Optimal strength training for runners

[Abide]

40 days total of two workouts and roughly 10 reps a day per lift. It follows Dan John's general concept for the 40 day workout with some minor variation.

Day 1
Deadlift
Press
Pull up
Front Squat
Snatch grip high pulls

Day 2
Trap bar deadlift
Bench
Bent row
KB swings
Farmers walks

Its similar to your 4 day plan actually with some minor variations.

Yeah thats the picture I have seen before and it explains what happens to me exactly. I prefer to get a little deeper in my back/front squat than what is shown and when you do go low bar its very difficult to do so. I wonder if I stuck with a low bar squat if I could actually squat more though?

 

[Abide]

Dang I think I need another push in there?

 

[Bare Lee]

40 days total of two workouts and roughly 10 reps a day per lift. It follows Dan John's general concept for the 40 day workout with some minor variation.

Day 1
Deadlift
Press
Pull up
Front Squat
Snatch grip high pulls

Day 2
Trap bar deadlift
Bench
Bent row
KB swings
Farmers walks

Its similar to your 4 day plan actually with some minor variations.

Yeah thats the picture I have seen before and it explains what happens to me exactly. I prefer to get a little deeper in my back/front squat than what is shown and when you do go low bar its very difficult to do so. I wonder if I stuck with a low bar squat if I could actually squat more though?

Yah, pretty much the same workout, just an emphasis on frequency over greater volume per lift per workout. I like the idea of a full body workout like that, but I find it mentally taxing to have to think about more than two main lifts per workout, hence the possible move to a 4-day/2 big lifts per workout scheme, instead of a 3-day/3 big lifts workout scheme, especially since I had the conceptual breakthrough, simple though it is, that I don't necessarily need to have three quality runs per week if I'm running aerobic 5Ks on most of the other days. That freed me up from the orthodoxy of always alternating a lifting day with a quality run day, and the mezzo-mezzo-long weekly running scheme. Maybe mezzo-long will be enough if I get in more volume with the daily 5Ks?

Anyway, thanks for questioning the orthodoxy about recovery periods, that has helped free my mind and jibes with my experience.

It seems like your lower body lifts emphasize the quads a bit more. Are you seeing the Dead Lift-->Trap Dead Lift-->Front Squat combo as a way to transition from the hammies more to the quads?

For the bar position, a little bit before minute 7 Rippetoe gets into it. In the video it doesn't seem as low as in the side view of that illustration.

I tried this on Monday, and it felt OK, although the bar seemed to want to go up a bit. I still think I need to flare my knees out a bit more. I'm still in too much of a deadlift stance I think. I think I'll first work on that and then try to refine the bar position. Rippetoe's whole thing is reducing the moment arm as much as possible, getting bars to go as vertical as possible throughout the movement. That dictates what is or isn't good form, along with considerations of anatomy and physiology of course.

I don't know if you need another push. Don't bench and press cover it? I like dips as a downward push for the upper body, but you said they bother your shoulders, right?

One thing I don't like about Rippetoe's attitude is that he accepts injury as almost inevitable. Maybe it is for competitive powerlifters, but for recreationalists, seem like you're doing something wrong if you're getting injured.

 

[Bare Lee]

OK, stretching out, reading a bit of Rippetoe's Practical Programming, page 136. Here he endorses the method I stumbled across, noting the similar effect that I have, that five rep sets at, say, 80% 1RM, are easier after you've done the 1RM than if you do them before or without the 1RM.



Thank you Mister Rippetoe, now I can forget everything and go back to lifting by feel. The only question now is optimizing the order of lifts, which may never happen, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, as daily/weekly variety is good, both for adaptation stimulus and for mental freshness. As long as you're improving on maxes, you're getting stronger, right?

 

[Abide]

OK, stretching out, reading a bit of Rippetoe's Practical Programming, page 136. Here he endorses the method I stumbled across, noting the similar effect that I have, that five rep sets at, say, 80% 1RM, are easier after you've done the 1RM than if you do them before or without the 1RM.

Thank you Mister Rippetoe, now I can forget everything and go back to lifting by feel. The only question now is optimizing the order of lifts, which may never happen, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, as daily/weekly variety is good, both for adaptation stimulus and for mental freshness. As long as you're improving on maxes, you're getting stronger, right?

Yeah I have read about the priming effect used for a couple of different scenarios. Back off sets are real old school, its kind of funny pretty much everything has been thought of and tried. Its just not easy to find information about those protocols and the often only exist in snippets. Make sure when you read rippetoe you are considering your level of skill, between the Beg/Int/Adv/Elite levels I mean. At this point the beginner stuff is pretty much useless, maybe even some of the more basic intermmediate.

 

[Abide]

Yah, pretty much the same workout, just an emphasis on frequency over greater volume per lift per workout. I like the idea of a full body workout like that, but I find it mentally taxing to have to think about more than two main lifts per workout, hence the possible move to a 4-day/2 big lifts per workout scheme, instead of a 3-day/3 big lifts workout scheme, especially since I had the conceptual breakthrough, simple though it is, that I don't necessarily need to have three quality runs per week if I'm running aerobic 5Ks on most of the other days. That freed me up from the orthodoxy of always alternating a lifting day with a quality run day, and the mezzo-mezzo-long weekly running scheme. Maybe mezzo-long will be enough if I get in more volume with the daily 5Ks?

Anyway, thanks for questioning the orthodoxy about recovery periods, that has helped free my mind and jibes with my experience.

It seems like your lower body lifts emphasize the quads a bit more. Are you seeing the Dead Lift-->Trap Dead Lift-->Front Squat combo as a way to transition from the hammies more to the quads?

For the bar position, a little bit before minute 7 Rippetoe gets into it. In the video it doesn't seem as low as in the side view of that illustration.

I'm not sure why I can't watch Youtube videos over here. I think I need to subscribe to tunnelbear or something.
Anyway I feel like its a good mix, the TBDL seems much more like a squat to me than a deadlift so you get a good variation from a bent torso to an upright one. Although what I was trying to do is mimic DJ's five basic human movements.
1. Push
2. Pull
3. Hinge
4. Squat
5. Loaded Carry
He often uses goblet squat, which is very similar to the front squat. I'm kind of leaning towards the belief that quads aren't really that important (especially with running) and its not a big deal if they lag from the posterior chain. So I just do front squats mainly to keep the flexibility up. If I never front squat more than body weight thats fine with me.

I tried this on Monday, and it felt OK, although the bar seemed to want to go up a bit. I still think I need to flare my knees out a bit more. I'm still in too much of a deadlift stance I think. I think I'll first work on that and then try to refine the bar position. Rippetoe's whole thing is reducing the moment arm as much as possible, getting bars to go as vertical as possible throughout the movement. That dictates what is or isn't good form, along with considerations of anatomy and physiology of course.

I don't know if you need another push. Don't bench and press cover it? I like dips as a downward push for the upper body, but you said they bother your shoulders, right?

One thing I don't like about Rippetoe's attitude is that he accepts injury as almost inevitable. Maybe it is for competitive powerlifters, but for recreationalists, seem like you're doing something wrong if you're getting injured.

Usually to get real comfortable with low bar squatting you have to widen your stance out significantly. Try it out and see if it works better. Also angle your toes outward. It helped me to box squat to get the pattern down. But it just feels so slow and shallow to me.

Yeah dips hurt, I have rings now maybe I should do a couple of sets here and there to see if they bother me like bar dips do. You know the weird thing about dips is I used to be pretty strong at them I could easily do sets of 10 with 75lbs of weight between my feet. Then one day something changed but I don't remember an injury related to it? I could add ring push ups, close grip bench or incline bench if I need some more variation. I'll wat till I am done with the 40 days and then reasses. I kind of like overloading the back like I am doing right now. Speaking of which I tried out trap bar high pulls today. I liked them and could do significantly more than the snatch grip version. I think the neutral grips suits me better as I can do more pull ups that way too.

I didn't know he believed that. I actually thought that was one of the reasons he distanced himself from crossfit? He trains male beginners primarily so I could see pretty regular injuries resulting from overzealousness. Shit I was one of them and still act that way now occasionally.

 

[Bare Lee]

Yeah I have read about the priming effect used for a couple of different scenarios. Back off sets are real old school, its kind of funny pretty much everything has been thought of and tried. Its just not easy to find information about those protocols and the often only exist in snippets. Make sure when you read rippetoe you are considering your level of skill, between the Beg/Int/Adv/Elite levels I mean. At this point the beginner stuff is pretty much useless, maybe even some of the more basic intermmediate.

I think possibly it's the same reason sprints are supposed to be good for you. Your body learns to recruit more muscle fiber with 1-2RMs, and then this greater neuromuscular activation will improve the efficiency and thus strength of higher rep'd sets. Just as sprints improve the running economy of distance runners. And yet, unlike with sprints, very little energy has been used up for the 1RM lifts, so you can get in pretty good back-off sets. Speaking of sprints, I really got to start getting in some interval training down on the track.

So what I had previously described as my WMR (Warm up/Max/Reduce) approach, is really this old school 1RM > back-off sets protocol. That is funny. Nothing new under the sun. I wonder how much the bodybuilders have contaminated strength training since the 70s. As I mentioned, I didn't even realize my body part/area organization of workouts was based on that community of lifters. Seems like there's a difference between bodybuilding, powerlifting, (Olympic) weightlifting, and strength training. I'm only interested in the last one, but a little curious about the penultimate one too.

Thanks for reminding me to take some of Rippetoe's programming suggestions with a grain of salt. Rippetoe considers priming a more advanced protocol, which confirms your suggestion not to follow too closely his recs for novices and intermediate programming. Still, I am adopting more or less a novice's approach when it comes to squats and power cleans, as far as breaking down the technique and really working it before adding too much weight.

I'm not sure why I can't watch Youtube videos over here. I think I need to subscribe to tunnelbear or something.
Anyway I feel like its a good mix, the TBDL seems much more like a squat to me than a deadlift so you get a good variation from a bent torso to an upright one. Although what I was trying to do is mimic DJ's five basic human movements.
1. Push
2. Pull
3. Hinge
4. Squat
5. Loaded Carry
He often uses goblet squat, which is very similar to the front squat. I'm kind of leaning towards the belief that quads aren't really that important (especially with running) and its not a big deal if they lag from the posterior chain. So I just do front squats mainly to keep the flexibility up. If I never front squat more than body weight thats fine with me.

Yah, DJ's program translates pretty well into Rippetoe's: Just substitute DL for Hinge and then add in rows or chin-ups for Pull and pick between the bench or press for Push. DJ thinks in terms of basic human movements, Rippetoe thinks in terms of which basic barbell exercises are the best functional expression of those movements. A slight conceptual difference that leads to the somewhat different biases in their programming? The one thing Rippetoe completely ignores are loaded carries. It's interesting how the only concrete exercise, as opposed to abstract movement, DJ specifies is the Squat, once again emphasizing its importance. I may have to seriously consider doing them twice a week, maybe once as a front squat with lower weight as you suggest. Together with our recent discussion about needing less recovery than many people advise, and doing 1RM for priming back-off sets (which I'll abbreviate as BO), this could lead to something like the 4-Day ST (Heavy) workout week at the top of the chart.



In the Heavy 4-Day ST week, each workout has one main lower body exercises, but only the Back Squat and DL are done 1RM.BO (One-rep maxes for 1-3 sets, then 1-5 back-off sets at 80-85%). The other two lower body exercises, front squats and power cleans won't be as taxing. The bench is also done as 1RM.BO, but everything else is pretty much straight sets across. So in three different workouts one of the main powerlifting exercises--Bench, DL, Squat--is done 1RM.BO. Also, the first and third workouts use the bench, the second and fourth mainly the floor and cables, so there's minimal screwing around with equipment changes. Might have to give this a try next week.

Usually to get real comfortable with low bar squatting you have to widen your stance out significantly. Try it out and see if it works better. Also angle your toes outward. It helped me to box squat to get the pattern down. But it just feels so slow and shallow to me.

Thanks, yeah, that's what I had been doing wrong. I needed to widen my stance and flare out my toes. That's probably the main reason I was able to go from 175 to 265 within a couple of weeks. I'll keep trying to hone the technique. Who knows? Maybe 300 is just around the corner if I can really nail it.

Yeah dips hurt, I have rings now maybe I should do a couple of sets here and there to see if they bother me like bar dips do. You know the weird thing about dips is I used to be pretty strong at them I could easily do sets of 10 with 75lbs of weight between my feet. Then one day something changed but I don't remember an injury related to it? I could add ring push ups, close grip bench or incline bench if I need some more variation. I'll wat till I am done with the 40 days and then reasses. I kind of like overloading the back like I am doing right now. Speaking of which I tried out trap bar high pulls today. I liked them and could do significantly more than the snatch grip version. I think the neutral grips suits me better as I can do more pull ups that way too.

When I first developed this nagging left shoulder issue, one of the first things I dropped were the dips, because I figured the stress would be too much. Also, dips are the only exercises I've gotten hurt doing, although it's always been in the beginning of getting back into shape, when I would pull a muscle around my scapula. It healed within a week both times I think.

Anyway, to my surprise, the dips don't seem to aggravate the shoulder niggle, and may actually help ameliorate it. So give them a try. What I do is warm-up really slowly. First, I just do a kind of controlled fall from the top of the movement, not even trying to raise myself up. I do that a couple of times. Then after a short rest, I just lower and raise myself a quarter or half. Then finally, when I feel like everything is warmed up, I do a full dip, then two, then finally five. I used to be able to do 10 full dips, and I think if I can start doing them more consistently I should be able to once again in a few months. I just think dips are a tremendous exercise. Like the overhead squat and landmine, and maybe the loaded carry, for me, they're borderline between an assistance exercise and an essential one.

I didn't know he believed that. I actually thought that was one of the reasons he distanced himself from crossfit? He trains male beginners primarily so I could see pretty regular injuries resulting from overzealousness. Shit I was one of them and still act that way now occasionally.

Well, he's very much against doing anything that leads to injury, but on the other hand, in different places, he accepts that older lifters will have old injuries, so maybe he's distinguishing between recreationalist and competitor backgrounds without making it clear. Certainly for me, avoiding injury at all costs is a priority. That's why my 1RMs are in fact more like 90-95% RPE. My true 1RM is probably 20-40 pounds more, but too risky to attempt.

Hey, since we're continuing the discussion of principles and protocols here, what was your intent on starting the thread on the training forum. Do you intend to report your weekly progress?

 

[Abide]

Hey, since we're continuing the discussion of principles and protocols here, what was your intent on starting the thread on the training forum. Do you intend to report your weekly progress?

Yeah I have just been adding days to the second post with the most recent on the top. So the thread doesn't pop up every time I update it. I'm treating it more like a journal so its easier for me to look back upon. The mileage post gets a little too long to be able to use as a reference, but the same concept. I will probably keep one cycle on one post to make it easier too indentify in the future.

 

[Abide]

I think possibly it's the same reason sprints are supposed to be good for you. Your body learns to recruit more muscle fiber with 1-2RMs, and then this greater neuromuscular activation will improve the efficiency and thus strength of higher rep'd sets. Just as sprints improve the running economy of distance runners. And yet, unlike with sprints, very little energy has been used up for the 1RM lifts, so you can get in pretty good back-off sets. Speaking of sprints, I really got to start getting in some interval training down on the track.

So what I had previously described as my WMR (Warm up/Max/Reduce) approach, is really this old school 1RM > back-off sets protocol. That is funny. Nothing new under the sun. I wonder how much the bodybuilders have contaminated strength training since the 70s. As I mentioned, I didn't even realize my body part/area organization of workouts was based on that community of lifters. Seems like there's a difference between bodybuilding, powerlifting, (Olympic) weightlifting, and strength training. I'm only interested in the last one, but a little curious about the penultimate one too.

Same here, I finally found a suitable "hill" to do repeats. Now I just need to convince myself to run over there.

I'm not sure I would blame it on body builders, I think it is more of the pop culutre influence of unattainable physiques. I think a lot of the fitness industry realizes that you can only repackage training in so many ways so the industry just pulls snippets from eveything and proclaim its new to sell more. Here's an interesting article on something similar. Tyler Durden lol.

http://www.mensjournal.com/magazine/building-a-bigger-action-hero-20140418

I have noticed there is a push to get back to the basics, which is probably due in large part to the popularity of crossfit. If you browse recent news on strength training you will see the big lifts getting more publicity. I'm curious though where its going to shift next. I suspect crossfit is going to come crashing down one of these days and I think it's going to pull the big lifts with it unfortunately.

I do think people tend to fall back on what you know or learned at an early age. And I am assuming we are about the same generation. From my experience it was 3 sets of 10, more upper body work and usually machines for leg work. Nataulis at its prime. I had only one football coach, who played college ball, that had me squat. And I was in the weight room, supervised by coaches, daily all through high school. Once I was in college I was the only person who would ever use the squat rack and beautiful olympic lifting platform they had. And the only reason I used them was because I became friends with a powerlifter who changed my mindset about lifting.[/quote]

 

[Bare Lee]

Same here, I finally found a suitable "hill" to do repeats. Now I just need to convince myself to run over there.

I'm not sure I would blame it on body builders, I think it is more of the pop culutre influence of unattainable physiques. I think a lot of the fitness industry realizes that you can only repackage training in so many ways so the industry just pulls snippets from eveything and proclaim its new to sell more. Here's an interesting article on something similar. Tyler Durden lol.

http://www.mensjournal.com/magazine/building-a-bigger-action-hero-20140418

I have noticed there is a push to get back to the basics, which is probably due in large part to the popularity of crossfit. If you browse recent news on strength training you will see the big lifts getting more publicity. I'm curious though where its going to shift next. I suspect crossfit is going to come crashing down one of these days and I think it's going to pull the big lifts with it unfortunately.

I do think people tend to fall back on what you know or learned at an early age. And I am assuming we are about the same generation. From my experience it was 3 sets of 10, more upper body work and usually machines for leg work. Nataulis at its prime. I had only one football coach, who played college ball, that had me squat. And I was in the weight room, supervised by coaches, daily all through high school. Once I was in college I was the only person who would ever use the squat rack and beautiful olympic lifting platform they had. And the only reason I used them was because I became friends with a powerlifter who changed my mindset about lifting.

[/quote]
Yah, I was lucky to have my older brother and backyard neighbor (who went on to co-own a powerlifter/bodybuilder gym and invent those ridiculous pants--Zubaz) teach me the basics of free weights. Like most young guys, at first I did a lot of bench and some arms, because that's what you see in the mirror and that's what (American) girls like, right? Then in Japan in karate I discovered how deadlifts and power cleans led to more explosive kicks, but I still resisted squats, even though my sensei preached their importance. The only real machine use I've done through the years is pulldowns. I didn't have access to Nautilus machines until Chicago, and by then the free weights habit was pretty well set. Still, those guys had the basic bodybuilder mentality of doing body areas, like chest and shoulders day, and I've tended to organize my workouts that way too over the years. So it's been a revelation to think more in terms of basic barbell movements, pushes and pulls, and basing most workouts on the heavy lifts.

I susbscribed to Men's Fitness emails for a while. But the constant variety of workout suggestions got pretty annoying after a while so I unsubscribed. Too faddish. I'm happy you've steered me to some of the more traditional meathead sites, and then following up on your Rippetoe reference was really helpful in achieving a certain conceptual clarity.

Got a head cold now. So no workout yesterday and probably not today, but we'll see--I'd really like to get in my deadlift this week or at least the power clean and some more squats. Serves me right for spending so much time tweaking things, but I'm really liking how this last "heavy" routine looks.

Sun: Run Recovery, Plyometrics & Mobility
Mon: 5K, Bench (1RM>Back-off), Press (5x3), DB Press (5x3), Front Squats (5x3)
Tu: 5K, Deadlift (1RM>Back-off), Rows (5x3), Landmine (5x3), Loaded Carry (2-3 sets).
Wed: Mezzo Run, ST Recovery, Plyometrics & Mobility
Th: 5K, Back Squat(1RM>Back-off), Overhead Squat (5x3), Dips (5x3), Press (5x3)
Fri: 5K, Power Clean (3x5), SG High Pull (5x3), Pulldowns (5x3), Tipping Bird (5x3), Arms (2-3 sets of curls & Tri Ext)
Sa: Long Run, ST Recovery

It alternates between Push and Pull days, and equipment-wise, between Bench and Floor/T-bar/Cable days,

Mon: Push/Bench
Tu: Pull/Floor, T-bar & Cables
Th: Push/Bench
Fri: Pull/Floor & Cables

it also covers both the upper and lower body in each workout,
does what Rippetoe considers the four essential lifts or one of their variations twice each week, yet still gets in rows and pull downs,
includes my favorite assistance exercises,
and gets in 1RM>Back-off sets for the three big powerlifter lifts and 5x3 sets across for most of the others.

Plus, the thing decomposes pretty well into reduced workouts if I'm short on time or energy, so I should always be able to get in all the main lifts each week no matter what. For a reduced routine, I just do the first lifts of each workout and shift the Presses to Wednesday, with Rows and Pulldowns an option pretty much any day:

Sun: Run Recovery, Plyometrics & Mobility
Mon: 5K, Bench (1RM>Back-off)
Tu: 5K, Deadlift (1RM>Back-off)
Wed: Mezzo Run, Press (5x3)
Th: 5K, Back Squat(1RM>Back-off)
Fri: 5K, Power Clean (3x5)
Sa: Long Run, ST Recovery

That was an interesting article about movie stars. I just skimmed it. I did the low body fat thing a couple of times while pretending to be a model. It's brutal. I much prefer Sean Connery's James Bond to the new one. That new guy looks like he's holding back a fart all the time, but he's still a big improvement over Peirce Bronson.

Speaking of which I tried out trap bar high pulls today. I liked them and could do significantly more than the snatch grip version. I think the neutral grips suits me better as I can do more pull ups that way too.

I've added High Pulls to my Friday workout. That's getting to be my 'explosive lifts' day. You're inside the trap bar, right? Are you using a hinge snap, or even jump, together with the arm/lat/trap movement? In some High Pull videos, the people squat down a bit and almost do a little jump with their heels leaving the floor. In others the lower body is more or less stable and doesn't move.

 

[Sid]

I'll take the farmer's walks more seriously and see how it feels.

There's a guy in the neighborhood who walks his dog while wearing a weighted vest.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002IU8ZCA/

 

[Abide]

There's a guy in the neighborhood who walks his dog while wearing a weighted vest.

That's a pricey vest. I have wondered if doing weighted walking is worth it? I have heard many stories about how rucking with packs in the military has trashed soldiers bodies. I'm curious if its the rucking or something else that is causing the isssues. Mostly long term back, hip and knee problems.

 

[Abide]

That was an interesting article about movie stars. I just skimmed it. I did the low body fat thing a couple of times while pretending to be a model. It's brutal. I much prefer Sean Connery's James Bond to the new one. That new guy looks like he's holding back a fart all the time, but he's still a big improvement over Peirce Bronson.



I've added High Pulls to my Friday workout. That's getting to be my 'explosive lifts' day. You're inside the trap bar, right? Are you using a hinge snap, or even jump, together with the arm/lat/trap movement? In some High Pull videos, the people squat down a bit and almost do a little jump with their heels leaving the floor. In others the lower body is more or less stable and doesn't move.

Ah yeah it depends on why you are doing them. The way I do them is the bulk of work is done by the hip extension and not really an active pull. So if you did it explosively your heels would leave the ground a bit. You can handle a little more weight this way too. I always do them from a hang and its more like a jump , the bar drops to about mid thigh level at the lowest. And yes inside the trap bar. These should be qualified, technically its more like a neutral grip high pull and not a snatch/clean grip, but whatever. Start light.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/high_pull_for_the_power_look
http://train.elitefts.com/exercises-by-body-part/delts-exercises-by-body-part/high-pulls/

Ah man goldeneye is one of my favorites though. They're all better than Roger Moore in my opinion. Connery is the best though.

 

[Sid]

That's a pricey vest. I have wondered if doing weighted walking is worth it? I have heard many stories about how rucking with packs in the military has trashed soldiers bodies. I'm curious if its the rucking or something else that is causing the isssues. Mostly long term back, hip and knee problems.

Don't people in other cultures walk around carrying significant loads on their heads? Maybe Lee has more information on this.

My best guess is that in the military, they aren't allowed to listen to their bodies, and do too much too soon, and have a no pain, no gain approach?

 

[Bare Lee]

Ah yeah it depends on why you are doing them. The way I do them is the bulk of work is done by the hip extension and not really an active pull. So if you did it explosively your heels would leave the ground a bit. You can handle a little more weight this way too. I always do them from a hang and its more like a jump , the bar drops to about mid thigh level at the lowest. And yes inside the trap bar. These should be qualified, technically its more like a neutral grip high pull and not a snatch/clean grip, but whatever. Start light.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/high_pull_for_the_power_look
http://train.elitefts.com/exercises-by-body-part/delts-exercises-by-body-part/high-pulls/

Ah man goldeneye is one of my favorites though. They're all better than Roger Moore in my opinion. Connery is the best though.

Thanks, since I posted that, I read up on them a bit more, and everyone agrees with you, that hip drive is key. On second thought, I may put off trying to do these until my power clean is solid. The hip drive is the same, but I'm afraid the simpler arm movement of the high pulls will interfere with my technique in the power cleans until it becomes habit. Still, I think they might make a nice pairing in a workout.

And yes Sid, people generally carry sacks of rice/concrete or bundles of firewood on their heads. It's amazing how strong people of relatively small statue can be. I don't know about soldiers, but a good backpack will put most of the weight on your hips, especially if you pack it with all the heavy stuff close to your body or in the bottom of the pack.

Man, my head cold is still lingering. I was really psyched to start in on my four-day heavy routine. Maybe I'll do all of Monday's exercises today--bench, press, db press, front squat--but at 50-70%, just to get the ball rolling.

 

[NickW]

That's a pricey vest. I have wondered if doing weighted walking is worth it? I have heard many stories about how rucking with packs in the military has trashed soldiers bodies. I'm curious if its the rucking or something else that is causing the isssues. Mostly long term back, hip and knee problems.

Well, my lower back was thrashed after 3 years and 10 months in the military (I was infantry). My first back surgery I was 29 I think and my second was when I was 30-31. Anyhow, the rucks contributed to the damage in my lower back, but I think a lot of the running, jumping, diving onto ground, carrying your battle buddy, etc... contributed more. Being in the infantry is really hard on a persons body. With the rucks a soldier also has to lean to balance out that weight, a weighted vest I would imagine would be more balanced already so you wouldn't have to lean and could walk like you would with just your body weight.

 

[Abide]

Now that we are talking about weighted walking I've been looking into walking more actively with poles and light hand weights too.
Interesting subject.
Although I guess I should just focus on running more.

 

[Bare Lee]

Well, my lower back was thrashed after 3 years and 10 months in the military (I was infantry). My first back surgery I was 29 I think and my second was when I was 30-31. Anyhow, the rucks contributed to the damage in my lower back, but I think a lot of the running, jumping, diving onto ground, carrying your battle buddy, etc... contributed more. Being in the infantry is really hard on a persons body. With the rucks a soldier also has to lean to balance out that weight, a weighted vest I would imagine would be more balanced already so you wouldn't have to lean and could walk like you would with just your body weight.

Yah, you military guys carry a lot more than a hiker, a sensible hiker anyway. I hiked in the Andes with a German and a Israeli guy who had just finished his three-year military service. The Israeli carried pretty much everything conceivable, in a pack that began just above his knees and went up over his head. He was in misery the whole time. My theory of hiking is to go as light as possible, and just eat dry food, but I didn't mind having him whip out his cooking gear at the end of the day and make a nice, hot three-course meal, as long he carried all the gear.

Now that we are talking about weighted walking I've been looking into walking more actively with poles and light hand weights too.
Interesting subject.
Although I guess I should just focus on running more.

My son is about 30 pounds now, and my daughter fifty, so I have graded shoulder weights whenever I need them, but I agree with Abide, best just to run.

Anyway, family schedule is changing and I might have to adopt early morning st. I can do running at 5am, but st at that hour is a hard sell. Maybe if I let go of the 1RMs, and do 3x5 sets across at 80-85% RPE, while I'm adapting, I'll manage it.

So anyway, after all this overthinking, I might be back to my old Weights M-W-F, and Running Tu-Th-Sa schedule. The everyday 5K idea might never get a proper airing.

 

[NickW]

Yah, you guys carry a lot more than a hiker, a sensible hiker anyway. I hiked in the Andes with a German and a Israeli guy who had just finished his three-year service. The Israeli carried pretty much everything conceivable, in a pack that began just above his knees and when up over his head. He was in misery the whole time. My theory of hiking is to go as light as possible, and just eat dry food, but I didn't mind having him whip out his cooking gear at the end of the day and make a nice, hot three-course meal, as long he carried all the gear.

That's so funny Lee! I am so that Israelli guy. I've gotten better in the last few years, but it was ingrained in me in the military to prepare in case sh*t happens. I do bring along dehydrated food too, but I also have a little backpackers stove and aluminum teapot so I can heat them up. I also tend to bring MRE's as well, I just field strip them down to lighten them up as much as possible. The stuff that weighs the most in my backpack though is water. My stepfather and my brother both made fun of me and how much water I brought on our last excursion, until they ran out of water and needed some. Sure we all had iodine pills and could boil water, but really that's quite a hassle and I prefer personally to not have to worry about it.

Anyhow, hope this getting up extra early works for you. Me, I can run early morning but weights are extremely tough that early. Hope you're feeling better.

 

[Bare Lee]

That's so funny Lee! I am so that Israelli guy. I've gotten better in the last few years, but it was ingrained in me in the military to prepare in case sh*t happens. I do bring along dehydrated food too, but I also have a little backpackers stove and aluminum teapot so I can heat them up. I also tend to bring MRE's as well, I just field strip them down to lighten them up as much as possible. The stuff that weighs the most in my backpack though is water. My stepfather and my brother both made fun of me and how much water I brought on our last excursion, until they ran out of water and needed some. Sure we all had iodine pills and could boil water, but really that's quite a hassle and I prefer personally to not have to worry about it.

Anyhow, hope this getting up extra early works for you. Me, I can run early morning but weights are extremely tough that early. Hope you're feeling better.

Yah, not everyone can get by eating nuts and bread for days on end, but I can. Water, of course, is essential, but I got used to the taste of iodine pills or other purifying tablets. I had a filter pump for a while, but it's pretty impolite to ask for water in a village and then sit there in front of them filtering out their water with a high tech device. I would just fill up my water bottles and then put in the tablets once I was out of view.

I'll actually be waking up about the same time or even a bit later, around 5am, but with the new schedule it won't work out very well to do st at the end of the afternoon. The best solution will probably be to either run or lift right after I wake up, at the same time everyday, we'll see. Negotiations with management (my wife) over the new family schedule are still ongoing. It could work out better this way if I can adapt. I may have to replace some of the intensity with volume, but the more I read, that might not be such a bad thing. Kind of like the Easy Strength idea.