Speed Endurance, any suggestions?

[NickW]

Ske I would ask Jen or migangelo specifically as those two are really big into trigger points and working them out on each other.

 

[Bare Lee]

Well the roller seems to help things along for me, so thanks for the suggestions. I keep hearing about trigger points, are they something i should be concerned about? I'm not carrying any real injuries but it can't hurt to be informed, any good reference, vids or pics on the subject that i can study? Thanks

I think 'trigger point' is the new word for knot. Check out the Clair Davies book Mike recommended if you want to learn more. Basically, just find a spot on your muscles that is hard or painful and try to massage it out with a massage tool of your choice. It may take weeks to really work it out, but you should feel immediate relief in the areas of referred pain/ache. Besides the roller (I've been using a extra firm foam roller and I just got the extra firm RumbleRoller), I've been using 'the stick' as mentioned above (I think I prefer the more flexible marathon stick over the firmer sprinter stick), and a stick with three spiky balls, my hands and fingers, and I just got a 'trigger wheel' which seems to work pretty well too. There are also several stretches--both static and dynamic--that help. Finally, I've begun stopping for brief massaging and stretching on runs over three miles. It's my version of Jeff Galloway's 'walking break'. Seems to really help once I'm up around 6-8 miles, and may prevent knots or trigger points from forming in the first place. These breaks may become unnecessary or less frequent later on when most of my leg/foot tightness has been worked out.

 

[skedaddle]

Thanks Nick, Lee
I was kind of under the impression that trigger points were something other than knots, a point on one part of the leg that can cause pain in another, like something in the groin causing pain in the knee for example.

 

[Bare Lee]

Thanks Nick, Lee
I was kind of under the impression that trigger points were something other than knots, a point on one part of the leg that can cause pain in another, like something in the groin causing pain in the knee for example.

Yes, that's it. I may be wrong about them being the same thing, just my folk impression. But you're right about the essentials. Massaging a trigger point can release a 'referred' pain/ache in an area away from the point in question, particular in eccentric muscles like those in the lower leg which are linked to the ankle and parts of the feet through tendons or other muscles. My understanding of all this is very rudimentary. I just know I'm getting results. If I massage the shin muscles, particularly about 2/3 of the way up, I feel immediate relief on the tops of my feet. Another book I just picked up but haven't read yet is Self-Massage for Athletes.

 

[NickW]

According to the trigger point book I'm reading that was highly recommended by Jen and Mike, a trigger point is a small contraction knot in the muscles of the body. Hope that helps and clears it up Ske.

 

[migangelo]

they're doing a good job so far. a TP can cause referred pain. knot here, hurts there. i have a TP in my shin as well that gets big everytime i run and i have to stop to release it or others. at least my PF is getting smaller and more manageable with all the work i've put into it.

getting a partner to help release TP's can be essential. some are hard to reach or just too deep to apply enough pressure on your own.

 

[skedaddle]

Ah, the mist is slowly lifting, i was always rubbish with knots, could never figure out me sheep shank from me slip or running knot Thanks again Nick, Lee and Migangelo for your help.

 

[migangelo]

actually, you have to thank Jen. i've just been more vocal about it. or at least am recognized as more sane and therefore more reliable.

 

[NickW]

actually, you have to thank Jen. i've just been more vocal about it. or at least am recognized as more sane and therefore more reliable.

Sane??? Really??? Oh, and Mike, after using your pvc pipe you use as your roller last week before the race I decided I had to go and buy one. Man, I am walking around with not a pain in either heel after using it today. I love that I can get the niggle (Lee's word) that is deep in my right hamstring. It hurts oh so good to use it because it gets down so deep.

 

[migangelo]

ha! i know it "gets down deep".

ya, more sane, i didn't say completely.

 

[jldeleon]

Sane??? Really??? Oh, and Mike, after using your pvc pipe you use as your roller last week before the race I decided I had to go and buy one. Man, I am walking around with not a pain in either heel after using it today. I love that I can get the niggle (Lee's word) that is deep in my right hamstring. It hurts oh so good to use it because it gets down so deep.

Right on Nick!!!

 

[KiwiRunning]

Skedaddle,

I dont have much experience with self massage, But as we get older it takes us longer to recover from training, focusing on things that help speed up and aid recovery becomes even more important.

Simple things like, eating right after a workout, getting enough sleep, eating a good balance of foods, a bit of quality rest time after a long workout... that sort of thing can really help.

One of the things i really enjoy is relaxation yoga, Im not much for standing around on one leg, or doing handstands for half an hour, but a few simple stretches, some relaxation and a quite meditative half hour is great. It also helps me keep some flexibility without me trying to turn myself into rubber man.

When it comes to training, what works for me, or the others may not work for you, were all an N=1, but rather than do hard speed work (which i also like to avoid as much as possible), you could give a bit of medium tempo running a trial... Something at a comfortably hard pace, but still Sub LT.

 

[skedaddle]

KiwiRunning

Thanks for your insight, I've found that as I've gotten older it's taken me longer to recover, at first i thought it was just because i was pushing more miles, but of late I'm getting delayed muscle soreness, which sometimes takes a few days to surface.
I think I've come to the conclusion to just keep running at the pace that I feel comfortable with, i totally agree with you about avoiding hard speed work, i just know bits of me will start falling off if i resorted to such practices.
This has been a bit of a muddled thread for me, trying to figure out where I'm at, but i now feel refocused and energized, slow and steady is going to be the path forward into my golden years, and i want to enjoy every single mile of it.