Don't shorten your stride!

Mr. B&A, you're a man of strong convictions, and I admire that, especially in this day and age of cynicism and societal ennui, but I think you can understand my position as a recreational runner who is looking to think about more and perhaps even willing to work on better form and a more systematic training regimen, for the first time, really; namely, that I should first try to understand the mainstream, elite theory and practice of all things running, and then perhaps look into more novel or cutting-edge models. But I can tell you right now that the idea of using gravity, a vertical force, to propel one forward, which involves a horizontal force, sounds pretty suspect just on pure physical/logical grounds, and therefore it's difficult to see how leaning would be of any biomechanical advantage, and indeed, one would think it must create inefficiencies in smooth delivery of power and extension through the piston that is the upper thigh and hip/butt complex, as 'core' muscles are given a greater functional load away from supporting this action and towards maintaining stability and balance.
 
One day a week now I am doing as a pure speed day after my warm up. I go as fast as I can sustain for a mile. Then I cool down with a mile walk. The next day I ride the bike and do intervals on it. The third day I do hill repeats running totaling about 3-4 miles. I don't try to kill myself up the hills but I do try to keep a decent pace. Fourth day I am back on the bike and then the fifth day is my longer slow maf paced run. I also go to the gym and lift weights 3 days a week and I just added in doing the bike recently. We'll see how it goes adding it in, but so far I already feel better than just resting on those days in between runs.
One day a week now I am doing as a pure speed day after my warm up. I go as fast as I can sustain for a mile. Then I cool down with a mile walk. The next day I ride the bike and do intervals on it. The third day I do hill repeats running totaling about 3-4 miles. I don't try to kill myself up the hills but I do try to keep a decent pace. Fourth day I am back on the bike and then the fifth day is my longer slow maf paced run. I also go to the gym and lift weights 3 days a week and I just added in doing the bike recently. We'll see how it goes adding it in, but so far I already feel better than just resting on those days in between runs.

Cool, that sounds pretty similar to what I'm doing now, except I row instead of bike. Here's my idealized two week schedule:


Long run 5-6 miles
Rowing 30 mins and 30 mins weights: back
Hills run 3-4 miles
Rowing 30 mins and 30 mins weights: front
Run: trail, long, or sprints
Rowing 30 mins and 30 mins weights: back
Rest

Long run 5-6 miles

Rowing 30 mins and 30 mins weights: front
Hills run 3-4 miles
Rowing 30 mins and 30 mins weights: back
Run: trail, long, or sprints
Rowing 30 mins and 30 mins weights: front
Rest

With the weights and hills/sprints, this can't be considered a Maff method for establishing a base, but it feels like a good mix for me. I'm resting any given body part /muscle group 48 hours, as you do too. I think that's a pretty good rule for preventing over-training, injury, or demotivation. I picked it up years ago from a Weider book or magazine. Plus, I wouldn't be willing to prioritize high mileage distance running, as I enjoy being strong and generally fit equally well as having decent endurance.
 
Mr. B&A, you're a man of strong convictions, and I admire that, especially in this day and age of cynicism and societal ennui, but I think you can understand my position as a recreational runner who is looking to think about more and perhaps even willing to work on better form and a more systematic training regimen, for the first time, really; namely, that I should first try to understand the mainstream, elite theory and practice of all things running, and then perhaps look into more novel or cutting-edge models. But I can tell you right now that the idea of using gravity, a vertical force, to propel one forward, which involves a horizontal force, sounds pretty suspect just on pure physical/logical grounds, and therefore it's difficult to see how leaning would be of any biomechanical advantage, and indeed, one would think it must create inefficiencies in smooth delivery of power and extension through the piston that is the upper thigh and hip/butt complex, as 'core' muscles are given a greater functional load away from supporting this action and
towards maintaining stability and balance.

I understand your reservations but what literature have you read which as given your current idea about leaning as prescribed by pose method?
 
Barelee,

As I await your answer I will try to share with you my thoughts on the Pose Lean simplified version. The lean is merely the tension of our bodies alignment as we move from static balance to dynamic forward movement/out of balance. During this transitional time which happens at every step of our run. So leaning is the tension of our muscle support system working in harmony with external forces to move our body out of static balance( gravity being the most influencual in the process as without it there is no forward movement). Leaning/falling is the release of our postural muscular balance then we go into recovery muscles of the leg and foot to get to the lean/fall at the next step/landing.

Of course that is a very simplified version but I could direct you to a more complex way of thinking about it if you would like.
 
If your body is in motion, with both of your feet off the ground, it is falling towards the ground. It would be more efficient to move forward without falling (that would be bicycling), so I don't think you "use" gravity's force to move you forward. But the idea that you don't repeatedly fall a bit and lift yourself a bit when you run seems to me to be an impossibility.

I like watching Dr. Mark's Natural Running videos. He describes the running posture as tall, with a slight forward lean from your ankles.

Mr. B&A, you're a man of strong convictions, and I admire that, especially in this day and age of cynicism and societal ennui, but I think you can understand my position as a recreational runner who is looking to think about more and perhaps even willing to work on better form and a more systematic training regimen, for the first time, really; namely, that I should first try to understand the mainstream, elite theory and practice of all things running, and then perhaps look into more novel or cutting-edge models. But I can tell you right now that the idea of using gravity, a vertical force, to propel one forward, which involves a horizontal force, sounds pretty suspect just on pure physical/logical grounds, and therefore it's difficult to see how leaning would be of any biomechanical advantage, and indeed, one would think it must create inefficiencies in smooth delivery of power and extension through the piston that is the upper thigh and hip/butt complex, as 'core' muscles are given a greater functional load away from supporting this action and towards maintaining stability and balance.
 
So then you would want to lean backwards? Hee.
 
Lean backwards = run backwards? o_O
 
I like the idea of the forward lean, but have difficulty putting it into practice unless I am running very fast. A couple of times when I have had my running form videotaped, I felt like I was leaning forward, but in reality my upper body was straight up and down vertically. Sometimes I feel the lean a little better when on a slight uphill or downhill grade. But if a runner leans in the woods, and nobody is there to critique his form, does he really lean?
 
Good thing we don't have wheels instead of feet :)

Feet push backward, earth pushes forward? Equal and opposite reaction?

Not sure about this but the fixed foot could turn linear (downward) into rotary motion reducing the amount of energy you have to exert to go forward.
 
In my experience, if you don't discuss the lean when teaching people, they do just the right amount naturally. Teach them and they either a) bend at the waist, or b) lean too far. It's a case of trusting your body to make the necessary adjustments to maximize efficiency.

And I like arguing with Agile. :D
 
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Agreed. I just lead with my chest a little. It's not much of a lean at all for me.
I like the idea of the forward lean, but have difficulty putting it into practice unless I am running very fast. A couple of times when I have had my running form videotaped, I felt like I was leaning forward, but in reality my upper body was straight up and down vertically. Sometimes I feel the lean a little better when on a slight uphill or downhill grade. But if a runner leans in the woods, and nobody is there to critique his form, does he really lean?
 
And I like arguing with Agile. :D
I'm becoming a fan too. He never gives up, never gives in.

BTW, the lean, as I understand it, should only be enough to overcome whatever air resistance you encounter, provided you are going at a constant speed. When one is accelerating, of course, one leans more. And as Jason points out, this is done by most people naturally--no need to teach it. Anyway, off to a BBQ now. I promise to post a few things tomorrow or Monday from a more scientific point of view.
 
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