Strength Training for Singles 2014: Eight-Week Workout Cycle I

Discussion in 'Training Information/Training Regimens' started by Bare Lee, Aug 12, 2014.

  1. Abide

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    Week 5
    Monday 9/8/14
    Goblet Squats ---1 x 10 x 32kgs
    Deadlift ------------EMOM x 4 x 155Kgs
    Neutral Pull Up --2 x 6
    AM bike commute - 36:31
    Lunch time sun salutations
    PM bike commute - 39:32
    -
    Frustrating morning, had my second youngest join me in the gym and couldn't get focused to hit the 155's on DL.
    Thinking maybe the EMOM for 10 might be tough the higher in weight I go. 155 is 94% of my 1RM. I'm gonna give it a go again hopefully later tonight.
    -
    Tuesday 9/9/14
    2k warmup run
    Squats -----------1 x 10 x 60kgs
    Swings ---------- 1 x 20 x 32Kgs
    Inc Press -------- 2 x 5 x 80kgs
    Inv Rows --------- 1 x 10
    N Pull Ups ------- 1 x 9
    Press--------------- 2 x 5 x 60kgs
    Farmers ---------- 80m x 95kgs
    -
    AM bike commute - 37:31
    Lunch yoga
    PM bike commute - 36:00
    -
    Dickish comment of the week. I discovered the trick to Maff training. If you want to be really good at low heart rate training, train at higher heart rates more frequently and it will instantly make your LHR attempts much faster. I did the nasal breathing on the last nights and this mornings ride and amazingly my times were not too bad. So I am going to forget about the LHR thing unless I just want to take it easy or force myself to slow down, however on a regular basis I am going to ride and run hard.
    -
    Wednesday 9/10/14
    AM 5k walk

    Thursday 9/11/14
    AM 12 mile easy run
    Lunch 20 min Yoga
    PM Bike Commute 17.6k - 39:52

    Had a really nice run into work today. Tested out a new pack I bought a couple of weeks ago. really happy with it.

    Friday 9/12/14
    TBDL ------------- 3 x 3 x 125Kgs
    Gob Sq ---------- 1 x 10 x 31Kgs
    Bench -------------2 x 5 x 100kgs
    Pull Ups ---------- 3 x 5
    KB Rows --------- 3 x 5 x 32kgs both arms
    Famers ----------- 1 x 80m x 95kgs
    AM Bike Commute 17.6k - 37:09
    Lunch yoga
    PM Bike Commute 17.6k - 38:02
    Sunday I am riding in a trail duathlon. I have never done a MTB race so it will be interesting what they are like. I'll probably take tomorrow off or maybe just take a quick loop around the track to make sure the bike is all ready to go.

    Sunday 9/13/2014
    Trail duathlon - 7k run / 23k MTB / 3k run 2:14
    -
    Race went well, no wipeouts but I did bonk pretty hard towards the end. I didn't take any water or calories with which was pretty silly of me. The MTB course was fun had a good mix of forest roads and single track with a few steep grades. The run went great for the first 7k I was hitting 9mm for the ups and sub 8s going down, until I got to the portion where we ran around a quarry/mine and the rocky mine road really influenced my pace. I wore my VFF spyridions unfortunately, wish I would have gone with a better trail shoe. Next time I am not going to take any chances and I am going to stick with a non-minimalist option unless I know the trail is somewhat foot friendly. The last 3k is around the quarry for the second time and I was running 10:30mm by then dodging around all the rocks. I hit close to my estimated time and the total length of the course was 33k or 20.5 miles.

     
  2. Abide

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    Yeah that was kind of my logic with the running twice a week. It's making me think a little more my current plan and my future running aspirations. Trying to mesh the two together a little more and maybe having a little more flexibility in the weight room. Also with the bike commute I am thinking about maybe trying to focus on very easy aerobic efforts to help assist recovery. I think I may be pushing them a little hard right now. Sunday's run/bike was a little tougher than I imagined. The run was eas but then jumping on a bike was tough, although I came very close to hitting a PR on the course and I felt like I was going terribly slow. So that's good. I'll get a better gauge where my 2 hour efforts are at after the race next Sunday.
     
  3. Bare Lee

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    WEEK 5

    Is it week five already?

    Sunday
    Hauling picnic stuff from car to picnic table and back again on St. Croix River. Had to be at least a mile altogether, so I got in my loaded carries. Wish we would've brought the stroller so I could've loaded it up. Beautiful early fall/late summer day. A crowd of Russians occupied the next table over about 50 feet.

    Monday

    AM:
    One-mile walk-commute. Left knee feels better but when I tried to run a few steps, it didn't feel good on landing. I'll try to keep walking on it until it's 100%, and focus on ST in the meantime. It's frustrating, I really feel the need to run. I'll also try to be a bit more attentive to massaging and stretching, as per Abide's advice.

    PM: one-mile walk-commute. Stretching and massaging my lower leg seems to really help, but I didn't run cuz I didn't want to risk aggravating the left knee before my deadlift session.

    Deadlift: 3x1x335, 3x3x295, 2x5x255
    DB Row: 3x3x105
    OH Press: 1x1x125, 1x1x115, 4/3/5x105
    Cable Row: 3x5x150

    Well, finally got in a fairly full version of my workout scheme, and it took 50 minutes total. I skipped the Russian Twists at the end because I'm still experimenting a bit with which lifts irritate my left shoulder, and want to limit variables.

    The deadlift sets, reps and weight increments were perfect. Challenging, but not taxing, mentally or physically.

    I didn't do 125 for the db rows because last Friday I felt the p-rows possibly irritated my left shoulder. Triples at 105 it was a little too easy though. That's supposed to be my quintuple weight.

    I supersetted the rows with the OH Press. 125 for the OH Press went up without a push, but I didn't want to spend a lot of time on singles, so I lowered it ten pounds for my triples, but 115 felt a little heavy, albeit still without a push, so I took off ten more pounds, intending to do five reps, but it was only on the third set that five reps felt comfortable. Funny. I wonder if I could've done triples at 115 if I hadn't done the 125 single? In general, it felt like I hadn't recovered completely from Friday's OH Presses, so I may have to dial things back now that I'm doing them 3x over two weeks instead of once a week.

    I did 150 instead of 170 on the Cable Rows also with a view to keeping them a little light to see if this helps keep the left shoulder irritation down.

    Tuesday
    AM: my left shoulder only feels a little creaky, so I'll massage it some throughout the day. Hopefully I'm zeroing in on a routine and proper sets/reps/weights to keep the thing in check.

    My left knee feels 100% and there's a beautiful harvest moon, but I decided to put off the run until the afternoon so I could massage and stretch the lower leg some more before trying to run on it.

    PM: Didn't run.

    Wednesday
    AM: Ran the first 2/3s of my one-mile run commute. Both knees felt a little something coming on, so I walked the last bit. Still, I'm hopeful this means I'm back in the game. I'll try to increase the running portion of the morning run/walk gradually until I get it up to three miles. Probably not a bad approach for implementing the daily 5k plan anyway.

    PM: Ran halfway home. Knee felt OK.
    Then ST:

    Squats: 3x1x245(111), 3x3x215(98), 2x5x185(84)
    Bench Press: 3x1x335(107), 1x1x215(98), 3x3x205(93), 2x5x185(84).
    Pulldown, neutral: 3x5x150(68)
    Pulldown, supine: 3x5x150(68)

    Squats went well, perfect really. Challenging without being too taxing. I could probably bump up the singles by ten pounds, but my form might suffer a bit.

    Warming up on the bench, my left shoulder felt creaky, and I thought about blowing it off, but by the time I got to my singles, everything felt fine. 235 was a good weight. I don't think I could've done 345 three times. On the triples, I tried to reduce just 20 pounds, to 215, but I could tell immediately that I'd never make it through all my reps, so I reduced another ten pounds, and the triples went really well with that weight. The quintuples were also spot on, fatiguing but with good bar speed.

    On the pulldowns I went with 150 instead of the planned 170, and that was just right. I got through three sets of quintuples for both the neutral and supine grips. I think the pulldowns work better for me than the chinups because I can limit the range of motion a little, so the shoulder doesn't extend quite as much.

    Holy frick! Great workout. Got a good pump and used up a lot of energy, yet everything remained doable throughout. This is the second workout in a row I've managed to do a fairly complete version of my 1/3/5 scheme with just three lifts, and it's really a good way to go. I could see doing this indefinitely. I'm almost tempted to put my rubber hex dumbbells in storage or sell them. I think I've finally become convinced of Rippetoe and RDL's ultra minimalist approach, although I use 6 lifts instead of their respective 4 and 3.

    Thursday
    A head cold provided a convenient excuse to let the left knee rest some more, so I didn't run.

    Friday
    Still feeling sick and tired, but a little better. I thought about blowing off the ST, but I really wanted to see how a full week of the new scheme felt, so I went ahead with it.

    Deadlift: 3 x 1 x 335, 3 x 3 x 295, 5/8-9 x 255
    P-Row: 3 x 5 x 165
    Y-Row: 3 x 3 x 185
    OH Press: 3/1 x 115, 5/4/1 x 105

    Man, 335 felt super heavy. Musta been the illness. But I managed to get through the deadlifts with longish breaks, maintaining good form, and then on the last set, at 255, found myself doing close to 10 reps with pretty good bar speed. Wow, that felt good. I had to sit down after that one. I was winded.

    The rows went fine, although I sometimes wonder if it might be best just to stick to DB rows and Cable rows. The barbell rows, especially the P-Row, do strain the lower back a bit.

    By the time I got to the OH press, I was pretty much spent. I only managed one triple at 115. On the second set I gave up after one rep. I could've done more if my life depended on it, but it didn't, so I didn't. The quintuples at 105 felt a little better, but my energy quickly dissipated. I missed a rep on the second set and gave up on the last set. It was time for shower, protein shake, pick up the kids, and a nice ribeye to aid protein synthesis in recovery.

    That's the second time this week that I wasn't able to get through my OH Presses as planned, so maybe I need to reduce weight, and try 3x3x105 & 2x5x95, instead of 3x3x115 & 2x5x105? Maybe establish that for a week or two, and if it goes OK, add five pounds, for 3x3x110 & 2x5x100.

    That evening, while watching Despicable Me 2 with the kids, my back felt pretty beat up. Not a pump, but more like someone had repeatedly hit me with a baseball bat with moderate force a few days before or something. I think this week's workouts are at close to the limit of my ability to recover from them. We'll see how I do when I can add running back in. I might have to back off a bit, maybe drop a set from both the singles and the triples on the heavy lifts.

    Saturday
    AM: ran most of my one-mile commute.
    PM: one-mile run-commute. Knee feels OK, so hopefully I'll be able to run again next week. I might just do two miles to begin with.
     
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  4. Bare Lee

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    It really is hard to focus with the little ones hanging around, especially on the big lifts.

    Even under better conditions though, 10 reps at 94% is ambitious, it seems to me.

    Is 165kg your 1RM then? I thought you did a little higher than that at the end of your 40-day program. Maybe I have a chance in our DL contest after all.
     
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  5. Abide

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    Ha you totally have a chance, increasing cardio sessions and weight loss are not good things for a DL competition. Well I did pull 170 I think but with the trap bar not a barbell. I did 150 last week and they went up pretty well. I guess a 5kg increase is a decent jump. I need to get over the KG/LBS. variation I think and maybe make more reasonable jumps? I have also been considering switching the lifting sessions to the evening to see if its a little easier then? I've also been thinking maybe a 4-5 day 3 lift program?
     
  6. Bare Lee

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    Supposedly, mid-morning is optimal for lifting. Your body has warmed up, you have at least one meal in you, and testosterone levels are high. But I've always liked lifting around 4-4:30pm, after I've eaten at least two meals. I can't really imagine doing a big lift first thing in the morning. Although, as I've mentioned before, my sense is that early morning running might be the ticket for me. I don't know why, but I get this feeling that it should be possible to run at least a few miles pretty much every day and that this would be the best plan for me. I have an image of me zipping through 5Ks at a pretty good clip in about 6 months.

    Hmnn, so we're close then, in the DL. I did 365/166 a week or two ago, but my back rounded at the top, so it was a technical fail.

    A five kg increase could be reasonable, but maybe 2.5 would be better? That's what I've been thinking lately, and that's why I picked up the 2.5-pound weights a few weeks ago.

    What would the three lifts be? Squat, deadlift, and bench?

    I don't think you want to neglect the rows. I think they're really helping both my bench and my deadlift, maybe also my squat and OH Press. Seems like a strong back is the platform for everything else. I don't know why rows are neglected in so many of the basic or minimalist approaches.

    For me, I think the most minimal I can go is the six basic lifts or force/directions: Squat, Deadlift, Row, Bench, Pullup/Pulldown, and Press. For assistance, there's also a few exercises that are close to essential: Dips & Pullovers for pushes; Russian twists & Hyperextensions for pulls.

    I'd be interested in hearing your ideas for a five-day program. I'm really anxious to implement the two-week cycle/six-workout idea this week:

    DL, Row, Press
    SQ, Bench, Pulldown
    DL, Row, Press

    SQ, Bench, Pulldown
    DL, Row, Press
    SQ, Bench, Pulldown

    That's just three lifts per workout, with a few optional assistance lifts.

    Funny, I used to hate squats, but over the weekend I had a real jones to get back at them. I'm becoming addicting to the movement's feeling. Thanks for turning me on to the AtG/deep squats, that's been the key to enjoying them. I think my favorites are the five-rep squats, where the form feels really good and the bar speed is relatively fast. Even though squats and deadlifts are supposed to be mirror images of each other, I think deadlifts are more conducive to low reps, whereas squats seem more conducive to higher reps. Same thing seems to hold for the upper body, with lower reps for rows versus pullups/pulldowns, as well as bench press versus OH Press. I'll keep doing squat singles though, at least once in the two-week cycle.

    I'm on the T-Nation subscription list now. Not much new info, but good for motivation. Just gotta make sure the endless variety doesn't distract me from my program, which I think is pretty good now. Minimalist ST is similar to barefoot running. It sometimes takes a little convincing that you don't need a whole lot to get results.
     
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  7. Abide

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    If your hips lockout technically its not a fail. Yeah I think I am sitting right around the 370 level, not exactly sure but its close. It's funny how initially you see some good jumps but then the gainz definitely level off fast.

    Mornings are tough but at this point I have been lifting in the AM for so long its hard to change and its not very convienient with the family life right now to lift after work. I think I might just try to keep the intensity lower maybe, I have been doing 2-3 hard efforts lately and I think its better to have one focus lift for the day and then treat the rest as easy lifts. So ME for one lift and then 3-5 reps around 80% for the others.

    If I were to do a 2-3 lift/day x 5 days a week program I think I would still try to mimic DJ's 5 foundational movement patterns with the six directions like you.

    DL / Press / Pull Ups
    Bench / Gob SQ / BB Rows
    SQ / DB Rows / Suitcase Carries
    Farmers / Inc Press / Swings
    TBDL / Weighted Pull Ups / Farmers

    This is just equip limitations for me. I would do the Russian twists and face pulls if I had the equipment too.

    Yeah same thing happened to me today. I think the key to happiness with squats for me is to keep it lighter with great form. At 60kgs today it felt like a good pump and stretch, everything clicked. Maybe I should just do a quick set of ten of back squats each day for a warm up at 60kgs for a while to grease the groove? Then on squat days make a big jump to do a big effort for a rep or two?

    OH press at 60kgs went well at 2 x 5 also. My 5 rm is getting better but not sure about my 1RM. I guess that doesnt really matter though because higher reps seem to be a bit safer for the joints anyway. Maybe just push the DL as hard as I can for a bit more and then adopt a year long slow continual improvement plan for the rest? Trying to firm up my next year of running and I am thinking about possibly attempting a 100 miler next summer. I would love to see what happens to my strength levels and body comp with higher mileage running weeks.
     
  8. Bare Lee

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    I'm not sure, but I don't think my hips locked out--rounding the back and not locking out the hips are kinda the same thing for me I think. So basically, I'm just 10 pounds or so behind you. I got a chance, but I sense that you have better genetics for lifting and you also have more experience. I have a bigger frame though, so we're probably well-matched. I won't be trying any new PRs until October probably. It would be nice to get 365 out of the way though.

    I also like the idea of only one ME lift per workout. I sort of have that now, except I have to combine squats and bench on the same day in order to do either deadlifts or squats each workout. Still, ME Bench doesn't tax me nearly as much as ME squats and deadlifts. The deadlifts are the real killer, and I'm doing 100 pounds more than the bench or squats. With all the other lifts, it doesn't make much sense to do singles, so 3-5 reps is the natural range. I liked how reduced weight in the db rows at 3x3x105 yesterday helped me get through them quickly, but other days I'll be up for 3x3x125.

    I misunderstood. I thought you meant five days over a certain time period, I didn't realize you meant five consecutive days per week. That's a lot, but I guess if you keep it relatively light and lower total rep count it could work. I find it hard to do consecutive days for more than a few days in a row. I need that 48 hours of recovery. It will be interesting to see how this scheme goes if you follow through on it.
    Yah, lighter squats with good form is the way to go. Five reps feels really good, but I'll keep after the singles and triples for the time being. For your scheme, I like the idea of warming up every day with lighter squats and then really hitting it just once a week. I find squats interfere most with my running though, so I don't think everyday would work for me, but maybe with lighter weights it could. Hopefully, after another few months my quads won't feel so sore after the squats workout.

    With my 1/3/5 scheme, based on my true 1RM, I think I have a pretty good set-up now for slow, continual improvement. I'm not even sure I'll be pushing the deadlifts that much, or if it's even possible without bringing everything else up, especially the squats and rows, at the same time. I was really happy with how my 3x1x335, 3x3x295, 2x5x255 deadlifts felt yesterday. I was able to limit the rest between sets to about a minute, except when I had to change plates, when the rest interval was more like two minutes. Going much beyond 335 and I need more rest, so I'm not going to want to do super heavy singles more than once in a two-week cycle, but maybe I could limit it to once a month? Kind of like my long runs. Last fall I was going on a 10-to-15-mile long run every week, but I think once or twice a month is probably better for me. It's nice to have more of a workaday approach and let the gains come on their own, without having to worry about recovery and fueling so much like you do on long runs and heavy singles.
    That's the way it's supposed to work. All three energy systems are interconnected, training one helps the others. I remember after doing mountain passes while traveling by bicycle, how my aerobic pace always seemed to get a boost afterwards on flatter terrain. Of course, the best way towards LHR riding is to have a strong tail wind.

    LSD, Tempo, Intervals/Hills. (Almost) everybody agrees the secret is finding the right combination and ratios if you want to accelerate your rate of improvement and exploit your potential. I view rep counts in ST as sort of the same thing, although the analogy isn't exact. Singles are like sprints, triples are like tempo, and 5-8 reps are like LSD. Although only the last starts to exploit the glycolytic system (corresponding to tempo running), and none the oxidative (which corresponds to LSD), the analogy holds inasmuch as each rep count trains the muscles differently and yet each rep count benefits strength gains in the others. That's my theory anyway, and it's backed up by Westside's ME vs. DE distinction. I view 1 and 3 reps as more or less ME, and 5-8 reps as DE. I just find it easier to put it all in one workout, although I can see how there would be benefits to keeping them separate. In any case, with 5-8 reps, I really focus on moving the bar as fast as possible, making them "dynamic." Dan John recently had an article in T-Nation referencing complexes:
    http://www.t-nation.com/training/mass-made-simple
    http://www.t-nation.com/training/screw-cardio-four-complexes-for-a-shredded-physique

    Might be something to try after strength gains really taper off in a year or two.
     
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  9. Bare Lee

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    I'm going to put all the workouts in one cumulative post like Abide did, but I think this might be best on the first page. I'm reposting the first week's workouts here so that I can edit out all the notes/comments there.

     
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  10. Abide

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    This is a good idea, with west side they mix up lifts every 4 weeks to prevent the CNS burnout and in 531 he recommends taking off a week after 3 week cycles to let your body recover. Doing it every other week might be a good way to go.

    Yeah its an interesting way to look at it, however the adaptations might be significantly different. For example with sprinting you build up fast twitch fibers and also some muscle hypertrophy which is significantly different than the tempo longer duration runs that build up mitochondrial density but smaller muscle size. The low rep lifting builds up neuromuscular adaptations and higher reps build muscle cell size. And after a certain point once the neuro adaptations are maxed out the only way to build more strength is muscle size. Anyway it all depends on the goal I guess, and it probably is better to alternate like you said to get the most bang for your buck for each lifting session.

    I've done a few complexes and to me they are very similar to HIIT in the crossfit sense. And I don't buy the fat shredding nonsense. It works great for a while but then you adapt and your back at square one. Plus there is a lot of form breakdown once your grip starts getting tired or your shoulders etc... I mostly ignore DJ's conditioning info for some reason because a lot of it is too crossfitesque although I liked his litinov article.

    I think that simplicty rules when it comes down to conditioning and choosing patterns that can be maintained at hard efforts and have very little risk of causing and injury are the best ones to be used. Things like hill sprints, or speed work, hard bike efforts, squats, carries, sled pushes, KB swings, inverted rows, pushups etc... what it really comes down to is effort. I think you could easily get the same workout doing a simple lifting plan and a hill sprints/push ups conditioning workout as you could with any complex.
     
  11. Bare Lee

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    Good points all around. Yeah, the analogy was loose, and the adaptations quite different, as you explained quite well. Also very good point about choosing conditioning exercises that are low-risk. Thanks for the feedback.

    For mixing rep counts or ME and DE in the same session, it's mostly so I don't have to think about things too much. It would be complicated to work out a Westside-like schedule. It will be nice when the workouts get more automatic, and I don't have to think as much as I do now while implementing the 1/3/5(/8) scheme. Then, through autoregulation or 'feel' push the singles once in a while when I'm really feeling it. Let's call it the 'flexibility within a scheme' approach. You have the scheme to maintain some discipline and constancy, but you can easily vary the reps/sets/or weights to accommodate fluctuations in energy, time, and motivation, e.g., cut out the singles or quintuples if you're short on time or energy, or increase the weight of the singles if your energy or motivation is high. But on most days, you just go by the chart and push yourself just enough to make a little progress.

    Do you do much tempo running, or do you stick mostly to hills/intervals and LSD?

    PS., I finished my abbreviated workout summary on page one. It's nice to have an overview like that. Good idea.
     
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  12. Bare Lee

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    Thinking about this a bit more, I might try something like this, with boldface indicating a heavy day, done once in the two-week cycle for each main lift:

    DL, Row, Press
    SQ, Bench, Pulldown
    DL, Row, Press

    SQ, Bench, Pulldown
    DL, Row, Press
    SQ, Bench, Pulldown

    For the Squat, Deadlift, and Bench, a heavy day would be drop sets starting 10-20 pounds heavier than my normal single, or close to my true 1RM. For example, for the deadlift, instead of
    3x1x335, 3x3x295, 2x5x255,
    I would do
    1x1x355, 1x1x345, 1x1x335, 1x3x305, 1x3x295, 1x3x285, 2x5x255

    For the Press, Pulldown, and Row, a heavy day would involve adding sets of singles about 20 pounds heavier than the triple weight. On the other days, I just do triples and quintuples.
     
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  13. Abide

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    I don't do much of any running lately other than some random hill sprints. Actually I don't think I have run specific tempo runs either before. Like I said before I suck at running so I don't think about it too much.
    For now I am going to stick with LSD till I can get a decent base built back up. I'll keep the speed workouts limited to the bike. I'm hoping eventually to build up to two runs a week a 20k and 30-40k and that will be it for running.

    I like this idea you could really burn through these workouts. I might give this a try in a few weeks. I might add in some weighted carries but thats probably it.
     
  14. Bare Lee

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    I dunno, when I first started participating on this site, I remember you being one of the guys regularly doing long runs, and now you have plans to do a 100-miler next summer, so it's hard to imagine you suck at running. Are you saying you're not very fast? With the lifting, you'll never have an endurance build, so to be able to run those distances is actually probably more of an accomplishment than some dude your height weighing 140, right?
    See?!!
    Yeah, Monday and Tuesday's workouts have been really great. I love the simplicity. It's taken me a while to have full faith that just doing really basic lifts is enough, but I think it is. I'm having some of the best workouts of my life right now. Instead of assistance stuff, just do more rep counts on the main lifts! It's all about targeting the prime movers. The secondary and stabilizer muscles will strengthen on their own as the prime movers strengthen. I think the theory is correct.

    I don't know if I'll be able to do heavy days for the lesser lifts--rows, pulldowns, and OH presses. I just don't know if they're conducive to heavy singles. I certainly didn't feel like doing a 200-pound pulldown yesterday; 150 at five reps felt most effective. But I will do super heavy singles once in a while on the big ones--bench, squat, and deadlift. At the moment, however, there's almost no point. The 1/3/5/ formula is working pretty well and after a month or so of experimentation, I think I have pretty good weight increments figureded out. By the time I get to the last set of fives, I'm ready to be done.

    I still have room for some assistance lifts, and intend to work them back in, including loaded carries, and, eventually, the plyo/mobility/stabilizer stuff, but for the next few weeks (months? years?) I might just focus on making the three-lift scheme automatic.
     
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  15. Abide

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    Barefooters
    1. Nederland -...

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    Hey how do you get your formatting so nice an pretty? Evertime I edit or cut and copy from another program it becomes a mess. Do you think I should move my post to the first page?

    I say I suck at running because its one of those things I like to keep at a very basic level. I have tried training plans and other stuff but it drains all the enjoyment of it. Plus I go through phases where I hate it then enjoy it, and then you see some people who just float on by you and you wonder why its so hard for you. I am pretty slow and for the amount of work I have put into it, the payoff was minimal, well other than a lot of pain when getting out of bed in the morning. So for now I am going to focus on only running twice a week and just taking the pace easy for a while. With the main goal to build my endurance but do it as pain free as possible and try to enjoy it as much as I can.
    And about doing a hundred there is only one hundred I have ever really been interested in running and I think with the vacation schedule next year I might be able to make it work. Plus I think I have plenty of time to train for it appropriately, for once!

    You know I too need to have a little faith that the big lifts will work because it does take some time, but the results always show up. To this day I still occasionally think to myself that I should be doing more reps or more work every workout and kind of force myself not to. It's true though as long as you hit the big lifts hard the little stuff really doesn't matter (that much). That's why I am kind of hoping the two day running thing will work out too, just get in two good runs a week and build it up over time.

    I do have to say though after I read that DJ article, I've been doing BW+ farmers carries and they have made my traps blow up. It's probably one of the quickest transformations I have ever seen when it comes to the weight room.
     
  16. Bare Lee

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    I don't know, I'm pretty OCD about formatting. It's part of my training in linguistics I guess--all those tree diagrams. I just copy the 'quote' brackets [...] and section off each part I want to comment on.

    I think it would be a good idea for your cumulative workouts to move to the first page too. It's nice to have a broad overview like you did but have it more accessible. If we keep this up, it will be hard to find pages after a while, so it'll be nice to always be able to consult with the first page. I've tried to eliminate most of the commentary and just stick to numbers on the first page's list of cumulative workouts.
    Yah, enjoyment is key. I really don't like running fatigued or waking up barely able to walk. I don't think I could ever follow a specific training plan, and with no specific goals except to get faster, I don't really need to, but I do think it's beneficial as well as enjoyable to mix up run paces/types a bit. My ideal schedule would be something like this:

    Sunday: rest
    Monday: easy 5k
    Tuesday: 5-10k tempo run
    Wednesday: easy 5k
    Thursday: 5-10k intervals/fartleks/hills
    Friday: easy 5k
    Saturday: 10-14 miles LSD

    It's an open question whether my body would be able to take that, but my sense is that it would, if I can build up to it slowly. With the distances you want to run, however, I think it makes sense to have lots of rest/recovery days. For me, I think I would most like to get in 5k most days. It's just a feeling I have. Time will tell. In any case, I think it's my last hope for losing my belly fat without having to resort to some kind of dietary restrictions. Walking takes too much time.
    I read somewhere, probably Rippetoe, that as long as you're progressing in the big lifts, there's really no point to doing assistance; they'll just slow down your progress. It's only once you begin to plateau that you need assistance. The theory about 'confusing the body with variety' is thought to be nonsense by at least some people I've read. I think RDL says the progress from mixing things up is illusionary--you just adapt to the new stimulus, but don't actually get stronger overall.

    For me, I think once I plateau, I may just work to maintain, reduce sets/reps, and do more plyo/mobility/agility/stabilizer stuff. I figure I can probably progress with my current plan up to about 405-455 on the deadlift, 365 squat, and 275 bench press. After that, I don't think I would really want to continue progressing so it would be pointless to do stuff like good mornings, or DB bench presses I think. I dunno.

    However, that said, I do think there are some assistance lifts that work the muscles in ways the basic lifts don't, but which are beneficial, for general fitness/mobility and probably overall strength too. Things like loaded carries, dips, pullovers, hyperextensions, Russian Twists, and maybe a few others, like face pulls, crossover flies, lawnmower rows, etc. So I will be working those back in. I guess when I can get the three main lifts and the 1/3/5 scheme down to about 40-45 minutes, it will be time to work in 1-2 assistance lifts each workout. Yesterday's session took a whole hour.

    Yeah, I've been meaning to work the loaded carries in. I think farmer's walks with dumbbells or a hex bar will work the traps better than the weighted vest. My traps have already been getting bigger though. It's probably the area where the added strength is most noticeable. I can hardly wait to hit the Y-Rows on Friday.
     
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  17. Sid

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    I've transitioned from the short HIIT workouts to longer runs and swims each morning. I no longer feel the need to do cardio in the afternoon. Alternating running and swimming seems to optimize recovery time for both activities.

    I think that the HIIT workouts were helpful in reducing the waistline and also improving my endurance. Cardio also seems to have an appetite supressing effect.

    I'm going to try to focus more on doing some strength training, perhaps a few exercises in the afternoon. So, we'll see how that goes. Still need to get buy those dumbbells, but I can make do using the weight vest with DB squats, until my upper body exercises max out my current DBs.
     
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  18. Bare Lee

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    When you say that the payoff has been minimal for the amount of time you put in, I'm not sure what the values are for either variable, but my experience last year was that when I kept most of my runs to six miles or less, I began to notice improvements in pace, but then once I made a push for distance, my pace stagnated or regressed. I kind of got in an aerobic rut. So, after reading that the Kenyans, or some of them at least, work on pace first, and distance second, I wonder if it might not be a good idea for both of us to work on getting the pace down for 5-10k runs, before adding in more distance. This idea has been in my head for a couple of years, but last year I got into finding out how far I could run, and this year, for various reasons, I haven't been able to run consistently for more than a few weeks at a time.
     
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  19. Abide

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    That is a good observation about pace vs distance. It is kind of why I am leaning on only running longer distances less frequently now. I have always mixed them in the past. I should point out that technically I did get faster and could run longer, so there were some results. The problem is the wear and tear on my body and trying to deal with minor and major injuries was a constant battle that I didn't want to have to fight. I know I could knock out a decent 5k time right now (sub 24 minutes) but I think that speed comes from biking more than anything. Also I have never had much success maintaining a steady but lower bodyweight on running and now realize that cardio has, if anything, a negative consequence on weight loss. This was surprising for me. So there were multiple variables that I was tracking, but the primary variables would be longevity and enjoyment, not necessarily speed and distance.

    Mostly I am questioning the logic behind running 5-6 times a week and trying to focus more on the long distance longevity piece on a less frequent basis. Its one of the few things I haven't tried before. The low heart rate training focuses on training at low intensities but its still does not compensate for the repetitive issue. My idea does compensate for the repetitive use issues and also should allow a full recovery from them between runs. I also think variation of cardio excercises can be very beneficial. I have been reading and following Rob Krar for the last couple of years and he does a lot of MTB and SkiMo stuff in addition to running. He's our age too. Kilian Jornet does this as well. Here is an interesting read http://www.runnersworld.com/trail-runner-profiles/the-contradiction-of-rob-krar?page=1
    However I also understand that I am 70 pounds heavier than them and built significantly different. I think I am going to focus on dropping down to 180lbs. (82k) by next summer and keep my deadlift gains, which might be the hardest task of all.

    The two days of running won't be exculsively slow. I might work in a tempo type of run on the midweek one or maybe a negative split run after a month of getting into the rythm. The long run on the weekend is going to be mostly slow and involve hills and experimenting with hydration and food. Hydration is something I think I need to focus on even more than I care to admit. Nutrition as well.
    I'll still be biking to work and will enjoy the occasional MTB ride while still lifting 3 days a week. And hopefully the result will be to run without injuries, enjoy it more and have consistency (less volume and frequency).
     
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  20. Abide

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    It's interesting you see the appetite supressing effect. I see the opposite. Initially there is a supressed feeling but within a few hours my appetite grows like crazy. In fact I think I just ate 1500 calories of peanut butter...
     

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