runners and your dedication, but is losing skin like that on every run worth it?
Both. I want to see the feet with shellac, and after a good shellacking.Pics from before or after the run?
I agree with Rick though. I find it hard to believe that the feet won't adapt over time, if given time to heal. I've seen some pretty gnarly feet on my travels, and Nick has seen even tougher in Afghanistan.
I know I've dropped off the 'barefoot' train, but I fail to see the point in this endeavour. If you want to go fast, barefoot, then take the time to build the skin to a point at which it can support the load. If the point is to go fast, now, find a tool that protects your tissues and reduces risk for serious damage. The skin has limits to protect your underlying structures. If your soles can't handle the workout bare, it could be that your foot structures can't handle that load bare yet either. But, I'm no scientist; so what do I know?
Plus, if BOTH Gentile and Jason recommend minshoes, I'd listen. They have quite a bit of running and barefoot running experience between them.
Plus, if BOTH Gentile and Jason recommend minshoes, I'd listen. They have quite a bit of running and barefoot running experience between them.
It's like giving your kids advice. They don't understand the value until they've had the opportunity to make the dumb mistakes. Sometimes you just have to step back and let them stick their tongue on the frozen pole. Who knows, maybe their experience will be different.
NickW
Guest
I ripped skin off my tongue by doing that as a kid... Scared me so bad! Lol! I was in 1st or 2nd grade when I did it. Lol!Sometimes you just have to step back and let them stick their tongue on the frozen pole. Who knows, maybe their experience will be different.
I'm not sticking my tongue to anybody's pole, no matter who suggests it.It's like giving your kids advice. They don't understand the value until they've had the opportunity to make the dumb mistakes. Sometimes you just have to step back and let them stick their tongue on the frozen pole. Who knows, maybe their experience will be different.
a few clarifications
) I've been doing speedwork all year, and running barefoot over 3 years - I've got the skin built up
) track is like honey badger, it don't care how thick or tough your skin is, it will peel it off anyway. Usually starts at the base of the little toe.
) cold weather and rain make things worse, whether on pavement or track, it's a seasonal trouble. Not so bad during summer.
) I run faster barefoot, for reasons I'm still figuring out, biomechanical things, mainly involving balance, so minimalist shoes are out. No offense to the old-timers but they're distance runners, AFAIK. If I have to sacrifice my skin-on-ground balance advantage, I'll have to replace it with the leverage advantage of spikes.
the shellac was useless. It liquefied. So shellac + epoxy would be useless too, it would end up being epoxy stuck to a liquid surface and fall off.
any solution must be water-proof, all tapes have failed quickly.
I am convinced it is up to me to invent the solution to this, and with all of you telling me to give up, I know I will succeed. I don't have a mad scientist avatar for nothing.
) I've been doing speedwork all year, and running barefoot over 3 years - I've got the skin built up
) track is like honey badger, it don't care how thick or tough your skin is, it will peel it off anyway. Usually starts at the base of the little toe.
) cold weather and rain make things worse, whether on pavement or track, it's a seasonal trouble. Not so bad during summer.
) I run faster barefoot, for reasons I'm still figuring out, biomechanical things, mainly involving balance, so minimalist shoes are out. No offense to the old-timers but they're distance runners, AFAIK. If I have to sacrifice my skin-on-ground balance advantage, I'll have to replace it with the leverage advantage of spikes.
the shellac was useless. It liquefied. So shellac + epoxy would be useless too, it would end up being epoxy stuck to a liquid surface and fall off.
any solution must be water-proof, all tapes have failed quickly.
I am convinced it is up to me to invent the solution to this, and with all of you telling me to give up, I know I will succeed. I don't have a mad scientist avatar for nothing.
You need to invent some sort of substance that's injectable into your bloodstream and is produced by your own body that oozes out of your pores and adjusts its protective qualities to the amount of damage being done to your feet at the time. Believe it or not, I actually had to create a digital mock-up of something like this years ago for an industrial designer who was creating concepts for the "shoe of the future."
I know. I'm of little help. I agree. Track will tear your feet up. Most of my training is fast interval track workouts. I've opted for minimal shoes.
I know. I'm of little help. I agree. Track will tear your feet up. Most of my training is fast interval track workouts. I've opted for minimal shoes.
While I normally run distances, I also do a fair amount of sprinting as part of crosstraining. I did an entire season of Crossfit Endurance; most barefoot, some on a variety of tracks. The only solution that was somewhat effective was the bowling patches/liquid skin I linked to earlier. Give it a shot.
Someone else earlier mentioned Zola because she ran barefoot on the track. I believe she used some sort of tape and it was just on the toes, especially the little ones.
Just throwing this out there. This is not a suggestion, you made it clear what you are after and this is not it. This is what I would do. I would run 80 secs until I had no problems, then up it to 75, 70 and 65, staying at each step until I had good enough control to not have issues at that level. Of course depending on what I would be training for, I may proceed to finish my current target wearing spikes and switch to this method in the off season.
Hey Kozz, I wasn't suggesting you give up. Now with your history, especially barefoot running for 3 years, I know that you know your feet the best and you have probably gotten all the foot conditioning you can get (if not, maybe someone has some advanced foot conditioning techniques). Also, with your experience you have probably have decent form, so adjustments there might not help.
What about terrain adjustments? Do you always have to do your speedwork on this rough track? Can you avoid the cold or wet conditions.
Back to something you can put on your feet. I guess running in socks won't work? I'm trying to think of the stickiest substance I have encountered that is hard to get off. I thought of pine sap for the sticky layer and then something over the pine sap maybe a thin strip of cloth or leather. Or maybe just some dirt or leaves? I don't know, consider it.
That actually worked, the trick was to use long, 5mm-wide strips of (real) duct tape.
Peeling at the edge of the forefoot is harder to manage. I tried supergluing a thin leather patch to it, but the track sneered and owned it within 200 meters. I've got some other ideas for that.
Haven't tried this myself, but this is a waxy coating that's supposed to protect a dog's foot pads. Worth a shot.
http://www.thedogoutdoors.com/mushers-secret-paw-pad-protection-wax.html
http://www.thedogoutdoors.com/mushers-secret-paw-pad-protection-wax.html
For dry weather, I've got it figured out.
First I cut a thin leather patch to cover the outside edge of the forefoot and part of the 5th toe, and stuck it in place with future glue, which is super glue in a bottle with a brush.
To prevent it from peeling, I then mummy-wrapped the 5th toe in thin-sliced duct tape, covering the leading edge of the patch in the process.
It held up through 1600m of repeats and would have through many more, but I had to stop due to cold weather.
Not tested in the rain yet.
First I cut a thin leather patch to cover the outside edge of the forefoot and part of the 5th toe, and stuck it in place with future glue, which is super glue in a bottle with a brush.
To prevent it from peeling, I then mummy-wrapped the 5th toe in thin-sliced duct tape, covering the leading edge of the patch in the process.
It held up through 1600m of repeats and would have through many more, but I had to stop due to cold weather.
Not tested in the rain yet.
