What about pavement?

[Abide]

Is running on pavement going to cause long term problems in barefooters? I think we can agree that most barefoot cultures spend a majority of time on dirt, so do the benefits of being barefoot translate to harder surfaces?



"Like many well-intentioned barefoot advocates, fail to notice the 500 lb. Sasquatch in the room: its name is PAVEMENT. Feet have been evolving for 4-5 million years and are wonders of biomechanical engineering. They are well-suited for moving over the variable, natural terrain that humans encountered for 99.9999% of their evolution. Start pounding those same feet on hard, flat asphalt (or marble, tile, concrete, wood, you name it), and they break down quickly. And just for kicks, throw in an adult foot that's been severely compromised by years of abuse and is now expected to go run barefoot... on pavement. Disaster."
http://www.articlesbase.com/sports-and-fitness-articles/the-problem-with-barefoot-running-720542.html#ixzz155VRt97m

 

[Matt]

The problem with pavement (if

The problem with pavement (if there is a problem) is the consistency of it. I don't think the hardness is a factor at all. I think we ideally need some variation in surfaces. That's why I think treadmills aren't so great -- absolutely no variation at all in the surface.

If you are "pounding" the pavement, then you need to work on your form.

 

[hmduey]

I think the key word there is

I think the key word there is "pounding". If you're pounding, you're doing it wrong, right?

 

[Matt]

hmduey wrote:I think the key

I think the key word there is "pounding". If you're pounding, you're doing it wrong, right?

Right!!! And it's nearly impossible to "pound" unless you are wearing shoes.

 

[fetish4running]

I admit that I do worry a bit

I admit that I do worry a bit about the age factor mentioned. I'm 43 and have spent 41 years in shoes all the time. Even while in the house. I sure wish I had started this adventure 20 years ago! I do try to run as lightly as possible, though and I'm sure as heck not going to give it up! I think our bodies are amazing creations and can adapt nicely. I just need to be more careful than someone who's younger!

 

[stomper]

Matt wrote:The problem with

The problem with pavement (if there is a problem) is the consistency of it. I don't think the hardness is a factor at all. I think we ideally need some variation in surfaces.

I think Matt's on to something. When I started doing more pavement a month or so ago (instead of highly variable trails) I did notice some stresses in my body that I really didn't like. I realized that the trails were giving me a more "well rounded" workout, and that the pavement was giving me stress from repetition. But I've already adapted to the demands of running on pavement (for me, it was even shorter, faster steps than usual) and now it's fine.

So, those are short term results, when Abide asked about long term ones. We won't know for a while I guess. But we know about the long term results for shod running so really the bar to beat is not that high.

 

[Barefoot Mary]

I do wonder about the

I do wonder about the difference between packed dirt road running vs. pavement running. Zola Budd spent all her formative years running dusty African dirt roads and in grassy fields. Dirt roads can be pretty hard, but soft surfaces can be really cushy to the point of twisting ankles.

Has anyone done any scientific studies of density & hardness of surfaces? You'd think someone had by now...hm.

 

[stomper]

BTW the author of this

BTW the author of this article works or worked for Aline systems, "makers of the world's most advanced insole." So it's hardly a dispassionate critique. Here is what their product claims to do:

Luckily there is now a perfect middle ground between going barefoot and wearing unhealthy, performance-robbing, footwear: ALINE’s patented BFAST technology. ALINE’s BFAST design places the foot into a barefoot position inside your shoes; ALINEs raise the heel slightly to shift weight to your forefoot, as if you aren't wearing flat shoes. And, through its patented suspension zones, ALINE allows key bones in the foot to move properly…as they do when you walk barefoot. In other words, ALINE’s BFAST technology creates a natural interface within your footwear… regardless of sport or activity. This "Barefoot in Shoes™" position puts the foot in control of the footwear and the body. ALINEs enable the foot’s arches to naturally reshape, allowing the foot, ankle and knee to align themselves. A properly aligned foot and leg reduces injuries and improves your performance. That's why you owe it to yourself to find out what ALINE can do for you!

 

[Abide]

Oh yeah the web site and

Oh yeah the web site and their product are garbage. I just included it to stir the pot a little.

 

[saypay45]

I think the 500 lb Sasquatch

I think the 500 lb Sasquatch for the author is how putting on shoes would make running on pavement any better. If anything, it makes it worse. But I know tons of people who run pavement only well into their 60s and 70s -WITH SHOES- and do just fine. I'm not sure how we'll come out with less desirable results.

 

[jschwab]

All I know is in shoes I

All I know is in shoes I sought out any patch of dirt anywhere to give my feet a break and now barefoot and in minimalist shoes, it's simply not an issue. My feet never hurt.

 

[Matt]

jschwab wrote:All I know is

All I know is in shoes I sought out any patch of dirt anywhere to give my feet a break and now barefoot and in minimalist shoes, it's simply not an issue. My feet never hurt.

When I ran in shoes, my knees would ache just looking at concrete. Now, I enjoy all kinds of surfaces.

 

[NakedSoleNate]

 pavement is easy and feels

pavement is easy and feels springy and soft to me...packed dirt often feels harder, especially in the heat of a dry summer...I do prefer trail running, not because of "softness" but because of the variety that has been spoken about....the trail I usually run on have about a mile of macadam until I get to them...so I warm up my tootsies on the smooth pavement, hit the trails for a few miles, then "cool" down on the smooth pavement...pavement is like desert to me after a few miles of gravel, rock, and rooted trails!

It really is the "pounding" thing that was talking about...if your foot-fall is light, it's easy to glide across pavement...concrete sidewalks are a bit harder than the roads, but still cause me no problems.

 

[ajb422]

 I think anyone who is overly

I think anyone who is overly worried about this has never run on pavement barefoot for any length of time. Sure it allows your form to slip more than running on gravel but its way better than in shoes.

 

[Abide]

Hey I'm worried, that is all

Hey I'm worried, that is all I run on. I am more concerned about longevity. Sure it is better barefoot than in shoes, however as I ramp up my mileage my joints are definitely feeling it more. Including my feet, ankles, knees and hips.

 

[ajb422]

Abide wrote: Hey I'm worried,

Hey I'm worried, that is all I run on. I am more concerned about longevity. Sure it is better barefoot than in shoes, however as I ramp up my mileage my joints are definitely feeling it more. Including my feet, ankles, knees and hips.

Sorry that came out totally wrong. I meant it terms of being barefoot rather than shoes. As in arguing that because we run on pavement we NEED shoes. Whether pavement itself is good or bad for running is sort of different my mind. I just meant to say if I have to run on pavement for 10 miles I'm less sore doing it barefoot than in shoes. That to me means that if I'm forced to run on pavement I should worry less about it if I'm bf. Even on my long shod runs as soon as I hit sidewalks I get annoyed and take my shoes off for the last 2 paved miles or my hips hurt.

 

[Blind Boy]

Nate and Mary: I've read

Nate and Mary: I've read somewhere that concrete and certainn types of dried clay are about equal in hardness, right up there with granite and other really hard stuff.

I agree with the rest of you, hardness is probably less important than the lack of variation. There are plenty of "natural" surfaces that are as hard or even harder than pavement. They're rarely flat, though. Also, with almost no impact spike when we touch down the hardness of the surface shouldn't matter much. A soft surface can reduce the impact shock but if there's no shock to reduce, well...

 

[stomper]

While I stick with the idea

While I stick with the idea that it's the lack of variety that is the major problem with pavement for barefoot runners, I get the subjective impression that there is a lot of variation between types of pavement. An asphalt road on a warm day is kind of soft and cushy compared to a concrete sidewalk. I googled around a bit and couldn't find any numerical comparisons between those two surfaces, though apparently highway engineers do measure hardness. But I never would have noticed any of this if I hadn't been running BF. Recently I've been discovering that bigleaf maple leaves can turn a horrid gravel track into a luxurious massage.

 

[Barefoot Fresca]

fetish4running,I am 49 and

fetish4running,

I am 49 and started BF running this summer. I had not been walking around barefoot for many years, due to mistakingly thinking that because I was overweight it would hurt me unless I had supportive shoes (just to walk around in).

I also recently was reading an article about how the fat pads thin out as people age. (It was in this magazine about plastic surgery -- don't ask me why I was reading it.) So the "older" people can wear high heels they have this fat injection treatment where they inject the pads of the feet so they can continue to wear high heels.

Before I type my opinions here I have to say that my opinions are VERY amateur and only my own and I'm not a doctor, nor a sports coach, nor a particularly fast or good runner. But I have been thinking about this stuff concerning my barefoot running a lot because learning about myself is a constant gathering of knowledge and then trying it out and then assessing as I attempt to be my own best fitness coach.

For one thing, over the summer, the pads on my feet thickened and plumped up. I think I read in Michael Sandler's book that the body sends fat to the area when it senses the new activity demands being placed on the foot. So I figured that barefoot running may be beneficial to aging in that regard and may even reverse or remedy, rather than tear down.

There's a balance in tearing down and recovery. I think when people are older they may need more recovery time. I am very very very careful to pay attention to my body's signals and balance the time spent in growth and repair (I hear the muscles grow and repair while sleeping). I think if the balance of "tearing down" is greater, then maybe that's when there is potential danger.



Oh, I found a picture of the procedure. It's called fat pad augmentation



Foot Fat-Pad Augmentation

Gross, isn't it? I'm not sure about this, but I have a feeling barefoot running could be something that would prevent having to do something like this.

Oh, wanted to mention that I live in an urban area and run mostly on hard surfaces.

 

[barefoot.zumba.runner]

Ask me when I'm 100, that's

Ask me when I'm 100, that's about as long as I intend on running barefoot on pavement

I have to believe that folks (for ages) have also run on rocky surfaces/boulders as well as packed dirt? (While pavement, concrete etc isn't natural, it's made from naturally occuring substances..rock, etc)Our bodies are pretty amazing, and adapt to the stresses we put them through. Maybe this is the next prelude to the next step in human evolution...super solid unbreakable bones