Stumptown Smackdown

[Barefoot TJ]

I would say Stumptown's reputation rests on your actions, not mine.

That says it ALL right there.

What I don't like about Jason and Jeremy is that they keep bringing their "personal" feelings into it, talking about their love of running, coffee, etc., and how that's somehow been harmed. They are not acting professionally. There should be a policy, and they should stand by it, and if there isn't one, they need to admit it and move on, but they keep talking about their "feelings." This is not about THEIR feelings. This is about YOURS, the customer's and the only one who matters. I wonder what the owner would think about all this.

 

[stjohnthegambler]

Thanks TJ. Since Jeremy posted a comment on my blog, I checked my visit stats, and they've gone up, so other people are watching. I can only speculate on what the owner thinks. I mean, I'm sure he thinks I'm crazy, but I do wonder how he thinks his employees have handled the whole situation.

Interestingly, I've been 'smacked down' at the Society for Barefoot Living FB page. Overwhelmingly, people there seem to think I was rude to put my feet up on the ouch. <shrug>

 

[Sid]

What I don't like about Jason and Jeremy is that they keep bringing their "personal" feelings into it

I thought that to be odd as well, especially for a business letter.

 

[happysongbird]

Thanks TJ. Since Jeremy posted a comment on my blog, I checked my visit stats, and they've gone up, so other people are watching. I can only speculate on what the owner thinks. I mean, I'm sure he thinks I'm crazy, but I do wonder how he thinks his employees have handled the whole situation.

Interestingly, I've been 'smacked down' at the Society for Barefoot Living FB page. Overwhelmingly, people there seem to think I was rude to put my feet up on the ouch. <shrug>

I got a much better sense here about what was going on than on the SBL post. All the follow up gave me a better picture of what was going on.

 

[Sid]

Those couches don't look all that comfy.

 

[stjohnthegambler]

Ha! Yeah, that's the place. The couches are actually kinda weird to sit on, on a weird angle, but I wasn't going to bring that up. It was otherwise I cool place to hang out. A bit noisy for some people, but I found that that kept the cellphone talkers at bay.

 

[Barefoot TJ]

I'm not saying to do this, but I wonder if you had told them that you would put your sweater under your feet, so that they did not touch the couch, would they still have a problem with your feet? Meaning, it really wasn't about your putting your feet up on the couch, because you could have done that in shoes, and they wouldn't have complained. It was really about the fact that you were barefoot. I can't stand it when people are not honest.

 

[Barefoot TJ]

Interestingly, I've been 'smacked down' at the Society for Barefoot Living FB page. Overwhelmingly, people there seem to think I was rude to put my feet up on the ouch. <shrug>

That blows my mind! Coming from the SBL of all places. Wow!

 

[Sid]

It seems that those in the minority or seeking to make a good impression on others often dress nicely and display their best manners, so as not to give people any excuses to discriminate. So, maybe SBL is just trying to do the same (not that you weren't dressed nicely or displaying good manners!)
Tufts−led study shows that clothing affects racial perceptions

An interdisciplinary team of researchers ... found that contextual clues ... were integral to the study participants' perception.

I've often suspected that I don't get hassled around my neighborhood while running or walking the dogs, because I have technical wear and gear when running and the dogs are purebred sighthounds. Perhaps, due to the contextual clues, people give me the benefit of the doubt, such that I've made an educated decision to leave the shoes at home, rather than just a lifestyle choice.

I've always been impressed by how professionally door to door missionaries are dressed, and they certainly are polite.
https://missionary.lds.org/dress-grooming/elder/guidelines/?lang=eng

Your appearance is often the first message others receive, and it should support what you say.

After reading the articles above, I wonder, would people treat barefooters differently, if we wore fancy business attire, too?

 

[Barefoot TJ]

I wonder. But it's certainly hard to run in business attire. Maybe casual? Hee.

 

[ChasingShadows]

Wow, cultural difference strikes again - I'm honestly shocked that it's seen as so acceptable to put your feet on coffee shop furniture. And people also do this in shoes? Uck! I may be tempted to sneakily do something like that in the UK on occasion (without shoes), but I would feel it was bad manners & I'd certainly be half expecting to be asked not to, and happy to comply.

 

[stjohnthegambler]

Well, I mean, it's a couch. Don't people in England get comfy on couches? Or wait, don't you call them something else over there? Divans? Or something?

 

[ChasingShadows]

Comfy, yes. Feet on the couch, other than in my own home or that of close friends, generally no. And never, never in shoes!

 

[migangelo]

jeez, are people eating on couches? don't they know hands transfer germs and not so much your feet? i mean people do use their hands to go to the bathroom and don't always wash their hands. do they make everyone wash their hands when they come in? do they make sick people leave? i bet not so why do they draw the line at bf? how is bf unsafe? do they require steel toed shoes for safety? what about a hardhat? gloves? bp vest? goggles? do shoes keep people from getting hurt or slipping? if they're concerned about safety do they make people leave in high heels or flip flops? do they allow people to wear sunglasses inside?

many questions you can use to show people their stupidity. sadly, most won't notice.

 

[Hobbit]

I think ChasingShadows brought up a good point here: If I leave my house to be in a place with other people, most of the time I have to adjust my usual behavior to be acceptable by society's standards. I have to show some kind of "good manners", which vary of course in each group context. Good manners are the key to belong to a group. If my idea of "good manners" coincide with the other persons' idea of "good manners", there won't be any problem (i.e. barefoot in a mosque: everybody will be happy). But if they don't coincide, there will be problems: the others will try to get rid of me and use a lot of bullsh$t arguments to rationalize their aversion against someone who quite obviously doesn't seem to belong - and who doesn't even wish to make an effort.

 

[stjohnthegambler]

Well, who decides what are "good manners"? And should having an 'aversion' to someone be grounds to 1. act rudely to them, and 2. refuse their business? There are things people do every day that I'm averse to (like talking loudly on cellphones) but I put up with it (or not, sometimes if it's really annoying I'll say something). And, these things, these 'standards' are variable. For example, some cafes allows dogs. I actually think/feel THAT is a little unhygenic, but not to the point of freaking out. Just kinda odd.

Again, we're talking about a couch in a cafe. To me, that invites getting comfortable, including putting one's feet up on it in shoes. I know that may not sound ok in Europe, or parts of the US, but it's fairly common, at least in some cafes. So, if bad manners it the arugment, ok, fine, but again, who decides? And will the young baristas have some kind of training about what is manners? And will the enforce good manners equally? For example, I'm in a cafe right now and some guy is just reeking of body odor. Is it kinda gross? Yes. Do I really effing care? No. Do I think it's probably bothering others? Yes.

At a deeper level, I'd question people's willingness to just conform to what society wants. Society thinks we shouldn't say anything about our country bombing other people in other countries. 'That's just the way it is. That's what the CIA does.' I'd say our government and their corporate overlords LOVE to hear people just going along with what society wants.

Ok, that's my rant. Flame on!

 

[Hobbit]

Well, who decides what are "good manners"? And should having an 'aversion' to someone be grounds to 1. act rudely to them, and 2. refuse their business? There are things people do every day that I'm averse to (like talking loudly on cellphones) but I put up with it (or not, sometimes if it's really annoying I'll say something). And, these things, these 'standards' are variable. For example, some cafes allows dogs. I actually think/feel THAT is a little unhygenic, but not to the point of freaking out. Just kinda odd.

Again, we're talking about a couch in a cafe. To me, that invites getting comfortable, including putting one's feet up on it in shoes. I know that may not sound ok in Europe, or parts of the US, but it's fairly common, at least in some cafes. So, if bad manners it the arugment, ok, fine, but again, who decides? And will the young baristas have some kind of training about what is manners? And will the enforce good manners equally? For example, I'm in a cafe right now and some guy is just reeking of body odor. Is it kinda gross? Yes. Do I really effing care? No. Do I think it's probably bothering others? Yes.

At a deeper level, I'd question people's willingness to just conform to what society wants. Society thinks we shouldn't say anything about our country bombing other people in other countries. 'That's just the way it is. That's what the CIA does.' I'd say our government and their corporate overlords LOVE to hear people just going along with what society wants.

Ok, that's my rant. Flame on!

Hey, that's exactly my point: what is considered as "good manners" depends on cultural and social background but also on personal background. To act rudely because of some personal aversion can also be considered as bad manners by yet another bunch of people...
This is not to justify the rejection of bare feet, but it kinda explains it. It's interesting, that the cafe's employees don't mind heavy body odor but do mind clean naked feet on a couch. (I could never understand this rejection of barefeet, but now, with the "good manners"- approach, I think I finally get it)

"The willingness of people to conform to what society wants" equals to "people prefer to be loved by others rather than rejected" If I question that, if I reject to just go along with what society wants (and I do!), I should not be astonished to also encounter rejection from time to time. The question is: how do I feel about it and what do I do about it?
My personal solution (I don't pretend it's a good solution) is avoidance: I don't mingle with society, don't go into cafes and live a rather hermit-like lifestyle.
Another solution might be to open my own chain of barefoot friendly cafes and thus create on a small level some new kind of society I like and feel accepted in. And this might even have some influence on a larger scale...

 

[XX Dogfather]

My personal solution (I don't pretend it's a good solution) is avoidance: I don't mingle with society, don't go into cafes and live a rather hermit-like lifestyle.

Sometimes this is the only choice... It doesn't mean I like it but as I have made a decision to stick with my lifestyle choice it is inevitable a lot of the time.

I will fight my corner when I know there is some chance of success and often end up showing whoever is trying to make me conform to their idea of the "norm" that my decision is informed and intelligent.

However quite often people become belligerent or downright rude as their idea of manners has been insulted. In those cases I don't want to get into an argument (or to offend them further) so I remove myself from the situation.

After all, If I am not welcome in one cafe I will be in another.....

On a side note, I find that the colder or wetter the weather the more extreme peoples reactions seem to be. I live on the coast. In the summer I can go into no end of cafe's or pubs barefoot. In the winter I am always being challenged.

 

[Bare Lee]

A lot of people get pretty edgy when they're high on recreational caffeine and/or drinking low-fat dairy products.
Some even go so far as to plot revolutions and launch insipid philosophical movements while sitting around buzzed in cafés.
What we need is a strong State to prohibit all drugs and footwear.
Then we can all curl up in comfy couches and chew spicy cashews.

 

[stjohnthegambler]

Ok, sorry I overreacted. I thought I was being accused of bad manners, here. Which, may indeed be part of what happened, though I also think people's freak outs also have to do with them thinking going barefoot is unhygenic, which may tie into the bad manners things anyways.

I think I'm still a little hurt and raw from my criticism from some of the SBL folks on their FB page. That's the thing, all of this is so unexpected.

But, I don't like that you guys are holing yourselves up in your hobbit holes because you like to go barefoot. I can't offer a good solution, since you may get smacked down like me, but surely you are welcome in society, wherever you live. Anyways, thanks for writing here in this thread. Have a good weekend, folks, I hope to be offline for a few days!