Now here's a funny twist: Kipchoge's shoes spark backlash

Discussion in 'Barefoot & Minimalist Running' started by Barefoot TJ, Oct 17, 2019.

  1. Barefoot TJ

    Barefoot TJ Administrator
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    CheatersShoes.jpg
    The IAAF has banned shoes before. The organization’s shoe rules are as follows: “Athletes may compete barefoot or with footwear on one or both feet. The purpose of shoes for competition is to give protection and stability to the feet and a firm grip on the ground. Such shoes, however, must not be constructed so as to give athletes any unfair assistance or advantage.”


    Kipchoge's shoes spark backlash
    Canadian Running Magazine (blog)
    Ross Tucker and Steve Magness are two running experts who have ... The organization's shoe rules are as follows: “Athletes may compete barefoot or ...

    And...

    How Did Eliud Kipchoge Break the Marathon Record So Soon?
    The New York Times
    The shoes have enormous, spongy, springy soles. (Remember “barefoot running”? That era is over). If this performance was like walking on the moon, ...
     
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  2. Janne

    Janne Barefooters

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    I am torn about this. No doubt hi is the fastest and hi has shown how good hi is. I'd like to bet his time would be pretty much the same if he were to run barefoot; no shoe sponsor money though, but there are evidently others.

    The shoes however are just one aspect of the downsides of this experiment. If it were an experiment, why not control it even more and do it in a track? The most important missing aspect for me is that there was no one pushing his buttons. It was more the best time for the marathon distance not for a marathon race.
     
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  3. Barefoot TJ

    Barefoot TJ Administrator
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  4. Barefoot TJ

    Barefoot TJ Administrator
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    Now, we'll always wonder if he could have done it without the shoes. What do you all think?
     
  5. Neil_D

    Neil_D Chapter Presidents
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    I don't think there will be a flurry of people breaking the 2 hour mark any time soon. When Bannister broke the 4 minute mile he ran in thin leather shoes on a cinder track. There was no doubt it was all about his ability rather than the technology. These days the runners are on special tracks with specially designed shoes that is why it is still incredible to watch Zola Budd setting records while running without any technology behind her.
    It was mainly a publicity stunt, not that I am criticizing Kipchoge, he was just testing an experimental shoe that should probably be banned.

    Neil
     
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  6. Barefoot TJ

    Barefoot TJ Administrator
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    Love this!
     
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  7. Barefoot TJ

    Barefoot TJ Administrator
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  8. BareFootBC

    BareFootBC Barefooters
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    “Pebax also gives 30 percent more energy return. Along with Pebax, Nike shoes have also inserted a carbon fiber plate in the midsole. The plate successfully increases the energy return. Though the Pebax is already doing the same function, the fiber plate is like the cherry on the top. It also helps in improving foot functioning while running for long miles.”

    I can’t help but wonder what continual/long term use of this technology and the thickness of the sole mentioned does to a career runners feet...will the ‘energy return’ encourage muscles to function more or less? Will using this springiness wearing the shoe decrease springiness out of the shoe? Is there an arch in the shoe cradling the feet that will effect their strength and natural springiness?

    Living simply and non competitively is freedom.
     
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  9. Barefoot TJ

    Barefoot TJ Administrator
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    Good questions, Heath.

    Not talking about speed, but how is it that the Tarahumara can run 100-300 miles without stopping and recover quickly without the aide of this type of technology...or any kind of technology?
     
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  10. BareFootBC

    BareFootBC Barefooters
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    Beer
     
  11. Barefoot TJ

    Barefoot TJ Administrator
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    :hilarious:
     
  12. Janne

    Janne Barefooters

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    I wonder about if even if the sole returns 30% more, how much that contributes to the whole running effect. And if it gives too much, how is that impacting other parts of the body. It may be a total zero sum by loosing power from calves for example.

    It could also be that elite runners train in flats and only use the show off shoes for the masses; so no permanent damage for those smart runners. At the end of the day, they become shoe sales representatives, or ambassadors, and the goods need to be sold.
     
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  13. flammee

    flammee Barefooters

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    Is there any scientific proof behind this theory? Probably the world's best marathoner running the distance under 2h with rabbits don't count as scientific. Pebax can give 30% energy return with "mechanical hammer", but does it do the same when running? And compared to being shoeless and having achilles tendon and other human foot structures doing the same energy return, what's the difference?
     
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  14. Gordon

    Gordon Barefooters

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    Efficiency. Carbon-fiber springs return nearly all stored energy and tendons are very limited. I want to say 30%, but that's based on my really crappy memory. Tendons also lose their stored energy if it isn't reclaimed very quickly and a carbon-fiber spring can store it indefinitely.
     
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  15. Tristan

    Tristan Barefooters
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    I have no doubt that at this level of performance that specialized shoes may offer slight gains. There is quite a difference in what is best for you or I to run healthy and what a world class runner wants to break a word record. However in reality the added effect from his specialized shoes I am sure is but a tiny fraction. Every single aspect of his run that could be controlled was controlled, so the small gain compared to his other races are a combination of many things that were optimized (like the laser guided course, pacers, etc) the shoes are just a small part of that. Remember at this level, athletes often go to extreme measures to just gain seconds. Look at what Lance Armstrong did to himself just to get a tiny bit better. It's crazy what some of these top athletes do and not necessarily healthy.
     
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  16. BarefootPeter

    BarefootPeter Barefooters

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    I'm of the opinion that athletes should compete in the nude, ancient-Greece-style: if athletics is about comparing purely human performances, let human athletes be pure humans.

    Conversely, if technology and biological improvements (aka doping) are involved, then let it all rip: cyclists could legally use any recumbent bicycles they want, runners could use any silly shoes they want, swimmers could use streamlined speedos they want, and all of them could stick any needle they want in their arms, etc. It won't be a comparison of purely human performances - unless you consider technology derived from human cleverness a natural part of what human beings are - but it'll be okay because it'll be allowed by the rules.

    Controversies arise when governing bodies pretend to organize "pure" sporting event with "some" technology allowed in. Because I'm sorry, but even regular shoes give poor runners an edge, and could conceivably be considered technological doping.
     
  17. Barefoot TJ

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    Well said, Peter.
     
  18. Barefoot TJ

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    Of course, we barefooters would like to believe that barefoot is the advantage, but it too would be too difficult to know for sure when considering all the variables.
     

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