Much like sniffing milk you know has gone sour...

pilotrunner

Barefooters
Feb 18, 2011
353
186
43
... I decided this morning to take a run in VFFs.

Now, I have not ran with anything on my feet in 11 months and I now remember why. Much like that instant before you pour milk that you know has gone sour down the sink, you just have to sniff it one last time to make sure.

Yep. Running in VFFs still suck.

I arise to find that it's a crap day outside. It's 48 degrees, mist, the pavement is damp and I have taken the last two days off due to a mysteriously sore grand met. I need to run so this is the opportune time to break out the VFFs and take that sniff of the milk, so to speak.

My instant feedback is that I have no feedback. None. Zero. I find myself gazing around at the neighborhood and not concentrating on the road. I have to make a conscious effort to maintain proper form as I feel nothing from the street.

I feel strain on my calf muscles. The reason? I'm pushing off with my toes a bit instead of lifting my feet. Again, I have to make a conscious effort to correct this issue. And I begin to think; I do believe this is why we see so many stress fractures in those that wear minimalist shoes. Yes, I know we've all discussed this before, but I believe it needs to be written yet again.

My forefoot/midfoot plant has now become slightly midfoot/heel. Again, with no ramifications due to lack of feel, my form suffers and I have to make yet another conscious correction.

This is taking too much mental effort. I'm just a pilot so I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed anyway (far too much intelligence to be an Air Force pilot, and only slightly more than a Marine...), but running in VFFs is taking way too much thought. I have, however, found a few Pros to offset some Cons.

My feet are much cleaner, although they don't smell that great which is interesting. Since the BF transition, not that I had smelly feet to begin with, I have noticed that my foot odor is all but gone. After 50 minutes in the VFFs, they smell like hot rubber and fajitas.

My met didn't smart at all due to the extreme padding. Yes, I said extreme. The millimeters of rubber between my soles and the road removed all feeling, but padded my little sore area. The last time I had ran in VFFs was when I had ran in extreme cold and my feet were numb. That time, I abraded my pads and needed some protection for a week or so. I was happy to be rid of them then.

I'm happy to be rid if them now. Again, I'm not a trail runner and I can certainly see their purpose in that arena but until I begin that phase of my distance running, I'll just pour the milk down the drain and leave the VFFs in the closet.
 
Ugh, dude. Stories like this

Ugh, dude. Stories like this make me fear for my running future. My injury and metatarsal issues are making barefoot questionable for my future. Saddest thing is, I will require *some* cushioning to offload my lowered 2nd met, further reducing feedback.

Nice analogy, by the way. Makes me think about checking the lunchmeat you're pretty sure is way past done, just to be sure (I don't drink dairy, so...).
 
i gave away my vff because

i gave away my vff because they were tight and making my feet go numb.



Lomad, shoes are the reason your 2nd met hangs lower. shoes have deformed your's, and most of our's, first met. that's the reason for all the 2nd met stress fractures. the first met doesn't do it's job so the 2nd takes on more load than it was designed for. you need to build strength and actively engage your first met, not give up and go back to what caused the problem in the first place.

this is the reason that you see people standing, walking, and running with duck feet. meaning toes pointed out. i'm working a lot on my left first met and it's not easy. i've been walking pigeon toed my whole life so this sucks.
 
Lomad wrote: My injury and

Lomad said:
My injury and metatarsal issues are making barefoot questionable for my future. Saddest thing is, I will require *some* cushioning to offload my lowered 2nd met, further reducing feedback.

Lomad, I think your "fix" is counter-intuative.

You're obviously having pain. STOP! Rest until you have no pain whatsoever, then start anew purely BF. Seek alternate cardio workouts such as biking or swimming. Then, when you're up to it, start back to running very slowly and then begin the mileage build... SLOWLY.

You'll get there.

Cheers.
 
Thanks guys. I have stopped

Thanks guys. I have stopped (been off running for about a month) and have been working on the 1st met engagement. I'm just spitballing frustration more than anything. My goal is to return to bfr, but it's hard to see that path right now as I can't even walk from the couch to the fridge without pain barefoot. My 2nd met issue is related to my Morton's Toe, not shoes, btw.

Having said that, I understand that barefoot is better for most on this site (or we wouldn't be here) and ran 99.85% of all runs over an 8 month period last year barefoot as I "transitioned" (I was a cold turkey bfr, no step-down transition here) and gradually increased mileage. However, I never had a single foot issue when shod. Sure, I had knee aches and such, but my feet were never an issue. I have been doing a lot of reading on bf v. minimal and do believe that for some people bf is not the ideal state. It is highly individualized to the person. If there is a minimal shoe that allows for my foot to maintain its natural state (zero drop, minimal yet firm cushioning(if any), foot-shaped last - I'm looking at you Altra Samson...) yet provides a level of protection that allows me to run comfortably, in as little pain as possible, and, most importantly, maintain good form then that may be my best option. Part (a big part) of the equation is being comfortable with the circumstance in which I run; in order to run relaxed, I can't be constantly worried about whether or not I'm doing more harm than good. It is entirely possible that (again for SOME people) barefoot running is a traeoff from one category of injury for another. In my case, knee and lower back issues for foot injury issues. If I can have the best of both worlds in a zero-drop foot-shaped shoe, then I am all for it.

Knowing full well that it means I will have to be hypervigilant about form until it becomes "automatic."



Flame-resistant suit donned.
 
Your first metty problem

Your first metty problem could be due to both having MT and a weaker first metatarsal, just like Mike said. It doesn't have to be an either or thing. Make a stronger first metty, and maybe you can overcome your MT problems. BTW, have you thought anymore about that toe orthotic I told you about for MT? Keep engaging those toes in those exercises I told you about to help strengthen them. And don't forget, shod runners deal with MT problems all the time.

Barefoot running is best for "most" people, but it's not the best answer for "all" people. If you are finding comfort in your decision, and happy to do so, then by all means, run in a way that works for you.
 
Lomad, you have more

Lomad, you have more experience than me, but for what it's worth, I've found that the single best thing I can do to maintain form while shod (in Vivo NEOs) is keep the crown of my skull (like the continuation of your spine if it continued through the top of your head) pointing straight up. I find it really helps me maintain form. If you rock your head back, you lean back.

I like to run barefoot, but it's cold and wet in Maryland almost always this time of year.
 
I like my VFF Bikilas.  They

I like my VFF Bikilas. They suit me just fine for when I can't run BF. I much prefer BF, but it just doesn't work sometimes. I'm halfway looking for a 2nd pair to have for when my originals give up the ghost. At the rate they appear to be wearing out, that will be sometime out in the late 20teens.
 
I'm doing those exercises,

I'm doing those exercises, TJ; it's too soon to tell, of course, but i am hopeful. It could certainly be a multiple factor sort of thing and I'm certainly not writing off barefoot running. I'm just keeping my options open. I'm just thinking out loud (or on screen in this case
regular_smile.gif
) for the sake of others learning from my journey and experiences.



GBurg, that's a great tip for posture/form! I use the visualization of pulling a string attached to the top of my head upward to align. I think I got it in Michael Sandler's book, but yours is actually easier to visualize for me. I'll try it when I get to run again.

IF (big IF) I do go to a shod place for running, I will do it in the most minimal option that works for me, as I believe that best supports natural form. Just from walking around a few days in my [censored] foot coffins I immediately said "efffff that" to my doc's recommendation in that regard and put my met cushion in my minimal shoes and called it a day.
 
I finally figured out "how"

I finally figured out "how" to run in them correctly while still keeping my barefoot form. I can totally relate to your frustrations though. We have snow now, so it's footwear time. My first run in VFF's after months and months of barefoot running is always a bummer, but like anything the more I do it the easier it gets and the saddness wears off.

I don't have form issues in VFF's now. I pretty much emulated exactly how I would run barefoot and have zero issues now, the only thing that is different is of course zero ground feel.
 
I can't wear vff's.  I tried

I can't wear vff's. I tried again just a month or so ago and much like you found I was not able to wear them still. They still give me toe pain and tofp.
 
I've been going the exact

I've been going the exact opposite of you. Like Adam, I've been trying to figure out how to run well in shoes, so I am not going to run barefoot again for a while.

Honestly running in shoes is more convienient and it allows me to do more than running barefoot. It seems like the more I go back and forth it just causes issues.
 
Abide wrote:I've been going

Abide said:
I've been going the exact opposite of you. Like Adam, I've been trying to figure out how to run well in shoes, so I am not going to run barefoot again for a while.

Honestly running in shoes is more convienient and it allows me to do more than running barefoot. It seems like the more I go back and forth it just causes issues.

Just curious, Abide; what shoes are you running in? i'm looking for ones to consider for my (not so) triumphant return to running next month.
 
I switch between a pair of

I switch between a pair of kso's, bikilas and the Neo. I think I am going to pick up a pair of Adam's one of these days with a coupon code I found and retire my kso's.

The bikila's are by far the most comfortable and are probably my favorite of the three.
 
nice, thanks! I had Adams.

nice, thanks! I had Adams. The anchor point for the forefoot strap was right on top of my big toe's knuckle and it rubbed me raw, even with socks. It was a shame b/c they were otherwise ideal for me. i'm hoping the Samson in early March does better for me.
 
I have the Adams and I have

I have the Adams and I have to leave that strap completely loose otherwise it rubs me raw too on my pinky toes. I really like them compared to the Neo's despite this strap problem. The Neo's just seem to be too "squishy" to me, or like something is blocking the feedback from the ground more so than the Adams. I still think huaraches are better than any minimalist closed toe shoe that I've found so far.
 
Yeah the Neo's soles are

Yeah the Neo's soles are pretty hard, I use them more on the trails that roads.

DO you guys think the Adams would be good for lifting, is the sole flat and thin?
 
poor pilotrunner! Cut him

poor pilotrunner! Cut him some slack, gentlemen! He started a post about hating shoes, now it turned into a shoe discussion. Poor thing is probably fuming, and since he's a pilot, that's not good.
 
Abide wrote:Yeah the Neo's

Abide said:
Yeah the Neo's soles are pretty hard, I use them more on the trails that roads.

DO you guys think the Adams would be good for lifting, is the sole flat and thin?



they would. i'd recommend trying them on first for sure, if at all possible.



/end shoetalk:)
 

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