Retrolisthesis and... Barefoot? :S

[Zetti]

It would also be a good idea to get some of the vetrans to chime in with some valueable tips here as they already have above. After all, thats why we have this forum!!
Take everything I say with a grain of salt as I'm not an experienced BF runner. Just passionate

 

[Sven]

Dont think the reason of my injuries is the lack of technique, but also it is. I think that the reason is barefoot running, I mean, if I would have worn barefoot shoes, I wouldn't have those wounds. Isn't it?

 

[Zetti]

Dont think the reason of my injuries is the lack of technique, but also it is. I think that the reason is barefoot running, I mean, if I would have worn barefoot shoes, I wouldn't have those wounds. Isn't it?

Well here is one logic...if you had worn BF shoes....you would not have wounds on your feet, Correct. However you would probably keep running without making necessary changes because the shoes were taking the beating. The advantage of BR running is that now you soles can tell your body.....CHANGE YOUR FORM PLEASE!!!!!! If you put min. shoes on, you will be risking running with poor form thus leading to injury and probably aggravate your back problems.
While minimalist running shoes protect the skin on your feet....running BF protects the integrity of your body and corrects your form (not a magic bullet but a great alternative).
This is actually exactly why you have gotten the suggestions that you have to go BF. Once your form is looking better, you can start using min shoes as a tool if you so decide. Reality is however you will likely not want to put anything on once you’ve gotten your form set =)

 

[Sven]

But i wont run BF hurting and not having a good time... Suffering... The min shoes could help me to the transition isnt it? 4 mm enough not to provoke wounds (?)

 

[Longboard]

That there retrolisthesis is the only spinal thing..........

And sorry Sven, whatever you do don't take my grammar as being acceptable English.

 

[dutchie53]

Most of us who have started on this journey have had our feet look like that at the start as well. It is all part of the learning curve. How did the back feel though?

 

[NickW]

Sven, with your feet looking like that after ten minutes of running, it DOES mean that something is off with your Barefoot Running Form. Your feet are telling you that. Part of barefoot running is learning how to listen to the feedback and make adjustments before your feet get like that. I would recommend get a book on barefoot running, whether it is Jasons book, barefoot Ken Bobs, or whomever. This is exactly why I think some people give up on barefoot running after the first or second time trying. They don't yet understand how to listen to their bodies yet and it hurts.

There are several steps to successful barefoot running and it does take a little bit to learn. First, give up any notion of what distance, time, pace you normally can run. Those ideas are ill advised when starting to run barefoot. You are learning a whole new form of running that is gentler and easier on your body in the long run. This takes time to learn. Second, do not run more than your feet can handle. If your feet are getting tender, STOP. Walk back. It doesn't matter what distance or pace or amount of time. It takes time to learn to run barefoot and the more you damage your feet like that without learning to listen to them the longer it will take you to learn. Try to land with a mid or forefoot strike underneath your body instead of with your leg stretched out in front of you. Bend your knees while running. Ken Bob says bend the knees more than you think you need. I also forgot to mention, try running in place when starting while standing straight up. After a few seconds lean ever so slightly forward. You should be moving forward now. These are the basics that you will need. From there it's what works for you and what your body tells you. Good luck and don't give up! It's really not as painful as your first experience has proven to be, it's just learning why that happened.

 

[Sven]

Most of us who have started on this journey have had our feet look like that at the start as well. It is all part of the learning curve. How did the back feel though?

My back is fine, apparently this style dont hurt my back. Surely it will improve it.

But I am a bit demoralized... I dont know how to start doing it. I love run ! And want to run!

 

[NickW]

I was also wondering if there is any chance of you running with your friend that already runs barefoot? Maybe this friend can help give you pointers in person while running as this may help show you what you may be doing wrong and what you may be doing right.

 

[Barefoot TJ]

Great advice, Nick and Zetti, except the part about that other place. Hee. Not bad for newbies themselves, Sven. Listen to them, exactly what they have said, and you won't go wrong.

The problem is you expect your shoes to do all the work for you when your feet should be doing all the work. We want things to come to us easily, we want them overnight. (Stay back, Gent. hee.) When our shoes do all the work, we find ourselves running sloppy and get injured, serious injuries. We have a perceived misconception that the shoes protect us somehow, when in actuality, they hide what is harming us or could potentially harm us. Practice patience with barefoot running.

Shoe form running and barefoot form running are two totally different things. Watch some videos of the two differences (YouTube) to see for yourself. With shoes, people tend to grind in and push off; with barefoot running, we lift our feet. Those blisters are telling you your form is off, barefoot and shod; they are telling you that you shouldn't be pushing off, which can lead to stress fractures in shoes when masked, and exposed more quickly when barefoot. Barefoot running is an acquired form of running, and when you get it, you will love it and respect it.

Those blisters show progress, believe it or not. I always tell newcomers to look at the bottoms of their feet after a barefoot run. They will tell you not only where you've been, but how you got there.

Your blisters will heal. When they do, give it another try, and this time, lift.

 

[Zetti]

Great advice, Nick and Zetti, except the part about that other place.

My bad TJ......the dark side can be very tempting sometimes....lol

 

[Barefoot TJ]

That "other place" is my ugly red-headed step child, not that there's anything wrong with red-heads, or steps, or children.

 

[Sven]

I have bought those shoes
Recommended by some runners in spain. 9€. Called Newfeel many.
Created for walking, but some barefoot runners use them. Zero drop 4 mm sole.

 

[peacekaren]

Sven, I'll add my agreement to what the others have said. I'm sure the shoes are tempting but you're better off starting without shoes. Build up slowly over time (in short distances) until you can run comfortably without any pain or blisters. It requires a lot of patience but it's worth it.

As to the more important matter in this thread...

As far as what not? Bell's Oberon, w/o the orange slice.

Mmm! It is that time of year, isn't it?! Tonight's beer selection for me is Smithwicks but you're making me wish I had some Oberon in the fridge. And I just found out they're going to sell it in mini-kegs this year! Count me in for that (also w/o the orange slice).

Peace,
Karen

 

[Sven]

I think it is better to alternate those things, barefoot running when the whether and the ground allow me to, and running with barefoot shoes when I wont be able to. I prefer barefoot running, because of all the things you said, but the transition is too difficult, and those shoes could help me.

The posibility of alternating barefoot and shoes was given to me by a barefoot runner who work in a barefoot shoes shop. Isnt it a good idea?

 

[Rusinque]

I think it is better to alternate those things, barefoot running when the whether and the ground allow me to, and running with barefoot shoes when I wont be able to. I prefer barefoot running, because of all the things you said, but the transition is too difficult, and those shoes could help me.
The posibility of alternating barefoot and shoes was given to me by a barefoot runner who work in a barefoot shoes shop. Isnt it a good idea?

I think you meant weather(clima). As long as its not too hot or too cold, barefoot running is perfect for any weather(0-35C)
The harder the surface, the faster you will learn to run barefoot. Harder surface = better technique and less impact. Listen to your feet and adjust.
"Its too difficult". Yes, the transition is annoying because you run very little, but it will be worth it later on. Just give it time for your feet to get stronger.
If you want to alternate, run barefoot first, then put your shoes on and continue running. It seems to work better that way.

 

[Barefoot TJ]

We have found through our collective experience here that those who choose to go back and forth take a lot longer to transition and risk injury more so. Sure, we recommend reasonable minshoes during harsh weather, extreme temps, difficult terrain, but only when they are truly needed.

 

[NickW]

We have found through our collective experience here that those who choose to go back and forth take a lot longer to transition and risk injury more so. Sure, we recommend reasonable minshoes during harsh weather, extreme temps, difficult terrain, but only when they are truly needed.

TJ is perfectly right with this. The more you flip flop the slower you will make the transition and the more you risk getting a serious injury. Minimalist shoes don't let you know what your doing wrong until you've hurt yourself. They also let you run faster and farther than your body is ready for. You have probably been in shoes most of your life. This means that your muscles have atrophied to a degree, and quite possibly the bone density is lesser than it will be after a year or two of barefoot running. When you run farther than your bones are ready for with this new form you risk serious injury (stress fracture). Some have been able to transition by flip flopping between barefoot and minimalist shoes, but it is very common for people who try this method to end up with an injury. I wish you luck and hope you are one of the few who can make the transition this way if you're set on using minimalist shoes. We do tell you to transition by going truly barefoot rather than flip flopping because we do not want to see you get injured. Good luck Sven.

 

[Sven]

I appreciate all the advices u give me, Why am I here in this forum if not? (is it well written?)
But as u said, i have Been wearing shoes all my life, and my feet are not prepared to run or walk. My wounds are almost cured, but surely the next time I run barefoot i will have wounds again, or not, who knows?
I will run one or two times a week totally barefoot, and the other with minshoes.

I live in a city where its too hot, and it will increase. I burn my feet, and What i want is running, and i will not stay At home without running because the ground burn, i prefer run with minshoes and whenever it is possible run barefooted, What is the aim i have, in spite of using minshoes.

I hope Ive expressed well :S haha

 

[NickW]

I appreciate all the advices u give me, Why am I here in this forum if not? (is it well written?)
But as u said, i have Been wearing shoes all my life, and my feet are not prepared to run or walk. My wounds are almost cured, but surely the next time I run barefoot i will have wounds again, or not, who knows?
I will run one or two times a week totally barefoot, and the other with minshoes.

I live in a city where its too hot, and it will increase. I burn my feet, and What i want is running, and i will not stay At home without running because the ground burn, i prefer run with minshoes and whenever it is possible run barefooted, What is the aim i have, in spite of using minshoes.

I hope Ive expressed well :S haha

We all understand the hot and cold temps and having to wear footwear for those. If you are going to do runs both barefoot and in your minshoes, please don't run much farther in your minshoes than you can barefoot. You will be risking getting an injury because it is a slow transition, not just for your leg muscles but your bones also. Good luck Sven!