Dr Mark C video - anyone run like that?

[Noonie]

Been doing the BF/minimalist thing for a year now. Currently I'm able to run over an hour and I feel fine during and after. But I run nothing like that video (assuming most are familiar with it...about 8 min long, he's BF and talks a out elasticity and running economy, etc.).

I run 7.5km in an hour. My feet do not kick up behind me, they shuffle with very short strides. I don't feel any elasticity. I run tall, relaxed lower legs, good hip rotation. I run both road and trail fwiw. I land. I think, midfoot or a bit forefoot but not on my toes and my heel is not touching first.

I'm ok with how I run albeit I feel like I'm slow. I'm very fit and cycle 200k a week, so I have cardio for running longer/harder though I "can't".

I feel like I'm missing something...

Anyone feel this way, now or in the past and how did you move forward?

Thanks!

 

[NickW]

When I run fast (for me mind you) I feel like I run like that. As my body adapts to the pace and I get in better shape my strides seem to shorten despite staying at that same pace. I get that elastic feeling, but it has taken me a long time to find it. I think it was last year that I found it and things all of a sudden became easier for me when running. I actively searched for that elastic feeling. I tried changing things all the time in my form until I found it, and then it took quite a while for me to learn how to run all the time with that feeling. When I have sore muscles I notice I tend to have a hard time finding it (sore muscles seem to prevent me from having good form) and it takes me a long time to get into the groove if I ever do. Lately as my health has been getting better and my fitness better, I've been having less and less off days and more days where I don't even have to think about form. Seems when I run slow that I am straighter up and have very little of that elasticity feel.

 

[Scratch]

I know one of his videos has some drills which I think are meant to help teach that springiness to the legs.

Another idea might be to start working on doing hundred ups. I've been drilling that, starting from the beginning introductory version and now doing the full one, although only up to 30 reps so far and not a full 100. I feel like my legs are getting a springiness to them that they didn't have before. I don't expect to ever become super fast, but it was a good feeling this morning when I realized my feet didn't feel like they were shuffling this morning, that I was getting some lift as they bounced off the pavement.

 

[Noonie]

I know one of his videos has some drills which I think are meant to help teach that springiness to the legs.

Another idea might be to start working on doing hundred ups. I've been drilling that, starting from the beginning introductory version and now doing the full one, although only up to 30 reps so far and not a full 100. I feel like my legs are getting a springiness to them that they didn't have before. I don't expect to ever become super fast, but it was a good feeling this morning when I realized my feet didn't feel like they were shuffling this morning, that I was getting some lift as they bounced off the pavement.

Thanks! I just did the 100 up minor, then major, and then went for a five minute run with this in mind. It seemed very natural, but of course wasn't "that" natural. I varied my cadence and lean and can see how the "up" combined with other things I've learned will help. I also felt some elasticity, and a natural foot landing that seemed right. Can't believe I missed this in trolling the web for so long...

 

[Bare Lee]

I run 7.5km in an hour. My feet do not kick up behind me, they shuffle with very short strides.

Dr. Mark is a sub-elite runner. I think his marathon times are 2:25 or 2:30 or something like that.

Nonetheless, even for us recreational runners, it's good practice to open up the range of motion from time to time. You can do this with interval work, or try a tempo run about 40-60 percent of your long run distance. If you want to improve overall speed, a lot of people swear by hill work.

Basically, the faster you go, the greater your range of motion--your feet will kick up more--and the more force you exert on landing, which leads to more elastic recoil. In sum: to look like Dr. Mark running, you need to run as fast as he's running.

 

[NickW]

I've never done the 100 ups, but playing with my form I was able to find that springiness/elasticity. Most of the time now it feels almost like it takes no energy from me to pull my foot up, more like it launches itself forward of it's own accord, hence the springing/elastic feeling.

 

[Bare Lee]

I've never one the 100 ups, but playing with my form I was able to find that springiness/elasticity. Most of the time now it feels almost like it takes no energy from me to pull my foot up, more like it launches itself forward of it's own accord, hence the springing/elastic feeling.

I agree. Over time, I feel like my form gets better and better on its own.

For drills, I've heard skipping is also good, as is running backwards, but I haven't tried those since last fall.

 

[migangelo]

i can change my form to get that springy feeling. my feet don't come up that high unless i'm sprinting. i did some plyometric skipping a while ago. i was amazed at the difference in jumping height when i swung my arms more.

 

[Sid]

In sum: to look like Dr. Mark running, you need to run as fast as he's running.

Along that line of thought, all of these guys look springy.

 

[Barefoot Gentile]

Yes I can run barefoot like that, I may not look elastically though. It's all about time and experience, eventually it all comes together like a puzzle.

 

[Noonie]

Yes I can run barefoot like that, I may not look elastically though. It's all about time and experience, eventually it all comes together like a puzzle.

I guess my follow-up question to those experienced BF runners...in the beginning did you shuffle along, slowly, and how long did you do this for before you started "running"?

I feel like I can shuffle along slowly forever and just go further with experience. To go faster, to me at least, is something that would have to be a conscious decision and would require incremental work to avoid getting injured. I don't see myself getting faster without trying to. I cycle because I love it and have for years, can't say the same for running though. So I ask this with the intention of improving my enjoyment of running by trying new things, improving for the sake of it and not for racing and posting PR's. So far I've liked reading about BF running form/technique and making it a bit of a science (unlike my cycling experience). So this is along those lines...

 

[Bare Lee]

As far I can tell, there are basically two approaches to both of your concerns:

To go faster, (1) you can just keep running, and if you run enough, you will improve, or (2) you can adopt some set of training protocols, like a mix of endurance, stamina, and speed/power work. Here's a site that summarizes a lot of this: http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/tips

For form/technique, (1) you can rely on proprioception over time, allowing your body to make improvements on its own, or (2) you can rely on any number of techniques, like heart-rate monitoring, cadence-counting, nose-breathing, bending your knees, lifting your feet, and so on.

You'll find both approaches--let's call them the (1) 'just run' approach versus the (2) formalist or technical approach--well-represented here at BRS.

Since your goals are recreational and/or fitness, I think you should investigate both approaches, and take up the one, or mix of both, that you enjoy most, because enjoyment is key to consistency, and consistency is key to improvement.

Like you, I often felt plodding when I was first getting back into running. I read up on some of the stuff on form/technique and training protocols, but ended up deciding that most of it isn't for me. Some of the reading still informs my 'just run' approach though, particularly in my attempts to vary my run types, so I don't consider it time wasted. Nonetheless, I feel like most of my improvements, meager as they are, have come from simply running more as my fitness improves.

 

[Barefoot Gentile]

To go faster, to me at least, is something that would have to be a conscious decision and would require incremental work to avoid getting injured. I don't see myself getting faster without trying to.

Exactly! I did shuffle for awhile, and I think it's very common to stay in shuffle mode when running barefoot. And I think it's easy to get stuck in shuffle mode just because the uncertainty of how it's going to feel, form, etc. when barefoot. I came to a point where I was ready to start running faster, beating my races times when shod, I hit a comfortable level of running long barefoot now it was time to do something different. And I had to consciously work at it. Running faster will put more stress on the feet, and that's just another conditional obstacle.

I am a big fan of tempo runs, I will run a mile or two as a warmup, then the next mile I will hit my goal pace of what I am trying to achieve and maintain that for a few miles, then ease back. I will gradually increase my distance at a certain pace. You will need a garmin for this, just throwing some ideas out!

 

[DNEchris]

For sure I started shuffling but, before long, I began to "get it". Initially it was for a few steps at a time but then for increasingly longer portions of each run and now the "spring" is there for the vast majority of each run.

As I like the idea of free, or effortless, travel I experimented a bunch with cadence, stride length, pace and any other variables I could think of to try to find the happy place for maximum elastic recoil - it was all a game, and by definition fun, so I didn't feel there was any hard work involved in trying to find my maximum efficiency. All the play was incorporated into my normal runs.

It will take time and patience to achieve this but I think you will find the goal was worth the journey!

I've never "tried" for speed (though, on occasion, I can be fairly quick) but the speed has come as I built up my base starting with easy, then working on light and smooth. Fast(ish) just happened - but it couldn't be rushed!

 

[mokaman]

I still shuffle....nothing wrong with shuffling....everyone shuffles if you run slow enough...that's how you keep your cadence up at a slower pace. The butt kick is a natural thing that happens at faster paces to lessen the length of your leg which makes it easier to swing it forward...the heel goes up just enough to balance the leg speed vs cadence. I wouldn't try to force it to happen at all...that's too much thinking.

 

[pilotrunner]

Noonie,

JMHO, but I think you're over-thinking it. Just concentrate on the basics (foot placement, lean at the ankles, cadence) and before you know it, you'll not be thinking about it anymore and your pace will increase also.

I think you're just experiencing what we've all experienced - The learning process of being a barefoot runner.

Again, JMHO.

Cheers.

 

[Noonie]

Thanks for the insights everyone.

Since this (over ) thinking on form, I've experimented with things on the last few runs. First run, after doing some hundred-ups, I thought I would 'think' that form when running. It was very different from my usual shuffle, and while my feet felt good afterwards my calves were very tight. Left one took about 3 days to loosen despite lots of self-massage with The Stick and a lacrosse ball. I will continue to do those drills, for now, but won't really incorporate that thinking into my runs for now.

On today's run I decided to do an interval. First 4k at a usual, though decent pace for me, then 1k where I sped up to a pace of 6:30/km. To achieve this I just thought "faster feet", maybe leaned a tad more and that was that. Felt good actually. I then slowed it down for the remainder of the run. As this was a rather simple approach (I do like simple) I think I'll stick with the interval maybe every second run, and increase the length of the interval. I've been sticking to the road as I feel it's easier to monitor things vs the trails which I prefer. When on trails, with lots of hills and uneven surfaces I'm unsure if any niggles I get is because of my form in general, or just on the trail (make sense?).