Maffetone Method...what's your experience with it?

#101
Barefoot TJ wrote:What about

Barefoot TJ said:
What about just doing the run/walk method? Won't you get the best of both worlds, burn fat and burn sugar?
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I've been thinking about this during my run today. There is a lot to say for the run/walk method (Galloway or other) if one wants to improve time at a race without a high risk of injury. Switching back and forth between walking and running allows muscles to rest but still gives one the feeling of running, at least until the air supply runs out.

I used a walk/run method for my second half-marathon which was a more technical trail run with elevation changes (Moscow Mountain Madness) and much tougher than my first half-marathon on a flat road. I walked all the steeper uphill sections and was able to finish. I'm not sure that the walk/run method helped me get any faster nor am I sure it helped me develop more endurance.

In the end my primary purpose for running is not to run races but to improve my health in one way, in particular cardio-vascular fitness without hurting my health in another way (overuse injuries). This seems to be the first priority in Phil Maffetone's book as well.

The Maffetone method caps heart rate and thereby keeps effort almost the same regardless of whether I run uphill, downhill, into the wind, against the wind, on dirt, road, grass etc. This is what, according to Phil Maffetone's book, will improve the efficiency of my aerobic functioning. If Maffetone is right that most running is aerobic (any distances over 5 K for sure) this should be the best way to improve both endurance and speed over longer distances.

I could be switching between running and walking and even at the same speed, let's say 4 mph, I would get my heart rate up to about 115 walking but up to about 130 jogging. The purpose of jogging rather than walking is not to get there faster but to condition my body to use fat and oxygen better when running. I can only get better at running by running because walking uses different muscles. I also would not mind losing a couple of pounds of body fat in the process. Just today I read about a study that indicates that many people, especially middle-aged women, are likely to gain back weight that they lost but at the same time increase their percentage of body fat. I don't want to ever be in that group.

I'm willing to try this method for several more months because all I can lose is a couple of months. The potential benefits of a great aerobic base could last a life time and transfer to all other endurance activities that I'm doing, swimming, hiking, snowshoeing, horseback riding, hiking etc.

Better cardio-vascular fitness improves my quality of life significantly. Lots of different thoughts in one post, hope that all makes sense.
 
#103
BF G, see previous quote.

BF G,



see previous quote. "those who fight it and are frustrated by this method the most, need it the most".



it's no easy road to take but will be worth it, shortly.
 
#104
Lava, thats a great summation

Lava, thats a great summation of Maffetones training program (as far as the actual physical training part goes). Its funny how Maffetone trained Mark, and now Mark trains other people based on the same method.

So its not all about running slow, its about building a better aerobic base, and then working on other areas. But if you can run an aerobic 5:20 mile, whats the point? lol.
 
#105
Thank you, PR, for that very

Thank you, PR, for that very thorough response. I appreciate your taking the time for me.
 
#106
Chaserwilliams wrote:I

Chaserwilliams said:
I realized something last night. Since I started training via Maffetone method, I have never ran untill tired and stopped based off of energy levels. All my runs have been restricted by time constraints, so now Im very curious as to how far I could go given enough time. Oh, and with food and water on hand as well... Ill have to sign up for one of those timed endurance races to see.
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This is a great point. I too, when I was really concentrating on Maffetone, found that I could blow out 20 miles and feel really good. Time and resources became the problem. I would run out of time, run out of water and food. Stashing food and water became a priority and often times having people meet me worked. This year, I'll definitely use Maffetone Training methods again, I need to work on the other areas of life as well but as far as aerobic, I liked what I was seeing.
 
#107
Barefoot TJ, you made me

Barefoot TJ, you made me think it through, I like and needed that.

I found the article by Mark Allen very helpful in confirming the principles of aerobic training. At the same time it raised more questions for me when exactly to switch to anaerobic. Phil Maffetone recommended 5 months of aerobic only if I recall this correctly from his book. It seems that a lot will have to depend on the individual.

Getting all the benefits from aerobic training depends on putting every aspect of this method together at the same time. This means eating the right diet consistently (over the holidays no less ), keeping stress level (and thereby stress hormone levels) at a reasonable level, in other words being very high-functioning physcially, emotionally and mentally. At least that's what seems to be necessary for middle-aged (anyone over 35) and older adults to get all the benefits. Getting biofeedback via my HRM during runs has been a great way for me to pinpoint stress of all kinds (fighting off colds, poor sleep patterns, overwork etc.) and the benefits of this are possibly greater than improved cardiovascular fitness.

So I see the potential for great running improvement for many in a way that is much healthier because of the avoidance of overtraining and all it's possible consequences at all levels of running/cardio exercise.

I also see a huge potential of this method for the average relatively sedentary and possibly overweight person to reach a functional level of fitness and health that is true preventative health care, in other words: your grandparents can benefit from it, too when they are trying to increase their exercise from walking around the block to hiking the trails or getting to the grocery store on foot.

Taking away the no pain/no gain barrier to exercise for a large percentage of the population, not unlike C25K programs have begun to do, is huge in my eyes.

As triathlons are becoming ever more popular people are looking for role models, but not only at Mark Allen's level but also in their communities. I'm hoping there will be more running clubs in the future who focus on the beginners, not to convince them to enter races prematurely and use up their joints in the process, but to let them know that improving cardiovascular fitness at any level is a worthwhile goal and can be done to improve quality of life.

Just like barefoot/minimalist running (and walking) exploring the big picture and the potential benefit for millions of people fascinates me. I've been seeing some great positive effects of running in my life and I guess Christmas is as good a time as any to think about paying it forward.
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#108
I like that.  Paying it

I like that. Paying it forward. I finally saw that movie the other night. Good kid. I guess my involvement in the BRS is my way of paying it forward. I see the reward of this through so many of you doing your own thing after first starting here, whether that be keeping a blog, writing a book, hosting a clinic, managing a chapter club. It's really an incredible thing we are all doing here. I am so honored to be a part of it.
 
#109
palouserider wrote:Getting

palouserider said:
Getting all the benefits from aerobic training depends on putting every aspect of this method together at the same time. This means eating the right diet consistently (over the holidays no less ), keeping stress level (and thereby stress hormone levels) at a reasonable level, in other words being very high-functioning physcially, emotionally and mentally.
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I havent got the book yet but I dont know if I'll ever be able to meet these criteria... the diet alone would be hard enough to come even close, but stress would be even harder to rid of. Between working a rotating shift that I dont see myself ever getting out of and the stress at home... well I always thought of running as my stress relief. Not relieving stress in order to run. Not sure if I'm going to be compatible with this or not.
 
#110
Tristan, I definitely hear

Tristan, I definitely hear you on that one. I felt the same way and I had been working on making some of those life style changes over a number of years.

I now see it as a long-term project towards healthier living and improved running (in that order), something that may take years or a lifetime to perfect. For me running is definitely a stress reliever, in fact I don't care much if I ever win a race or even win my age category. But I do want to be able to run marathons in 30 years from now and enjoy all the fun activities I'm doing now and have a great quality of life.

Just like I need to be happy with very small improvements in my running from week to week and I occasionally have setbacks or plateaus, taking babysteps every day toward better nutrition, healthier relationships, healthier time management etc. will add up very quickly and turn into healthy habits. So I hope you'll get the book and give it a try. :)

Yesterday I had a great run, for me that was 5.5 miles in 1:12:40 or an average of 4.5 mph, with an average heart rate of 133, significantly better than a week ago and while it may still be extremely slow I could tell (by my heartrate) that my eating had been better than the week before and so was my stress management. I truly believe that in a couple of years I will be running much faster, more consistently and injury-free compared to many people who run great times now but don't live a healthy life style.
 
#111
Has anyone noticed a

Has anyone noticed a difference since the weather had turned colder? I seem to be able to go faster at a prescribed Heart Rate when it's 30deg out vs mid 40s.

-Jonny
 
#112
I run faster the colder it is

I run faster the colder it is too. It's still not cold here in Georgia though, not cold, cold, like it normally is. The mornings are crisp, but we're still waiting for winter, really.
 
#113
The whole Maffetone

The whole Maffetone discussion is interesting. The premise of training your body to utilize fat as a fuel source and stay out of the anaerobic zone is a fundamental requirement for running long distances (i.e.- ultras.) I don't know of any ultrarunners that don't use this premise. Maffetone just gives us a convenient way to make sure you run slow enough (heart rate) and test progress (the test run.)

I think Maffetone was off-base on his aversion to anaerobic training, but that's already been discussed. Sticking with Maff exclusively may lower your race pace, but you lose explosive speed and you'll eventually develop some serious muscle imbalances. Combining his methodology with occasional functional fitness HIIT and a little speed work will ultimately produce the the best results.
 
#114
Jason,I think you may be

Jason,

I think you may be basing what you are saying off an old book by Maffetone. He is not at all against anaerobic training, just says not to do it while working on your aerobic base because it will lead to a plateau in aerobic training. He also says that for any distance of 5 K or longer most of your energy is aerobic so building a good aerobic base will be the most helpful.

Many recent articles, including several from the book, are free on Phil Maffetone's website. The one about overtraining is definitely a good idea for anyone to read.
 
#116
Doesn't mark Allen disagree

Doesn't mark Allen disagree with Maff's 'don't do anaerobic while base-building" philosophy? Going four months without any sort of crosstraining is going to develop some serious muscle imbalances and lead to overall weakness. Adding some weight training to maintain strength isn't going to kill aerobic potential, or at least according to my n=1 experiments.
 
#117
I'm too cheap for a gym

I'm too cheap for a gym membership...I have a Total Gym that gives me a pretty good upper body workout. I mix that with 100 ups and 100 downs (squats) and some pushups. Like I said earlier, I run to finish...don't give a damn about placing. I figure that once I hit 90 though, I might get a first in my age group.
 
#118
Jason, Maff isnt against

Jason, Maff isnt against anaerobic training. He states that several times in "TBBOETAR", he just says it takes longer to build a good balance. Its easier (and faster) to build a good anaerobic base, but aerobic fitness takes alot longer to properly develop. During the aerobic base building you dont want to do alot of anaerobic training as it hinders your aerobic fitness.

The whole fat as energy is the whole reason I started with the Maffetone method. I see these people who eat a Gu every mile for a half marathon, that doesnt seem very natural (or healthy) to me. I like the fact that I can run for a few hours on an empty stomach. Hopefully this pays off come 2-4-12...... lol.
 
#119
Oh, for those who doubt that

Oh, for those who doubt that running slow makes you faster, I just made a blog post on my 4th MAF tests results.

Heres a link.

www.chaserwilliamsisrunningaway.blogspot.com/2011/12/my-4th-maf-test.html
 
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