Canadian Medical Journal Association BFR Article

Barefoot TJ

Barefoot TJ

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Mar 5, 2010
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#1
#2
Interesting read, a little

Interesting read, a little more negative than positive. The one thing that was definitely missing was mentioning 'That barefoot running may not work for everybody, but it is working for a growing number of individuals', also something like you cannot just 'run' into BF and expect to be able to go marathon distances right off the hop, it is a slow and steady transition.

But I agree, Kitty, Doc and TJ rocked!!!
 
#3
Yes, I was disappointed to

Yes, I was disappointed to see that the article was more negative than positive, moreso than most articles, in fact.
 
#5
I was pleased they actually

I was pleased they actually included my comment about the shoes being the ones that are defective, not us. ;-)

“Like many people suffering with running shoe-related injuries or conditions, I came to a realization that I wasn't the one who was defective, it was the shoes,” Gerken writes in an email. “Running should be carefree and natural, not bound and controlled.”
 
#6
It's worth pointing out that

It's worth pointing out that even though this comes from a medical association source, it's just a regular feature magazine article, not a piece of research. It's not like the Canadian Medical Association is vetting the quality of the conclusions here. It's more of a "hey, doctors out there in Canada, look at what some people are doing."

I see some progress here. Every source in the article agrees that there is no evidence that running shoes reduce injuries... so that old saw, that Runner's World and practically every book on running for the past 30 years have told you, "you need to get a good pair of shoes to keep from getting hurt" is totally without basis.

The thing about the benefits of barefoot running being anecdotal is more or less true, you can't complain about that.

The most curious quote comes from Craig Payne, who sounds suspiciously like the anti-barefoot blogger at http://runningbarefootisbad.com. I really have no idea if they are the same person, but they sure sound alike. The whole theme with Payne and/or the blogger is that the "barefoot running community" (whoever that is) is twisting research findings. It's fascinating. He or they are kind of wriggling around in technicalities, I imagine, because now almost all of his colleagues agree that there is no evidence running shoes help.
 
#7
 The barefoot running

“The barefoot running community have an appalling track record at how they misinterpret, misuse and misquote research,” Payne writes in an email.

What that quote should read is "nearly every community that believes in anything even slightly strongly has a tendency to misrepresent, misuse, and misquote research because the vast majority of the population doesn't a Ph.D./M.D. in related fields and will naturally tend to pull out information that supports their own experiences."

People don't purposely misuse articles for their own benefit its just human nature to read the parts that match up with what you experience and not see all the problems in experiment design. I mean come on its not like we are receiving 1,000 rewards for each barefoot convert we get or something. There is no benefit to us if other people switch over. I thought including that quote was totally unacceptable because it as flat out argumentative and added nothing in actual information.

Other than that it was a decent article.
 
#8
 Payne writes in an email.

Payne writes in an email. “The simple facts are that not one risk factor study on running injuries has linked high impacts to running injuries, yet the barefoot running community claim that the evidence shows this and consider high impacts as the cause of all injuries.”



O.K., he does'nt believe that impact forces are related to running injuries? Eight or more years of higher education and he thinks that there is no link between impact forces and running injuries? No wonder many people are hesitant to believe their doctor's opinion!
 
#9
I can't believe the writers

I can't believe the writers of the article were able to find Payne anywhere!

It's not like he's very big in promoting orthotics or himself.

I have very little hair and sport a mustache as well, so I should'nt really say anything,

but he does NOT look like a runner to me. I also must assume that a web savy person like himself knows the importance of using your best possible head shot attainable, and, I guess that's his.



Payne_web.jpg
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Senior Lecturer & Honours Year Co-ordinator

DipPod, MPH

Health Sciences 3, Room 544, Bundoora campus

+61 3 9479 5820

http://podiatric.blogspot.comBusiness:http://www.podiatry-arena.comhttp://www.podiatryonline.tvhttp://www.diabetic-foot.com.auPersonal:http://www.latrobe.edu.au/podiatry/staff/Craig.htmlSocial Networking Links
LinkedIN:http://www.linkedin.com/pub/craig-payne/12/2a1/21Twitter:http://twitter.com/PodArenaYouTube:http://www.youtube.com/user/PodiatryArena
 
#10
I believe he's right though

I believe he's right though on the lack of studies. That impact is related to running injuries is obvious to anyone with half a brain though, impact will break anything in your body eventually so why wouldn't it be a factor in running that is a high impact activity for most people? What a tool...
 
#11
You tell 'em, Board!

You tell 'em, Board!
 
#12
I understand barefoot running

I understand barefoot running does wonders to cure PF.
 
#13
Here's what he had to say

Here's what he had to say about PF back in March:


Thursday, March 18, 2010The real need in plantar fasciitis treatmentreduce that load. I can think of only 2 (maybe 3) ways in which the load can be reduced in the plantar fascia. One is low dye strapping and the other is with certain foot orthotic design parameters. The potential third way is calf muscle stretching as there are some fibres from the Achilles tendon that pass through to the plantar fascia.

All the other modalities such as cortisone injections, shockwave therapy, cryosurgery, active release techniques, magic wands, crystals, deep tissue therapy, TOPAZ, trigger point therapy, nerve blocks etc , etc only help with the healing of the damaged tissue. Not of these can actually lower the load in the damaged tissue.

The long term management of plantar fasciitis is dependent on the load in the tissue being reduced, not depending on some pivotal magical cure that does not reduce the load."
[/b]


I guess he never heard of stretching the PF on golf balls or baseballs. I'm sure cricket balls would work just as well.
 
#14
#15
 I think the second article

I think the second article is more favourable and in fact more in line with what most of us think. Run barefoot if you can, but if you can't then use the tools you feel comfortable with to be able to run.

As cited in the second article I run in minimalist shoes 80% of the time because I run a lot of gravel trails. As mentioned to the reporter at the time. I could run them barefoot, but I would be slow, wouldn't be able to run so far and wouldn't be able to enjoy it as much as I do. What is the fun in that?

I agree with almost everything mentioned in the second article. I have VFF's and I use them. The price is high, but not as much as my running store shoes, so I was okay with it. It got me running without injury and it allowed me to go distances I would never have contemplated before. I want to try other makes but I refuse to pay $160 for a pair of Terra Plana's when I only paid $130 for my conventional shoes (which I thought was extortionate at the time). I am looking at other makes, but when the cost of them is $100 and above - forget it.

I am currently using hacked kayaking shoes as my winter running shoes. Are they are good as a pair of TP's? Probably not, but they are keeping my feet warmer than my VFF's have ever done and for $25, I'll take my less than stylish looks.

The part I don't agree with is that wearing VFF's makes me want to heel-strike. In fact I find it very hard to heel-strike now regardless of what shoes I am wearing, (even if it is my old runners; which I use to go to step-class and nothing else guys!) :D My body only runs in a fore-foot/mid-foot landing and it would take a lot of mental effort to change that
 
#16
in the article someone

in the article someone mentioned that barefoot runners have a higher frequency of impact. this is true so i wrote a small program im matlab that is as follows: x=heel impact force=10:1:50 (this means from 10-50lb in increments of 1), y=forefoot impact force=10:1:50, s=distance to ground (distance foot falls before impact)=4 (this is a stadard value that will cancel on paper but i put in there none-the-less), f1=frequency of heel strike= 150, f2= frequecy of forefoot strike = 185 (i took avg standard values). then i ran p=x*s*f1 and q=y*s*f2. i got two arrays. the comparison is depandant upon the values for impact force for each one that i dont know. however, for whoever does know this will help. the force per minute for a heel striker at 10lb is 7400. for a heel striker is 6000. the point of equilibrium for a heel striker is about 12.333 lb. so a BR has an initial value of 7400 lb at 10 lb and a heel striker has 7400 at 12.33 lb. this is probably riddled with error, but if someone can post values for impact force i can increase the accuracy of this data and incorporate it into a new equation. so under practicle analysis, for a forefoot runner to have lower net inpact force than a heel striker we need to have a lighter touch of exactly 8.11 lb of impact to break even. therefore, that light quick touch we always talk about is truly the key point of our lower impact running style. so the benefits hinge upon impact forces of the feet. so 8.11/12.33=.6577. so essentially fore every 1 lb of force a heel striker generates we need to generate .6577 of the force. These variables will obviously change with varying cadence, but this is just a general analysis.

i hope this analysis helps clear up any obscurity of the facts, and will someone please post the found impact forces so i have definitive comparative data for my analysis?
 
#17
Kitty, you have learned to

Kitty, you have learned to run with proper form, whether that be from your barefoot running experience or working on your form while running in minimalist footwear. That is great that you can go back and forth between barefoot and minimalist footwear and not lose form, i.e., heel strike. I am not as gifted. I am not a good runner, I am not fast, I am not graceful. I'm sure a lot of this has to do with the problems and pain I have endured with Morton's Neuroma. I dream of the day when I can run without the pain caused by MN (a little gift given to me by some of the types of shoes I used to wear). I find that when I run barefoot, I do not heel strike; when I run with something on my feet, I heel strike. I have not yet learned how to carry that form from barefoot to minimal and back again like you have. What I do know is that however ugly my barefoot form is, it works for me in that I have never received a barefoot-running related injury.
 
#18
Two good articles today with

Two good articles today with Low-tech running shoes by Roger Collier and Less is more for barefoot runners by Richard Watts,


I can feel the momentum building. The negative side of the story is with Payne but that is OK because life would be boring without him.

There is no light without darkness so we can thank Payne for perpetuating the status quo, ignorance and bad medicine.
 
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