Still want to heel strike.

[NickW]

Now, if I remember correctly Lee, Daniel Lieberman used that term in his study, and acknowledged that it was a flat foot strike. People have then gone on to use the term and not explain what it means as Lieberman did, I'm assuming because they assume that people know what that term is referring to. Maybe technically it's a false or incorrect term, but in the context that he used it, explaining first that it was a flat foot strike, it works. It has become a common and accepted term, kind of like barefoot shoes seems to have become an accepted term despite many of us fighting it. I still refuse to use that term and call the shoes like vffs minshoes. I correct shoe store employees nearly every time I'm at a shoe store.

 

[Bare Lee]

Now, if I remember correctly Lee, Daniel Lieberman used that term in his study, and acknowledged that it was a flat foot strike. People have then gone on to use the term and not explain what it means as Lieberman did, I'm assuming because they assume that people know what that term is referring to. Maybe technically it's a false or incorrect term, but in the context that he used it, explaining first that it was a flat foot strike, it works. It has become a common and accepted term, kind of like barefoot shoes seems to have become an accepted term despite many of us fighting it. I still refuse to use that term and call the shoes like vffs minshoes. I correct shoe store employees nearly every time I'm at a shoe store.

Yah, mid-foot isn't nearly the semantic abomination that barefoot shoes is, but minimal shoe or minshoe and flat-foot strike are definitely more descriptively adequate. Only time will tell whether or not either one gains wider currency. Personally, I think zero-drop shoe works better than minimal shoe, because there's such a slippery slope between, say, the Moc3s at 2mm sole with a bit of fabric sewed on top, and some of the minimalist shoes with rock plates and some cushioning and heel cups, etc., and then the standard cushioned / stability running shoe. Where to draw the line? But since I don't know or really care too much about shoes of any sort, I'll leave that argument to others. Right now I'm wondering if the Bare Access shoes I bought and never use might be better for speed work once the temps get too cold in a few weeks for barefoot running down on the gravely track.

 

[NickW]

Yah, mid-foot isn't nearly the semantic abomination that barefoot shoes is, but minimal shoe or minshoe and flat-foot strike are definitely more descriptively adequate. Only time will tell whether or not either one gains wider currency. Personally, I think zero-drop shoe works better than minimal shoe, because there's such a slippery slope between, say, the Moc3s at 2mm sole with a bit of fabric sewed on top, and some of the minimalist shoes with rock plates and some cushioning and heel cups, etc., and then the standard cushioned / stability running shoe. Where to draw the line? But since I don't know or really care too much about shoes of any sort, I'll leave that argument to others. Right now I'm wondering if the Bare Access shoes I bought and never use might be better for speed work once the temps get too cold in a few weeks for barefoot running down on the gravely track.

You should see some of the shoes the big box stores consider minshoes... I think the only thing minimalistic about some of them is the weight, but they still have high heel-toe drop, 20+mm of cushioning, etc... I don't know if there is one good term for minshoes. There's the shoes like vffs, that are super minimal, then there's minshoes like the kinvaras that to us, are not even minshoes but are classified as minshoes by the big box stores. As far as your bare access, you must be one of the few who can fit your feet in those narrow shoes. I guess those might help you out with speed work during the winter, but they are pretty thick and stiff which may be difficult for you to adjust to since you are mostly barefoot every where.

 

[Bare Lee]

You should see some of the shoes the big box stores consider minshoes... I think the only thing minimalistic about some of them is the weight, but they still have high heel-toe drop, 20+mm of cushioning, etc... I don't know if there is one good term for minshoes. There's the shoes like vffs, that are super minimal, then there's minshoes like the kinvaras that to us, are not even minshoes but are classified as minshoes by the big box stores. As far as your bare access, you must be one of the few who can fit your feet in those narrow shoes. I guess those might help you out with speed work during the winter, but they are pretty thick and stiff which may be difficult for you to adjust to since you are mostly barefoot every where.

Yah, a real waste of money. But I was desperate, and still convinced that my TOFP was a stress reaction, as my sport medicine guy had diagnosed, so I thought a little cushioning might help. Now they just sit there. I also have the Go Bionics. So I'll see which one is better if the Moc3s don't work out. The Moc3s have been fine for cold winter running, but I've never tried them at faster paces.

But you're right, I have slim and attractive feet. Even feminine now that I have toe rings.

 

[jldeleon]

My whole issue here, is the use of the word "strike". If you are running correctly, you are not "striking" with anything. I like to think of it as more of a rolling action -so I don't even like the term "mid-foot strike" or "forefoot strike". That word should be eliminated from those terms. I have recently started pavement running again. I resisted it at first, but have been doing it to humor Brine Shrimp. What I have found is that my form sucks -after all the trail running I have done, where it is harder to pay attention to form. Usually pavement running aggravates my joints. So I have focused on visualizing that my feet are actually attached to a wheel that is moving. It keeps my movements even and keeps it more like a rolling movement, as a result. No joint pain when I do that. And I'm not "striking" in any manner. Visualization is your friend! That's what I was also talking about when I took David out on the trails a couple times, with regard to rolling your arms. Your feet will follow what your arms do. It's not like you are rolling your arms the whole time you run, but it helps engage the rolling action when you run -a good strategy for those who are unable to visualize very well- like my spousal unit.

 

[NickW]

My whole issue here, is the use of the word "strike". If you are running correctly, you are not "striking" with anything. I like to think of it as more of a rolling action -so I don't even like the term "mid-foot strike" or "forefoot strike". That word should be eliminated from those terms. I have recently started pavement running again. I resisted it at first, but have been doing it to humor Brine Shrimp. What I have found is that my form sucks -after all the trail running I have done, where it is harder to pay attention to form. Usually pavement running aggravates my joints. So I have focused on visualizing that my feet are actually attached to a wheel that is moving. It keeps my movements even and keeps it more like a rolling movement, as a result. No joint pain when I do that. And I'm not "striking" in any manner. Visualization is your friend! That's what I was also talking about when I took David out on the trails a couple times, with regard to rolling your arms. Your feet will follow what your arms do. It's not like you are rolling your arms the whole time you run, but it helps engage the rolling action when you run -a good strategy for those who are unable to visualize very well- like my spousal unit.

I still have no clue what you are talking about with the rolling thing, rolling arms thing.... Maybe I'm just overstressed and not thinking clearly as finals are this week and next for me for the term...

 

[Bare Lee]

My whole issue here, is the use of the word "strike". If you are running correctly, you are not "striking" with anything. I like to think of it as more of a rolling action -so I don't even like the term "mid-foot strike" or "forefoot strike". That word should be eliminated from those terms. I have recently started pavement running again. I resisted it at first, but have been doing it to humor Brine Shrimp. What I have found is that my form sucks -after all the trail running I have done, where it is harder to pay attention to form. Usually pavement running aggravates my joints. So I have focused on visualizing that my feet are actually attached to a wheel that is moving. It keeps my movements even and keeps it more like a rolling movement, as a result. No joint pain when I do that. And I'm not "striking" in any manner. Visualization is your friend! That's what I was also talking about when I took David out on the trails a couple times, with regard to rolling your arms. Your feet will follow what your arms do. It's not like you are rolling your arms the whole time you run, but it helps engage the rolling action when you run -a good strategy for those who are unable to visualize very well- like my spousal unit.

I like to visualize myself as a Giant Medieval Troll stepping on landmines left over from cold war proxy battles in the Third World, each explosion propelling me forward into the twenty-first century, post-socialist world of financial crisis and planetary ruin. But that's just me. I doubt I could get my spouse to go along with that either.

Anyway, the truth is I know it's gravity doing all the work. That's why fat people are so fast. No need to worry about form--just keep it big.

 

[jldeleon]

I like to visualize myself as a Giant Medieval Troll stepping on landmines left over from cold war proxy battles in the Third World, each explosion propelling me forward into the twenty-first century, post-socialist world of financial crisis and planetary ruin. quote]

Of course you do...

 

[DNEchris]

My whole issue here, is the use of the word "strike"...................

Channeling Ken Bob!

Good advice I believe.

 

[Sid]

I like to visualize myself as a Giant Medieval Troll...

Sometimes when I find the miles going by too slowly, I'll start feeling like Pacman, endlessly navigating the maze of my neighborhood, looking for more distance to gobble up. In fact, I'll think in my head, "Waka, waka, waka, waka." Somehow, this peaceful mantra redirects my mind from focusing on the numbers, so that I can just be in a meditative running state.

Edit: To some, running may sound boring, but it's addictive in its own way. Certainly, it's more interesting than Pacman or any video game!

 

[barefootandagile]

Been running 21yrs now. Can't recall ever considering myself a purposeful heel striker. Early in my running I started using a mixture of shoes. Racing shoes, trainers and spikes. I think the combination of mixed footwear and varying speeds of running played a big role in my development of being a midfoot runner. Having transitioned over the last 7yrs to min shoes exclusively and now zero drop for over a year, I now rarely ever strike with weight on my heel as I run. I do think my consistency has been aided heavily by perception of how I run and drills that I have used to train my muscle firing patterns.

I would term my running currently as a "forefoot weighted landing".

 

[Barefoot Gentile]

Heel strike is just a term, it's the same as a foot fall. Way to much over analyzing. I don't even heel strike actually, just get a lot of comments from people who see a picture of me and it seems I heel strike. Bad post, my bad.

 

[barefootandagile]

Heel strike is just a term, it's the same as a foot fall. Way to much over analyzing. I don't even heel strike actually, just get a lot of comments from people who see a picture of me and it seems I heel strike. Bad post, my bad.

Asked the fellow runner behind me today to describe what he say my feet doing as we ran ay 10:30mm pace. He said it didn't look like my heel even touched. My perception agrees with him.

 

[barefootandagile]

I'm to old for this sh*t anymore. I'm sure it was magnificent to experience that, but in reality sounds creepy, I'm sure he was looking at your buttocks as well.

It wasn't as creepy as it was written. He is an athlete that I train with who is a very beginning runner. So I have been giving him some tips.

 

[Bare Lee]

of course you do

Seriously, I like that wheel image. I'll try to conjure it up on today's run/running.

 

[barefootandagile]

Seriously, I like that wheel image. I'll try to conjure it up on today's run/running.

I like to think of the my leg action as very compact and precise like that of a wheel.

 

[Bare Lee]

I like to think of the my leg action as very compact and precise like that of a wheel.

Mine is more like a rickety covered wagon wheel transporting nuns and prostitutes to a gold rush town, than a compact car wheel engineered with precision on a suburban commute to office work. Eventually I'd like it to be like a runaway semi-truck's wheel barreling down a mountain pass into an unsuspecting flock of sheep crossing the road on their seasonal migration to fresh grazing land. But again, that's just me.

 

[jldeleon]

Mine is more like a rickety covered wagon wheel transporting nuns and prostitutes to a gold rush town, than a compact car wheel engineered with precision on a suburban commute to office work. Eventually I'd like it to be like a runaway semi-truck's wheel barreling down a mountain pass into an unsuspecting flock of sheep crossing the road on their seasonal migration to fresh grazing land. But again, that's just me.

You are F-ing HILARIOUS!!! I think I need to add this to my Facebook quotes. LOLOLOL!!!

 

[Zetti]

If I'm not mistaken this is another Gentile thread hijacked by Lee!!!!! hahaahahahahahahaha......oh man
I've been away for too long!!

on a more relevant note (not that migrating sheep are not relevant...) I just had my first run in min. shoes and WOW its much harder to keep good form. I ended up with sore heels after my run....go figure.

 

[scedastic]

Mine is more like a rickety covered wagon wheel transporting nuns and prostitutes to a gold rush town, than a compact car wheel engineered with precision on a suburban commute to office work. Eventually I'd like it to be like a runaway semi-truck's wheel barreling down a mountain pass into an unsuspecting flock of sheep crossing the road on their seasonal migration to fresh grazing land. But again, that's just me.

Dude, that's so weird. It's not just you. That's just how I envision it. Went to the "Running Form on Acid Workshop" at my local running store. You must've read about it somewhere or attended one of the very popular seminars?