BFR pain evolution...or limit?

[Robbi]

HI folks,

Been running barefoot (no VFFs or anything, really barefoot) for 4 months now. Started at 3km run walk and currently at 8kms, but struggling with a new kind of pain.

Over the months I had an evolution with corresponding pain/discomfort: Caleves first, then abrasion on soles and blistering, then tops of feet, then ankle weakness. Now I seem to be over those adjustments and have no more issues there aside from occasional calf tenderness. Certainly abrasion/surface toughness is no problem at all.

Now I am finding that my feet hurt - on the inside, like they've just been pummeled too much. Dropping back to 5kms they rcover overnight, but at 8kms I am jjust doing more damage than I seem to be able to heal running 3x/week.

I am running faster (from 6:30/km to 5:30/km over the 4 months) but not as fast as I was in shoes (4:20/km over that sort of distance) and abrasion is not an issue, so my technique seems to be basically sound. I especially find I impact my right foot more, and am really trying to focus on lifting on landing and improving my form, but I'm feeling like I'm beating against a wall. It's been almost 5 weeks now with no real sign of improvement.

What I'd like to know is if this is part of the evolution of adapting and my feet will still continue to 'toughen up' (of course also incrementally improving form etc., I realize that's always a work in progress) or whether this sounds abnormal from others experience.

I do suffer from relatively mild autoimmune disorder symptoms, amongst which in the past has been bruising of the feet. I currently don't struggle with this symptom and haven;t for a while, but I may be findamentally limited in some way because of it.

Cheers,
Robbi

 

[Hawkbilly]

It does take more time to adapt for some than others. If you're able to comfortably run 5 kms 3x per week, then stick with that for a few weeks and then add 10% and see how that goes (ie 5.5kms x3). If you're cool with that after a couple of weeks, add 10% more.....and so on. Do it very gradually so your body can adapt. Don't be like me and rush it and injure yourself (I don't follow my own advice, sadly). Your muscles will strengthen relatively quickly, which is why you feel you can run more/further than you should, but your tendons, ligaments, etc take much longer to come around. Don't rush it. You're right to focus on form first, before focusing on distance.

If your calves are sensitive after you run, make sure you focus on relaxing them during your run. Don't hold your heel in the air and run only on your forefoot.....your heel should gently land on the ground after your forefoot. Keep your cadence quick and your steps light (as you say,
"focus on lifting").

 

[Bare Lee]

I do suffer from relatively mild autoimmune disorder symptoms, amongst which in the past has been bruising of the feet. I currently don't struggle with this symptom and haven;t for a while, but I may be findamentally limited in some way because of it.

I would definitely have a doctor check that out. Sounds like you've already transitioned pretty well, so it could be another factor like this. I think for most people, once you get past the sore calves, sole toughening, and TOFP, you're more or less home free, although as Hawkbilly says, it's probably a good idea to continue to build up slowly. I tried jumping from 5 to 10 miles (8k to 16k) after I thought I had finished transitioning, and got a tiny stress fracture. Others seem to be able to pile on the mileage relatively quickly once they've transitioned and are able to run 3-5 miles.

 

[Last Place Jason]

I would agree with BL- you might want to have that checked out due to the autoimmune issue.

Generally, most of us experience a dull "bruise-like" pain on the soles when adding distance. This still happens to me when I try to ramp up distances on any flat surface. You will adapt, but it takes time. For me, this is where a pair of zero-dropped cushioned shoes comes in handy. As long as you can accurately replicate your form i the shoes, there's no harm in using them as tools.

 

[Robbi]

Thanks folks - I may just need to do this more slowly. Did an 8k yesterday evening, but at 6min/km and that was less punishing, so I suspect as I pick up speed my form is degrading so I'll take a look at that. Anyway, 6 min/km is still better than no km at all .

As far as the docs on the autoimmune stuff, I've seen a lot of specialists who can't really tell me anything except I've just got to live with it, so that's what I do. No booze, no coffee etc., take care to get enough sleep, all that good stuff of course.

Ta!

 

[Neil_D]

I think its a combination of TMTS, 4 months is very little time for the tendons and joints to adapt in the feet, it can take years. Also looking at the speed you are doing I would say that you are landing with a force that your feet can't cope with. I would suggest backing off, slowing down or else you will end up with a more serious injury. I've been barefoot running for 3 years and treat every signal from my feet very carefully. I've been through pains in the early days by doing exactly what you are now so I would be very careful. Don't project into the future any races of times you are going to run because it will blindside you and you will be taking enforced rest.
Good luck

Neil

 

[Robbi]

Thanks, Neil...that's encouraging. It's pretty hard to resist the siren song of those damn endorphins .

 

[Neil_D]

Yes indeed, running is addictive once you get to that easy stage. Pretend that you are starting from the beginning again, forget about the miles you were doing prior to this, patience is they key. You will get your distances back. I ran 22km this morning in cool conditions (10C) on road and sand, distances I've not run in 25 years. Although many people run barefoot from the start it still takes the brain a year or so to rewire to understand how to land correctly on any surface. The rewards will be there just give it time.

Neil

 

[JosephTree]

As Neil writes, 4 months is early on your development curve. I was still finding new and interesting ways to ache, both calves and ankles for my first year. None too bad, just signals that I had some growing to do yet. Now, just over 2 years into BF running, I'm feeling fine up to 10 or 12 miles, and can up the pace for a race if it's not wet. Be patient. Run well!

 

[Bare Lee]

As Neil writes, 4 months is early on your development curve. I was still finding new and interesting ways to ache, both calves and ankles for my first year. None too bad, just signals that I had some growing to do yet. Now, just over 2 years into BF running, I'm feeling fine up to 10 or 12 miles, and can up the pace for a race if it's not wet. Be patient. Run well!

That's useful to hear Mr. Tree. I still get the occasional minor ache or tweak, and had wondered if it was a lingering effect of my stress reaction which led to a tiny stress fracture in my left foot last year, but it could just be further adjustments and toughening, as you suggest. I usually just run through these little aches nowadays, and they disappear quickly by themselves. This last week I was able to sprint some, so while I'm not ready to declare victory yet, it does seem like I'm close to home-free. And this is only after a whole year of consistent BFR.

 

[Lomad]

no booze OR coffee????? You're a much stronger man than I.

 

[Barefoot TJ]

And that comes from our token shoddie. Hee.

Love that signature. We must be a cool group for you to want to still hang out with us. <happy sigh smiley>

 

[NickW]

******Warning and disclaimer. All comments in this post are made by a guy who does not run in barefeet (GASP) or minimal shoes (SIGH). He's still a pretty OK guy, and thinks barefoot running is pretty dang cool for many people, it's just not his bag so he doesn't do it anymore. This does not count as an endorsement of or condemnation of your preferred modality of foot-based locomotion, so try not to be offended.

Thanks,
Token Shoddie*******

Love your sig line or what ever it's called. Hahaha!

 

[Lomad]

Aww thanks guys. I felt a little disclosure and truth in my personal advertising was needed.

Tongue firmly in cheek, of course. TJ, I love this crowd. It's by far my favorite interwebbian community. there's little to no elitist BS going on here like i see in my other on-line neighborhoods (running and otherwise), so I choose to hang my hat here. It's to the credit of this crowd I haven't been run out on a rail for my public shoddiness

 

[Bare Lee]

Aww thanks guys. I felt a little disclosure and truth in my personal advertising was needed.

Tongue firmly in cheek, of course. TJ, I love this crowd. It's by far my favorite interwebbian community. there's little to no elitist BS going on here like i see in my other on-line neighborhoods (running and otherwise), so I choose to hang my hat here. It's to the credit of this crowd I haven't been run out on a rail for my public shoddiness

I agree Lomad. Here and BRU are pretty much the only BFR (however defined!) sites I frequent. I get pretty much everything I need. I have started looking at some of the straight running sites more often, and that's been helpful too, info-wise, but I don't get the same sense camaraderie as I do here, and am more or less a passive consumer on those sites.

 

[NickW]

I only frequent here and BRU. RW I never liked their site and format so...

 

[Robbi]

no booze OR coffee????? You're a much stronger man than I.

Hehe, it's not strength, it just comes with a much higher price for me so resistance is easier. I do fall off the wagon every now and then, but it inevitably bites me in the rear badly, especially during flare-ups of the autoimmune disorder. Had a good run yesterday, full 8kms, 5:30 pace and no battered feeling! Autoimmune symptoms are also reduced in the last few days, so I think this is the result of a flare-up (common on seasonal change).

I am coming to respect my feet as a great barometer of how my entire body is doing and how far I can push it. Taking off my shoes has connected me back to mother earth and back to myself in a fundamental way.

 

[JosephTree]

Good for you, Robbi! Maybe one of these days I'll pop down to SA and we can go for a run.
BTW, how much do you find that your autoimmune trouble can be controlled with watching your diet? Is it alchohol mostly that triggers or are there other things?...or is it tied to sun spots and the barometer, as in, it's just anybody's guess?

 

[Robbi]

Whew, that's a hard one. I'd love to tell you it's all predictable, but it really seems cruelly random most of the time.

I have tried many diets, including diabetic and celiac, but found that nothing really made a huge difference overall. However when it is flaring up, certain things will aggravate it, such as acidic foods and caffeine and general unhealthy living. IBS can be a symprom, and that you can manage well with diet (you have to or you ain't going nowhere )

I've been through patches where I just got sick of trying so hard to be healthy and having it beat on me anyway so I just drink and carry on regardless until it catches up with me eventually. Ironically, I have noticed that when I transition from unhealthy back to healthy it will actually get worse as I 'clean up' until it stabilizes and eases off again at some apparently random point. Go figure.

Things that absolutely do help are antibiotics, like a charm, but I quit those after two years of pounding my system with them because I can't imagine that's any better for me. Managing stress is also key, but less predictable. Sleep is the other factor, especially when battling a flare-up.

Basically, I just live with it as best my diligence, hope and patience allow me to.

Do you struggle with something similar?

 

[migangelo]

Robbi,

i was about to ask the same thing about diet. you are what you eat. finding out what causes it is the difficult part. wheat allergy or lack of fat. good luck to you. try adding in fermented foods. antibiotics kill everything in the gut, good and bad bacteria.

now on topic. i still get sore feet too. it takes MONTHS for your bones to adapt to new activities. it can take a year for them to calcify. rest is important in this process of course as is doing enough stress to encourage your bones to grow thicker. finding the right mix is where the fun lies.

i have two years experience bf and can do a distance for one run but not the next. show patience or your body will force you to take a break by allowing fractures and such. i have no problems stopping a run if i'm getting sore. no need to get hurt. i'd rather take a few days off then a month or more.