When did it all get so complicated?

#21
TJYup, but either way the

TJ

Yup, but either way the painting's still ruined :eek: Anywho, i'm going to buy mystelf a heart rate monitor tomorrow, i shall follow the Maff method for three months, and if it helps me i'll swallow my pride, turn to the dark side, and report back with a big hang-dog expression.

Nah, just kidding.............................. or am i ??????????
 
#22
I think tech as tool is OK

I think tech as tool is OK and has its place. For me the "place" is usually in the glove box, but still, now and then I might have someting to achieve that will require new info. I'm glad that there are teachers doing the analytical work for me and able to explain what I would be otherwise clueless about.
 
#23
Adding to the chorus of "I'm

Adding to the chorus of "I'm here to run." This is something I've been thinking about a lot the past couple months. I see it's a concern for others too: http://barefootrunners.org/forum-topic/i-just-want-run



Carry my water-bottle always (and have to seriously bundle up in the cold because I hate cold). Have to add safety stuff for running on the road in the dark. I do have a cheap distance thingie I usually wear just because I'm curious. I clock my run-time by the sun (i.e. I'm slow). Other than that...I just want to run.



I'm a junkie looking for the high. I'm the idiot who sprints uphill because I love the "takeoff" feeling I get, and slowly trots downhill. I like to pretend I'm training for something, but with my absolute lack of planning (and total lack of desire to do so), lack of proper running knowledge and current low mileage -- who am I kidding? I walk a lot when I'm "running" and have even taken naps on the docks at the lake in the middle of a run just because I felt like it. I prefer running when there are no people out (and preferably no cars). I spend my time looking for smooth round things to stretch my feet on (those large white bumps by the side of the road are AMAZING) or looking for green grass. I like jumping over stuff in my bare feet because it's fun. I also climb trees while "running." Bare feet don't slip! I've changed my diet to run better and it's working (vegan now). I wear my InvisibleShoes everywhere, even with dresses, because they feel great (lately have been adding Injini toe socks when needed). This is something I do for me. I'm happy having the community here to share and ask questions but when it comes to my feet hitting the road, it's for me.



Gotta say I enjoy reading about what others are doing BF and how seriously they take their running, but no, I don't think that's my path. The path I want is a wide-open road with great scenery for some textural variety; no cars, no bikes, no people, no worries except hoping my energy level can keep up with my feet.
 
#24
skedaddle wrote:I just enjoy

skedaddle said:
I just enjoy running, simply, one foot in front of the other, that’s it. I hear so much about diet this and heart rate that, every man and his dog seems to have something to say on the matter. I’m sure if our ancestors adopted this type of thinking they would have starved to death, unless they developed a taste for snails, assuming they could catch them while keeping their heart rate down ;).

It all just seems overly complicated to me.
Click to expand...

I understand and agree to a degree. All those overly complicated things arent needed, but can help.

A few other notes... as compared to 'our ancestors' we are running for different reasons. They did it mostly out of necessity, now its more for recreation. All the advice and gadgets if used properly can make our training more efficient. I'd be curious to know if more people run farther/faster now than our ancestors did too. I think a higher percentage of people used to run, but I'd bet the more conditioned distance runners now run further and faster than before, aside from the Tarahumara tribes or something like that. Remember Pheidippides supposidely died after running the distance from the battlefield of Marathon to Athens - maybe if he had a HRM he might have lived? Or maybe with a GPS he could have made a shorter route. Dont know if that legend is true just saying...

I agree none of it is needed and often times I go out with nothing but clothing.
 
#25
I would guess that our

I would guess that our neanderthal ancestors ran much farther and faster than we did because they had to in order to survive, chase food, and they did it without all the gadgets, as evidenced by our mere presence on this earth, meaning we didn't die off. Since we have others who hunt and gather for us, we've become lazy (even during Pheidippides 's days).
 
#26
TristanCompared with our

Tristan

Compared with our ancestors we are just a bunch wimps, you only have to look at the state of peoples health in general populations to realise how lost, sedated and dependant we have become.

Why trust in the micro processor of a HRM when we already have a supercomputer called a brain, it makes no sense to me. Sure these things might enhance performance but in truth all you’re doing is masking natural feedback and replacing it with numbers and calculations, becoming de-sensitised, a Borg.

I must express again this is just a personal view, and also that no animals were harmed in the writing of this post :)
 
#27
Why trust in the micro

Why trust in the micro processor of a HRM when we already have a supercomputer called a brain .

Brilliant!
 
#30
7 of 9... been a long time

7 of 9... been a long time since I saw voyager, almost forgot about her!

But back to the topic before I need a cold shower lol... I try to see things from both sides. I dont even have a heart rate monitor (yet) I do have a garmin forerunner but dont often use it. About the only thing electronic I routinely bring is my phone and bluetooth headset since I like to listen to music and have phone for emergencies. I guess headlamp too if that counts, at least at night. I think science and technology can teach us some things, things that arent really obvious. For example, without any advice from the internet or gadgets or anything and going out and 'just running' I have been doing a lot of things WRONG and at worst have injured myself, and at best have not trained very efficiently. Now thats just me, and what I thought was 'normal' was thick cusioned shoes and 'no pain no gain'. If your naturally running ideally, then thats great. Some of us need a lot of help though, be it technical advice or a gadget, and can benefit from it with more efficient training. But there is something to be said about not needing anything and just enjoying the run and nature.
 
#31
skedaddle wrote:I just enjoy

skedaddle said:
I just enjoy running, simply, one foot in front of the other, that’s it.
Click to expand...

same here except, I've experienced what it means to be over-trained, and it ain't fun. It's a serious, risky condition that once it hits, never really goes away. So, there are methods available that make it possible to still enjoy running but avoid some of the side-effects, like heart attacks and whotnot.

Also, the 'just get out there and run' method results in many, many unnecessary injuries and other disappointments. Not everybody is as lucky as you ;)

But then there are ppl who just enjoy mixing a little technology in with their activities. So what if they do? Maybe they don't find it all that 'complicated'.
 
#32
TristanI agree with much of

Tristan

I agree with much of what you say, the point of this thread was to try balance the equation between natural running and the trappings of the modern world.

I’d just rather have a head full of wonder than a head full of statistics! Sure nobody wants to get injured, but there are no guarantees in running, you just roll the dice and hope that things are loaded in your favour. I read somewhere that 'pain is inevitable, suffering is optional’ So it’s good to have understanding of your body mechanics, form etc. But also be aware of your motivations, as it’s here that the real risk of injury lies, as TJ so eloquently put it ‘jumping through hoops’ to achieve your goals.



BFwillie_g

Yeh, i hear ya. But was it not the minds of men that thought it was a good idea for us tor run with air cushioned shoes?

Somewhere there has to be balance and an understanding of your own body’s strengths and limitations, we’re all different, and this is where these theories fall short as they rely on sweeping generalisations, not on what your body is telling you on any given day.

I’ve seen people on this forum jump from one training theory to another, this is how you get injured, this and the vanity of chasing the front of the pack.

So what i fear is that people turn to barefoot/minimal running forums to seek advice and guidance, a more natural way of running, only to be bombarded with a whole bunch of noise about heart rates, diets, milage vs time etc. This movement started out so simple, a few easily digestible bits of advice on form, taking things slowly, and away you go with a big grin on you face. Now the water is getting decidedly muddy, it’s getting hard to know what to believe anymore, hence my original thread question 'When did it all get so complicated?’
 
#33
Hi Skedaddle-- I've been

Hi Skedaddle-- I've been following this thread but didn't think I could add much more than what was already said. But now you ask again "when?" which I thought was rhetorical. Everything gets complicated when there are more people involved and there are now a lot more people BFing. How many members in BRS? 3000-4000? That's a lot of different ideas and opinions. I would bet that nearly all of us have gone out on a simple, just for the pleasure run a least once. But even if 10% then look to running in a race and ask, "How can I improve?" that's 300 people all talking about the latest theories. It seems to me there are a lot less than that actually posting here regularly. In the Maffetone thread, there's only 146 comments from what, maybe 20-30 different commenters.

Just trying to add some perspective.
smile.png
 
#34
randicootThanks for the

randicoot

Thanks for the grounding, i was beginning to feel like a lost puppy, sniffing here and peeing there, trying to make sense of our crazy BF world.

So you say 300 people, 146 comments, 20-30 different comments = statistics right? Argh i hate statistics! ;)
 
#35
skedaddle wrote:Somewhere

skedaddle said:
Somewhere there has to be balance and an understanding of your own body’s strengths and limitations, we’re all different, and this is where these theories fall short as they rely on sweeping generalisations, not on what your body is telling you on any given day.
Click to expand...

Oh, I don't know if I can ever agree with that. I don't think there's a much generalising going on as you're sensing. Now, individuals posting in forums (aka dudes on the internet) may well interpret things narrowly, based on their limited experience, but, no one should ever consider forum chatter as being in any way authoritative (goes for my own posts, too!). Theories and methods developed by people like Maffetone and Daniels et al are generally based on many years of experience and experimentation, and always take the individual into account and leave room for custom-tailoring.

But there's a lot of information out there these days (thanks, Internet) and it's easy to lose your bearings and become overwhelmed by it all - which is kind of how I have to re-formulate your thoughts so they fit in with my own biases ;-)

Which I why I agree with you here:

skedaddle said:
I’ve seen people on this forum jump from one training theory to another, this is how you get injured, this and the vanity of chasing the front of the pack.
Click to expand...



also, to attempt to answer your Q about why it's getting so complicated (overwhelming) I'd guess it's simply that there is so much info out there and as the sport takes hold and grows, more people are attracted to it, bringing their own experiences and ideas and personalities ... it's called 'progress', lol, and it isn't always all it's cracked up to be! :)

Btw, I thought your original post would be about all the damn shoe reviews and just shoes, shoes, shoes... and I was ready to just give a +1 when I opened the thread.
 
#36
BFwillie_gDont get me

BFwillie_g

Don’t get me wrong, i can enjoy a good theory as much as the next person, ‘String’ and ‘Chaos’ being my two favs, i also think i found the Higgs Boson Particle in my belly button fluff ;)

You must have heard the famous line ‘Born free ‘till somebody caught me’ i just don’t want to get caught by all the trappings thats all.

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction right?
 
#37
You crack me up, Ske!  So

You crack me up, Ske! So glad to have you here with all your anecdotes.

I think it comes down to using your own brain to figure out what's right for you and what's wrong for you. Just don't become brainwashed, once again, and jump on every bandwagon out there. That's what the shoe industry and the medical community did to us; they brainwashed us into thinking we HAD TO HAVE SHOES OR WE WOULD DIE!
 
#38
 randicoot Thanks for

randicoot Thanks for the
randicoot

Thanks for the grounding, i was beginning to feel like a lost puppy, sniffing here and peeing there, trying to make sense of our crazy BF world.

So you say 300 people, 146 comments, 20-30 different comments = statistics right? Argh i hate statistics!
wink.png




But just because it seems everyone else is getting complicated doesn't mean you have to. Perhaps there needs to be a seperate forum here where there is none of that talk allowed--maybe called Running Free. Would there be enough interest in that?
 
#39
I run for free.... Unless its

I run for free.... Unless its a race, in which case Im paying something like $2.50 per mile ran.... Or if Im in the local state park its around $.25 per mile depending on how far I run...
 
#40
skedaddle

skedaddle said:
BFwillie_g

Don’t get me wrong, i can enjoy a good theory as much as the next person, ‘String’ and ‘Chaos’ being my two favs, i also think i found the Higgs Boson Particle in my belly button fluff ;)

You must have heard the famous line ‘Born free ‘till somebody caught me’ i just don’t want to get caught by all the trappings thats all.

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction right?
Click to expand...

Skedaddle, I'm (or used to be) a big science nerd, have read several books on particle physics and quite a few of Hawking's books. I loved astrophysics too, but it was all just stuff I did on the side, no formal education (I went to school for electronics engineering). Still enjoy all that stuff but its been 10 years atleast since I have read any of that and cant remember hardly any of it! Now-a-days I appreciate the simple and uncomplicated... instead of wearing magnifying glasses and soldering circuits I enjoy wrenching on the tractor and my trucks, working in the garden and kayaking and hiking. Moved out of the city and have a nice view of the countryside now, so I can relate to both the overly technical training and just wanted to chill out for a nice jog free of technology ;)
 
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