Speed Endurance, any suggestions?

skedaddle

skedaddle

Barefooters
Sep 3, 2011
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#1
I've worked up slowly to regular 20mile + runs but this has just been at a slow and steady pace, usually hovering around the 10mm - 11mm.
I'm in my 50's so I'm not expecting to run a 6mm pace but would like to improve on the base i have.
I feel that continually running slow is playing havoc on my flexibility, everything is just tightening up and i don't feel I'm getting any stronger.
I do a lot of hill repeats, and over shorter distances i can maintain 8mm, it's the longer distances where i lack the endurance and seem to be stuck in a rut.
Because of my lack of flexibility atm I'm wary of fartlek sessions or sprinting in general, i just know it's a recipe for injury.
Any advice would be welcome, I'm not really a technical type of runner, i just go by how i feel. I've got at least one ultra on my bucket list, and the heart to train for it but i just feel a bit lost with it all.
Any advice would be welcome.
 
#2
Just run how you feel that day!

I'm at the upper end of my 50s and have only been running consistently for a little over three and a half years but in the last week I've run one 18.5 miler at 130 AHR and 8.15 pace and, as part of a 7 mile run, a mile at 5.50 pace (she was cute, moving very quickly, and it was fun speed-play!).

Mix it up and have fun every run. I don't like training schedules at all and find them very limiting.
 
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#3
I've run with Chris and he's significantly faster than me... hence his advice has more validity. :) However...

My own speedwork consists of hard hill repeats and the occasional tempo run (3-8 miles; 6:30-8 minute pace) about once per week. Other than that, pretty much every run is a fartlek-like effort, including races. I stay away from injuries by taking frequent rest days and running pretty low mileage (average about 35 miles/week).

My crazy-fast ultrarunning friends all do some form of regular speedwork, including 400-800 meter repeats at a 5-5:30 pace and frequent tempo runs at about 6-6:30 pace. They also tend to run in the 60-80 miles/week range.
 
#4
DNEchris said:
Just run how you feel that day!

I'm at the upper end of my 50s and have only been running consistently for a little over three and a half years but in the last week I've run one 18.5 miler at 130 AHR and 8.15 pace and, as part of a 7 mile run, a mile at 5.50 pace (she was cute, moving very quickly, and it was fun speed-play!).

Mix it up and have fun every run. I don't like training schedules at all and find them very limiting.
Click to expand...

Ha Ha, that's what I'm missing, a cute Lycra clad carrot to chase after! and you can tell by my avatar that I'm very fond of carrots:) Seriously though thanks for the advice, its the 8 mm pace, over distance that i aspire to, so it's nice to here someone achieving that within my age group, just knowing that helps a bunch!
 
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#5
Last Place Jason said:
I've run with Chris and he's significantly faster than me... hence his advice has more validity. :) However...

My own speedwork consists of hard hill repeats and the occasional tempo run (3-8 miles; 6:30-8 minute pace) about once per week. Other than that, pretty much every run is a fartlek-like effort, including races. I stay away from injuries by taking frequent rest days and running pretty low mileage (average about 35 miles/week).

My crazy-fast ultrarunning friends all do some form of regular speedwork, including 400-800 meter repeats at a 5-5:30 pace and frequent tempo runs at about 6-6:30 pace. They also tend to run in the 60-80 miles/week range.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jason
I do quite intense hill repeats, very steep gradients, and run a 4o mile per week average.
It's the speed work i lack, but am a little afraid of, i suppose I'm a little afraid of getting injured.
Would it be better for me to increase my cadence, which hovers around 190bpm atm or slowly increase my stride length?
Thaks
 
#6
Happy to oblige!

Slow and easy wins the day - until you want to go faster for a while.

I like carrots too and there's always a good crop in Central Park. If it's a "slow" day there'll be another one along in a minute :D
 
#9
I don't want to hear that "I'm old" crap. There were guys in their 70's that consistently beat me at races in Tucson. While I made it a goal to finally get fast enough to beat a few of them, it really wasn't that great a feeling. "Yay! I finally beat someone twice my age!" I don't know what their training was like, but I do a couple of short runs (only 30 minutes or so) twice a week and one long run on the weekends. During the short runs I work on my speed. Concentrate on my pace and my turnover (cadence). On the longer runs I try to focus more on my form (not getting sloppy) and just making the distance or time that I set as my goal. I figure running a long distance is just like writing a book. A book is nothing but a collection of short stories (chapters) bundled together. A long run is just a series of short runs strung together. So if I know that I can do a 5K in 24 minutes, then I can do a 10K just a little slower, and a 15K just a tad slower than that. That has been working for me as I've lowered my race times and increased my distance. Your results may vary. ;)
 
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#10
devilnuts said:
I don't want to hear that "I'm old" crap.
Click to expand...

I think with age you get a bit smarter, but that doesn't mean the heart is not there to be the best you can be. I don't view myself as being old! Hell, I've even still got all my own teeth and certainly haven't resorted to ordering Viagra off the internet quite yet. I celebrate my age, i want to understand it better and so i share it, I don't see this as a weakness.
Thanks for the book analogy, i can use that and hopefully get over my writers block when it comes to speed endurance.
 
#11
HAHA...then why was there a need to mention your age? hahaha. Anyway, I was beat today by a 68 year old man and a 62 year old woman. So just because you're older doesn't mean you can't be faster. Of course, soon I shall be fast enough to pass them...oh yes...soon...muyahahahaahahahahahaha.
 
#12
devilnuts said:
HAHA...then why was there a need to mention your age? hahaha. Anyway, I was beat today by a 68 year old man and a 62 year old woman. So just because you're older doesn't mean you can't be faster. Of course, soon I shall be fast enough to pass them...oh yes...soon...muyahahahaahahahahahaha.
Click to expand...

If your read my last post i explained why i mentioned it, i want to understand myself better. It also gives those who are teachers an impression of where i'm at so i can get more focused advice.
I have no desire to beat anyone, i'm just trying to stay healthy enjoy my running and be the best i can be. It seem its you who has the fixation of about older folk by measuring your performance against them.
No one's saying that you can't be fast when you're older, but the fast ones are the smart ones, that's why they are still running and kicking your ass!
 
#13
skedaddle said:
If your read my last post i explained why i mentioned it, i want to understand myself better. It also gives those who are teachers an impression of where i'm at so i can get more focused advice.
I have no desire to beat anyone, i'm just trying to stay healthy enjoy my running and be the best i can be. It seem its you who has the fixation of about older folk by measuring your performance against them.
No one's saying that you can't be fast when you're older, but the fast ones are the smart ones, that's why they are still running and kicking your ass!
Click to expand...

No fixation, but you started by mentioning age and I'm merely pointing out that age doesn't mean shit. There are plenty of people older and younger that can run much faster than I can. My point of that, is why lead with that? There is no need to do so. But whatever floats your boat. If you want to get an attitude with me, go ahead. I was not insulting you in any way, but you want to start trying to insult me. However, you don't know me and I don't know you. I was merely trying to offer some advice, as was asked for in the earlier posts. If you don't want it, then there is no need to be a rude jackass about it.

By the way, my performance is only measured against myself. That is all I have control over. I can't control someone else's training or diet or sleep. I can control mine (to some extent). The point of the comparison was that age doesn't mean you have to be slow. My friend in a wheelchair doesn't have to be slow either. He will kick just about any legged runner's ass any day of the week. But why compare to him? It's not a comparison of abilities beyond friendly competition. Perhaps you didn't get that from my last post. There is no way to compare yourself apples to apples to any other runner...EVER! Absolute comparisons can only be done internally against yourself and the clock. Relative comparisons can be done externally, but then again, they are relative to some benchmark. I run barefoot, they don't. The train 5 days a week, I don't. They don't have stress of work and school, I do. I can run long distance off of little sleep, they can't. See? No absolute comparison and I thought that the laughter in my post made it evident that I was poking fun at the difference between these two, but evidently not. I will attempt to be much more explicit in the future for you.
 
#14
Sorry if you feel that way, i was just responding in the same dismissive language that you were using on me. You know two grumpy old men being cantankerous ;)

To me age does mean something, it's why you don't see older runners in the Olympics! I want to understand why that is, i want to learn what others are achieving barefoot in my age group, I'm just seeking knowledge by being as honest as i can about myself that's all.
 
#15
It wasn't meant to be taken as dismissive and I apology if it seemed that way. It was just to say that age has nothing to do with it. You don't go to a personal trainer and say, "I'm 62 years old...design a workout plan for me." Well, you might, but they aren't going to design it that way. They are going to find out where you are physically and tailor a plan to meet your current level and your goals. That would almost be like saying, "I'm 6'1", design a workout plan for me."
 
#16
That's cool devilnuts, group hug :)

Can anyone give me some advice on using foam rollers, is it a form of stretching? what are the benefits? etc. Everything seems very tight in my legs atm and i here a lot of conflicting advice about how to resolve such an issue. I feel i want to start adjusting my stride length, but don't want things to go ping in the process.
I know the usual "take things slowly" applies but can the use of a roller help things along a bit?
 
#18
a big black pipe works much better than either. that is if you need to buy something, then buy what's most effective. 2x4 at a big box hardware probably around $10 were foam costs $30.
 
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