Maffetone Method...what's your experience with it?

#81
I realized something last

I realized something last night. Since I started training via Maffetone method, I have never ran untill tired and stopped based off of energy levels. All my runs have been restricted by time constraints, so now Im very curious as to how far I could go given enough time. Oh, and with food and water on hand as well... Ill have to sign up for one of those timed endurance races to see.
 
#82
Chaserwilliams wrote: Ill

Chaserwilliams said:
Ill have to sign up for one of those timed endurance races to see.
Click to expand...

Just itching for a reason aren't you! Do you think you might be back up to ultra levels, or is that really what you want to see?
 
#83
Lol, yeah, I dont think I

Lol, yeah, I dont think I lost too much from this injury. Besides, the timed event wont be for awhile so Ill have more time to ready myself for it. I think theres one somewhere in Texas towards the later part of 2012, so I might shoot for it.
 
#84
Hi thereJust got started

Hi there

Just got started with maffetone myself, just a few weeks into it, and only really starting to run 1 hr a day / 6 days per week, so hope to see some improvements within a few weeks.

I live in a pretty undulating area in the UK, so am doing a fair bit on the treadmill to start with, due to the constant walking with the hills, but hope as the aerobic fitness increases the hills will become doable without having to walk.

I'm proving how poor my aerobic base really is, sitting on around 11.06 per mile at the moment but I am sure it will improve.

It seems to me, having also read quite a lot of HADD threads too, that you need to get the miles in each week, and ideally be running 6 times per week, which I am doing. I'm aiming for 40 miles per week now and then hopefully extend the longer run of the week and perhaps increase one of the shorter runs as time goes on.

Any one report on their results over a few months, if I can even get down to 9 min miles over the next 3-4 months I'll be happy, exspecially if I can go do a 20 miler at that pace.



Good luck!!
 
#85
11 m/m to start? i don't like

11 m/m to start? i don't like you. i was over 14! im arond 13 now at over a month. no idea how fast and far it will get down. i'm doing it in hopes to run uphill like some of my friends do here. it sucks that i can blow past them downhill but up they leave me like i'm standing still.



i read a good quote yesterday on the maffetone method, which you can apply to many things.

" those who are against it and frustrated by it the most need it the most".
 
#86
Haha, good quote Mike!

Haha, good quote Mike!
 
#87
So I went to Mafetone's site,

So I went to Mafetone's site, figured out my max hr...........Now I really am not and will never be an elite runner. I run to finish. I am an old f*rt...my max hr according to his 180 formula is 109!!! I can't walk to the bathroom and have a hr that low!

But I can run 4 miles on sidewalks/roads, I can hike/run 6+ miles on trails (haven't tried farther) And I'll bet you (some) of the hair on my chinny chin chin that my hr is 140 or better without killing me.

There is no way I'll be able to run a 13k trail run next spring at 109 if I want to finish before dark.



Would someone please explain this paradox?



Lee
 
#88
I am quite curious too Lee. 

I am quite curious too Lee. Please some of you Maffetone believers help inform us. I couldn't walk down the street at 109 and I don't know how anyone other than elite athletes could be expected to do so.
 
#89
Mig - I'm with you, man!  My

Mig - I'm with you, man! My first taste of HR training last night and I had to keep it to about a 14mm to stay under 145 and then I ran the rest in zone 3, which for me was a max of 165 and that was about a 12mm. This was in a race, so it was painful to watch people go by that I'd usually be leaving in the dust! 41min 5k...I haven't run a 5k in over 30min since August. Oh well... "No sacrafice...no VICTORY!!!" (That's also what I tell myself when people come back with tasty smelling fast foot while I'm boiling my Quenoa at work!)

Lee - I think you can get lost in the numbers and even then, it's probably just a theory based on the avge target group. His calculation method alone alludes to the fact that everyone is different. I've often heard of using a conversational pace as a guide if you don't have a monitor. Last night, I noticed that under my target heart rate of 145, I could run and breathe through my nose without getting out of breath and I could carry on a conversation without huffing and puffing.(also how I was running back when I started and was loosing weight running.) I plan to use that to help me know where I am so I'm not watching my rate on my watch every 10sec! Maybe that would be a better measuring stick for you to back into your target heart rate. After about a half mile to a mile, see what your heart rate is when you're running a "Chatty Pace" and use that rate. Maybe some of the more experienced Maffetone Method practitioners could weigh in... I totally agree though... 109 doesn't make any sense.

-Jonny
 
#90
I remember reading many years

I remember reading many years ago an interview with one of the elite runners in the Boston marathon, maybe the winner. When asked about sweating he said he trained himself not to sweat. For years I wondered how one goes about that but with something like the Maffetone, maybe it makes sense. Maybe if you do a lot of really slow running, below the level that makes you sweat, eventually you'll be able to run faster without sweating. It probably takes years, though, and you may have to start young.
 
#91
I swear that up untill I

I swear that up untill I turned 19 and stopped running I couldnt remember ever sweating before then. All through middle school and high school I would run 50ish miles per week as fast as I could and I dont recall ever breaking a sweat, and thats in southeast Texas! Of course, being 5'10" and 140lbs of solid bone probablly helped me with the cooling issues, so not much need to sweat.

As far as the conversational pace, or the breathing through the nose pace, they vary greatly from my Maf pace. I can carry a conversation while running an all out mile. I can also breathe through my nose while running an all out mile. BUT I cant run an all out mile within my aerobic HR range.

Before I started Maffetone training my average pace on a run was around 7~8 minutes per mile, and I felt comfortable and could recite poetry if needed. Breathing through my nose was not an issue either. When I started running by my aerobic HR I was slowed to almost 15 minutes per mile for a measly 5 mile run. It was terriblle! But within 3 or 4 months I was running under 10 minutes per mile for a 6 mile run, and could also run much longer distances than I had previsouly thought possiblle. And I still havent bonked as far as physical energy is concerned.

As far as having to keep your HR under 109... Are you really 65+ years old? If so, my hat is off to you for being out running! No matter how your doing it! I hope to be able to continue running for the rest of my years. I dont know what to say in regards to where your HR needs to be, but Maffetone has a Q&A section on his site and Im sure he would be more than willing to help you out.

And regarding people saying that its too "cookie cutter" or "one size fits all" to be realistic, he developed the 180-age(+/-5,10 based on fitness level) after seeing thousands of athletes of all levels and noticing a pattern. Its not something he just pulled out of his ass, lol.

Again, I think the BIGGEST part of the Maffetone training method is the nutritional aspect of it. Without proper nutrition, all the training in the world wont make you excell.
 
#92
migangelo wrote:11 m/m to

migangelo said:
11 m/m to start? i don't like you.
Click to expand...

11 min miles are on the treadmill, and on the flat, but I was looking at an old thread over on Cool Running forum here and it seems like a lot of people who have had some good success have worked some downhill MAF HR paced running to improve leg speed.



So....... I hit my hilly 8 mile route today and actually found that I could jog (very very slowly) some of the uphill sections, and was seeing some 10:40/mile pace on some of the flats. I used the long downhills to add some 'speedwork' but still finished with an average of 12:29/mile overall. The uphills are the problem areas, but I think perhaps that having this undulation will work to my advantage over time, and just hit the flat stuff for when I want to run that bit faster.

As an aside, I have been following the 2 week low carb diet (similar to paleo etc which I enjoyed in the past), and I've lost quite a few pounds, and the niggling hip/groin pain which has bothered me for 4 years is almost gone, a combination of diet and slow aerobic pace running I think.

Anyway, it's all good so far, just looking forward to being able to run 'fast' for the same HR.
 
#93
Chase, I think a few things

Chase, I think a few things got lost in translation.

First, everyone is different, so while Maffetone may not have pulled his calculation out of his ass, it's still just an estimate. You can't apply a calculation like that and have it be spot on for children, elderly, couch potatoes and long time athletes alike and unless you're put through a complete battery of testing, you can't KNOW your zones exactly. I agree it's a good place to start, but as Lee has obviously proven, it's not always accurate. 109bpm isn't a "run"...even if you're from Kenya!!

Second, you're not applying the "conversational pace" correctly and it's just a sugesting as another rough estimate tool. If you're not speaking in the same rhythem and breathing patern as you do when you are sitting or walking, that's not a conversational pace. If you have to break up a sentance to breathe, talk faster than normal or can only get out a few words between breathes, that's NOT a conversational pace. I've seen articles in Men's Health, Runner's world and Active.com alluding to a conversational pace, so this isn't something that I just pulled out of my ass. ;o)

Finally, whatever you remember, EVERYONE sweats in Texas, period, end of story!
tired.png
Besides, I read a study that we actually sweat more and sooner the more fit you are because your body aclimates to the cooling needs. Once you start going, your body knows it's gonna be a while. One of the guys in my running club starts to sweat when he hears the word "run"! My wife doesn't sweat enough in heat and it kills her runs in the summer. She takes water to pout on herself more than to drink.

So in short, we're all different so my suggestions will work or they won't, I make not promises, Maffetone is not a god, Texas rocks and I love to run! Only the last one is fact! ...and the first 2...

-Jonny
 
#94
i pretty much have to walk

i pretty much have to walk uphill when i'm on the trails. my first mile will take me over 18mins. i can get down to around 14-15m/m. it's just not a comfortable pace yet. i'm doing this though so i can run uphill.



everyone who does it says it's hard at first. there's more walking than running. it's a sign that you have no aerobic system. you've been doing all anaerobic work. i guess let me compare it to bf. it's much easier to run bf than with shoes, it just takes some time and patience to learn but is worth it in the end. you're able to run further and pain free while bf and generally have more fun than someone with shoes on.



learning to run in your aerobic zone is about the same. it takes patience and dedication and can be very frustrating, in the beginning. in a couple months you'll build your aerobic system and be able to run faster, further, and finish strong. someone who runs in their anaerobic zone is going to be in pain, burnt out, and hungrier. the smart option is to train your aerobic system even if it's hard to start at 109 hr.



i know my comfortable running pace is 20 bpm higher than my maf zone. i then found, as he says, i'm much hungrier after and with less energy. i can do my maf run, and most days, feel ready to do it again right after.



anything worth doing is always going to be hard.
 
#95
Maffetone is not god. he

Maffetone is not god. he doesn't want children following his program. i can't remember what age he recommends they start using as it didn't pertain to me and i didn't buy the book to look it up. 180 is the magic number. he tested a lot of athletes in all kinds of sports.



it is hard work to do but can be done. no one said it will be easy just that it will make running easier. if given the proper time and practice.
 
#96
Jonny, like I said, his

Jonny, like I said, his formula had been proven to be pretty accurate over thousands of athletes from all different stages of physical fitness. He does say that he doesnt reccomend using his formula on anyone under the age of 18 IIRC. He also holds the individual accountable for being honest with their level of fitness. If you just do 180-age, thats not what hes advised. You still need to adjust the number based on your level of fitness.

As to conversational pace, in all 4 of the half marathons Ive ran in Ive held normal conversations with other runners (granted they were gasping for air) without difficulty. My breathing doesnt really change all that much throughout a big variety of paces.

My mom and wife (who Ive been with since we were 15) both commented when I started sweating, wondering if I was alright. I wonder if Native Americans used to sweat? Or the bushmen down in Africa and such?

Texas is the greatest state ever!

Boobies rule!

The Maffetone method might not make you the fastest runner ever, but I believe that if followed properly it could make you very fast and able to run for a long time (as in runing when older, not just Ultras...). I also think its a great training method for longer runs (hence it being "The Big Book of ENDURANCE Racing and Training") and there are probally "better" ways to train to run some fast 5k and 10ks and shorter events as well.
 
#97
I think I remember reading in

I think I remember reading in the Big Book... that it said the target aerobic heart rate for people over 65 may be up to 10 beats higher (just found it, page71). For people who have been training consistently for over 2 years they might be able to added another 5 to the number. He also writes (on page 72) that for kids under 16 the forumula doesn't apply and they should shoot for an aerobic heart rate of 165.

I've been using the Maffetone method for almost 3 months now and have had significant improvement, but had to start at pretty much walking speed, 3.5 mph on treadmill with incline of 2, now up to 4.1 mph. I do have thyroid issues which probably slows my progress down. Overall I'm still happy with the method because I'm not killing myself running and having fun.

I usually eat a healthy diet but around this time of year I have a hard time avoiding sugar/white flour, not helping my running at all.

I have a half-marathon coming up in about 2 months, no idea yet what speed to try to do that at. Last year was about a 12-minute mile. I think I'll roughly get back to that but at a heart of about 15-20 bpm lower.

Chaser, good to see you are still doing Maffetone. I post as houndlover on Runner's world.
 
#99
What about just doing the

What about just doing the run/walk method? Won't you get the best of both worlds, burn fat and burn sugar?
 
#100
Barefoot Gentile wrote:I am

Barefoot Gentile said:
I am saying goodbye to the Maffetone Method. It's a ridiculous way to run. To make yourself run slow when the body feels good to fast is nonsense.
Click to expand...



Maybe.

Me, I'm going to find out.

After spending the summer running in no-man's land - going fast because it felt good, even though I KNEW I wasn't gaining any desirable aerobic and metabolic adaptations and was running my body ragged and ever-closer to run-ending injury, riding a sine wave of training able-bodiedness (yeah, I made that up). It was like junk food... so cheap and easy.
 
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