Maffetone Method...what's your experience with it?

Jonny00GT

Chapter Presidents
May 19, 2011
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I've done 2 halfs now and I have about 4mo before my next one in March and then I'm signed up for the Full in June. I want to push below the 2hr mark in the half and survive the full.(Though anything under 5hrs in the full would be amazing!) I've enlisted the help of Jimmy for a training program, and I wanted to explore several training methods cause I know every one's different.

I haven't run with a monitor on in the last month and a half or so, but last time, based on what I've been told, my rate was kinda high. At a comfortable pace, I'm in the high 160s - low 170s. Pushing it, I see low to high 180s and I've seen 190 in speed work, though just for a short time before recovery.

Can Mig or anyone else with experience with this break it down for me and let me know how it's worked for you? Currently, I'm just relying on mileage for stamina and speed work to improve my conversational and race pace, although I did recently discover that my body LOVES Hammer gells!!

Thanks, y'all!

-Jonny
 
i thought i could get by just

i thought i could get by just by slowing down. nope. a hrm and maf training is way slower than i ever thought. my aerobic system sucks. i didn't need the hrm to tell me that because when i run the trails with a couple of people here they pull away like they are still on flat ground and i huff and puff like a two pack a dayer.



i just ran a road 5k on sunday with my hrm on. i thought about just doing a maf run but you know how it is once you get in a race. i warmed up for two miles before the race so when it started i was nice and warm. my hr was 163 bpm the first mile and i was really comfortable. i actually wasn't out of breathe the whole race. that put me at 10 m/m. the next mile i picked up the pace to 9:22 m/m at 179 bpm. the last mile was 8:15 m/m at 190 bpm.



i wasn't out of breathe but the whole time i was above my maf max. it left me hungry right away, which he warns about. i enjoy the training, now. it's hard to start out because you're used to running faster but i am getting more and more effecient the more i do it. ya, i shouldn't have raced but it was fun.



i recommend it. i've noticed the fat around my belly is a little less since i started. i've been at the same weight for a year. no loss, little gain. by using the hrm to train i burn more fat so i will continue with it as much as possible.
 
The problem that I theorize

The problem that I theorize with maffetone, now this is MY OPINION ONLY AND PURELY SPECULATION on my part so take with a grain of salt, people think it's going to make them faster at all distances. It takes a long time for your body to acclimize to running at a low hr and your speed is going to go way way down. I don't know that your speed will ever come back up to the speed you were at or faster for short distances. I think certain people handle it better than some of us and can get faster, but I have a friend who has been doing this for almost two years and he still isn't as fast as he used to be on short distances, but on a positive note he can run much much farther at a faster pace on long distances if that makes sense. I think this is a great method for distances and makes your body much more efficient for long distances.

I believe that to run fast you have to train your body, at least part of the time, to run fast by running fast. When I was in the Army I didn't go from a 6 something mile to a 5min flat mile because I trained slow. I was forced to run fast and I got much faster. Now running at that pace my max distance was about 5 miles but I could drop down to a 7/8 min mile pace and maintain that very easy for much longer distances and at a much lower hr, I'd done a half and full mary at these paces. Anyhow thats my two cents. It's a great method for long distances and should be treated as such. Now go ahead and don't yell at me too much because I know a lot of you disagree with me.
 
I'm a total running beginner

I'm a total running beginner as of 4 months ago, and started on the maffetone method 2 months ago. Mike is not kidding when he says you start SLOW! At first i was running 13-14 min miles at 150 bpm max, now i'm at around 12-13 min miles! I ran one 5k about a month ago and clocked 27:35, first race ever, but was dead tired after. when i checked my HR monitor after the race i was in my aerobic zone of 140-150 for a whopping 14 seconds, LOL!

I can't really speak to the maffetone method vs. anything else since its all i've tried so far, other than working my way up to running 3 miles, but it seems to work well for me with running 5-6 times a week. Favorite thing about it is i feel so much fresher after my runs using maffetone method than I did at first when i was trying to get a PR every other time i went out the door.

Also, in his book Phil recommends that you don't do any anaerobic work at all while base training, and i kiiiinda cheat on this one. Have been doing a runningtimes lunge warmup and 8week strength program for 2 weeks. I don't think its slowed down my times at all, but i haven't done a MAF test since starting either.

Overall, I think its a great way to train, but maybe not religiously, since i'm really enjoying the light anaerobic stuff also.

If you do decide to follow the maffetone method, i'd really recommend his book endurance training and racing. I've found the stuff in it on diet and anatomy to be just as interesting as the training advice!
 
Ive had great results under

Ive had great results under the Maffetone method. Ill post more on that later when I have more time to.

Ill just quickly say that it WILL get you faster at all distances, and theres a lot more to it than just running slow.
 
+1 to what Chaser said.I

+1 to what Chaser said.

I started running very low HR during my training this summer and dropped nearly 2 min off my normal mile time without really trying. It seems counter-intuitive (isn't all of BF running counter-intuitive?) but it's worked for many folks, myself and Chaser being some of those folks.

Give it a whirl but, again like BF running, you have to go slow.

Cheers.

P.S. - It sounds like there will be many more BF runners at this year's "Hottest Half"...
 
+1 about what Chaser said so

+1 about what Chaser said so that makes +2, right?

What hit me reading the book is that it is a lifestyle change. Running under or at the target HR is one piece, the others are stress reduction ie mental, health ie diet.

I started running at my target HR this summer and it was very frustrating, however it shown how I had developed a poor aerobic system. I thought my 38 resting HR was because I was in great shape, turns out I was overtraining.

Something I found that is probably the most important result for me was that at 16-20 miles, I was able to avoid the dreaded wall. In fact when I ran 33.2 miles I still had not felt the effects of running out of Glycogen. Not crashing into a wall was a pleasure for me because I have the belief that if it aint fun, don't do it.
 
LavaRunner wrote:something I

LavaRunner said:
something I found that is probably the most important result for me was that at 16-20 miles, I was able to avoid the dreaded wall. In fact when I ran 33.2 miles I still had not felt the effects of running out of Glycogen. Not crashing into a wall was a pleasure for me because I have the belief that if it aint fun, don't do it.



I noticed this as well (at the 20 mile point of marathon) but attributed it to the overall less effect of impact due to running BF.

Hmmmm. I might have to re-think this...
 
Yeah, I can't give up my

Yeah, I can't give up my weights. I am cutting back on the poundage, but not the intensity. I was benching 335 before I took up running the first part of April and when running alone wasn't taking off the weight and I kept putting on muscle, I switched to a high rep low weight 5x20 for a more lean than thick look and cut out the preworkout drinks that made hit the gym like it owed me money and don't do the protien drinks.

I know the one time I tried something like this, it took me 53min to run a 5k distance staying in my fat burning zone and my quads, calves and hip flexors were sore, which never happened at twice that distance at a 10flatish m/m pace. I had to slow down so much, my wife could speed walk next to me!

I'll also second the run faster to get faster, as that's what's happened to me since I joined the running club in June. I was a 12-13m/m conversational pacer with a race pace around 11m/m. After being dragged at a pace faster than I thought I could handle for longer than I thought I could 3-4 times a week AND doing speed work on Friday mornings, my old race pace is now my conversational pace and I'm doing anything from a 10k and under in mid to low 9s. I'm never going to be a fast sprinter...5flat 40 was the fastest I ever was in high school football, but I would like to be a mid to upper packer and run easy in the 8s.

Honestly, I hate when people tell me I'm slow cause I'm barefoot. I'd like to represent "our way" as a bit more formidable presence.

I know just loosing 30lbs will make me a LOT faster and I'm working on that too, but I'm interested in hitting this thing from all angles I can...speed work, longer base miles durring the week, tempo runs, fartlek, hills, etc. I'm all in!

Thanks for the responses y'all. If I give it a try, I'll post my results.

-Jonny
 
Didn't run the WR. Next

Didn't run the WR.

Next event is probably Joe's Run in Fort Worth (March?)...

Then the Hottest Half in Dallas (August)...

Then Marine Corps Marathon in DC (October)...

Maybe a onsey-twosey here and there, but the above are the only things on my hard schedule.

Cheers.
 
you guys need to get off your

you guys need to get off your arse and just read his work. no where does it say NOT to do speed work. what his work is about is aeorbic base building. once you do that you do your speed and strength work for racing. when racing season is done you do only aerobic work.



your glycogen store is limited to about an hour and a half for use. your fat is nearly limitless. train yourself to burn fat and you will be faster, yes, more so in long distance but he also talks about sprinting. if you run in your aerobic zone you will have glycogen left for the end of the race where you can run faster where everyone is hitting the wall because they already tapped through all of theirs.



what you don't want to do is mix aerobic with strength and speed work. read his book and he can describe it better than i can in a short post. that's why he has numerous books written about it.
 
Mike, Have read it, Great

Mike, Have read it, Great book and although you are right about speed work coming in later he certainly avoids it in some cases for years. It isn't like you do target heartrate work for a month or two and start doing HITT twice a week.

Also, his ideas around glycogen stores are pretty much spot on. Burn fat and go forever, Bur Glycogen and burn out after 1.5 - 2 hours. However, by slowing down, you burn way less glycogen making it last for as long as needed and by suplementing as you run with gels you keep the levels up and that is critical because you cannot convert fat without the igniter and the igniter is glycogen.

Me being a slow, middle of the pack to back of the pack trail runner, this suits me just fine. My weak spot is diet. I am a carb junkie. I love Pizza and Rice and breads. Not a good Maffetone diet. I did a strict healthy verson of Atkins back in the day and felt great but I wasn't pleased with my energy so I stopped and started running so I could eat what I wanted. Maybe some day I'll change my tune.

So I am kind of a half arsed Maffetone guy.
 
funny how we can read the

funny how we can read the same thing but come away with different conclusions. i'm sure that's why we all have different opinions on the same books and movies. i read it as do aerobic work for about three months, then do speed and strength work. it was in a few years that you won't be able to do aerobic work at the same hr because it feels too hard. the speed work, once you get more effecient at your hr, can be added in by doing downhill reps and it won't alter your aerobic work.



i to do what i can with the diet. i'm just trying to give up breads and grains. it's tough, especially when i like hamburgers and serve bread all night to people it's so easy to grab a few pieces while i eat.



like i said though it's more than i can explain in a few posts and that's why he wrote a few books about it. i think it's best to give them a read yourself and decide whether or not you want to follow his method.
 
daidalas wrote:+1 on the

daidalas said:
+1 on the reading his book and making up your own damn mind!



Here's a quote from Endurance Training and Racing to wet everyones appetite. "If you really want to be free, go barefoot......Without the restriction of shoes, your foot muscles can ultimately return to their natural state of optimal function." What type of idiots would believe that?
lol.png



Oooo...ok...I like him! I'll give his book a read...

-Jonny
 
+1 on the reading his

+1 on the reading his book!



Here's a quote from Endurance Training and Racing to wet everyones appetite. "If you really want to be free, go barefoot......Without the restriction of shoes, your foot muscles can ultimately return to their natural state of optimal function." What type of idiots would believe that?
lol.png
 
I think Dr. Maffertone's work

I think Dr. Maffertone's work makes sense. I appreciate what Pilotrunner has shared with us on the benefits. I have found that it takes a lot of willpower to run slower and I have to slay the ego dragon. However my goal is to build endurance and enjoyment for the long haul so I am going to be running barefoot at my Most Aerobic Function for 90% of my runs. And and run free and faster the rest of the time. This is the plan for the next 24 months. I have a Half Marathon in March and will keep you posted on progress.
 
I subscribe to

I subscribe to Maffertone’s theory sort of, I don’t eat processed food, bread, pasta, processed sugar’s, dairy etc. but i do eat fruit, we did evolve from apes so i see fruit as being a natural part of our diet. I have lost over 40pounds in weight in the past year and a half.

Long, slow, stress free milage has always been my preferred training method, teaching your body to burn fat for fuel is tough at first but you soon adapt.

Running does seem more stress free this way without all those processed sugars or caffine making you hyper.



?
 

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