Goal pace help needed

jschwab

Barefooters
Jun 16, 2010
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UPDATE: My initial instinct was correct to run about 11:20. I left my watch at gear check (why have I not thought of this before?) and ran sort of by feel. They had clocks at every mile marker and we started at gun time plus 30:00 exactly so it was a little too easy to keep track of splits. In the end it served me well, though, since it helped me pick up the pace to go sub 2:30. I had a slow crowded first mile (12:40 or so) and I panicked when I saw the 5:30 marathon pace group. I was worried about picking it up and sustaining it, but once I locked in a pace I had no problem even though my longest long run had only been 10 miles. I had no problems with my injury although I had to take steps to keep loose through my pelvis, since my pelvic muscles got pretty stiff around mile 7-8. Speeding up for a half mile helped and I settled back into my sustainable pace by mile 8. By mile 11 -- because of the slow start -- I knew I needed to gas it the last two miles to go sub 2:30 (I knew I would miss 2:28). I was able to drop the pace to 11:00 or so for mile 12 and then somewhere in the 10's (I read it from the clock splits as actual 10:00 pace, but that's my 5K pace, so that seems wrong). I only lost a second per mile after my 10K split (11:23 turned into 11:24) - I though that was pretty impressive since the hills come after mile 7, including the hill where I got injured last year. The weather helped by staying consistently about 45 degrees for the whole race. I got great crowd support for the last mile when I really pushed the pace, lots of people encouraging me as I passed a ton of people. After mile one, I had revised my goal down to 2:35 expecting positive splits with the hills and fatigue, so I was thrilled.

I missed another goal of beating a friend's full marathon time (we both wanted 2:28). He was 29 seconds than me for the full, good enough for 11th place.

Redemption. Gratitude. Healed gut. Oh, and Protons. I love my Protons.

Time: 2:29:36 (last year 2:51)

Pace: 11:24



I based my pace goals for an upcoming half marathon (this Sunday) on a recent 4 mile race time (10:20 pace). I had a chest cold and fever for that race, though, and I was sucking alot of wind.

Last Monday, while running a very, very easy recovery 5K at conversational pace, I ran my fastest 5K ever (9:39 pace) which kind of made me want to reevaluate my goals.

My training for this half has been low mileage due to rehabbing from an injury (with lots of crosstraining). I've incorporated lots of quality longer runs midweek (7-9 miles with repeats or tempos). I've had mostly 10 mile long runs most weeks since August - maybe a dozen ten milers altogether in the lead up.

My compromise with not going beyond 10 miles was to do back to back to back ten milers a couple weekends ago (10 on Saturday and 10 again on Sunday which went fine). I have reasons for not going over 10, but I won't go into it here.

McMillan says 11:09 pace based on my 4 mile time and 10:36 pace based on my 5K time. Going by 11:09, I was thinking of shooting for 11:20 pace, but yesterday's long, easy run was about that pace, or at most 11:30 including potty stops and a chat on the trail with my neighbor and with conversing with my running partner the whole time. Who knows what pace I was actually running if you strip all that away.

10:36 seems ludicrous since the fastest 10 mile race I've ever run was 10:59 pace. But 11:20 suddenly seems too slow.

What do you think? First miles will be slow just because of crowds. And it's hilly. What should I go for - what would you go for? I run hills in training,but I don't have any love for downhills.

I know I am faster - the proof is in my times - but it's hard to wrap my head around even going for McMillan's 11:09 pace. What would you do? I was badly injured at the only other two halfs I've done so the experience from those will not guide me well.

Where should I be looking to lock in a pace - since I have not run 13 in training this year, I am not sure how my endurance over the last 5K will be.
 
this is easier than you're

this is easier than you're making it. the first couple of miles will be slow liek you said so the pace will be dictated for you and don't worry about it. once you get into open space base it on how you feel. based on all the times you mentioned in your post i dont see why you cant shoot for somewhere between 10:45-11:00 pace once you get free of the crowd. you may even be able to drop to the 10:36 pace considering you will have a slow start to ease into the race. if you are slowed for the first two miles then you are really only running an eleven mile race at that point with a two mile warm up or three mile warm up and a ten mile race.

have two plans...your ideal which might be around the 10:30 pace and your back up plan which might be the 11:30 you run in training. you never know what's going to happen the day of the race so having two plans is a good idea. what is your absolute happy goal time and your acceptable "it wasnt my best day but i'm good with it" time. see what happens and give it what you've got.
 
J, I think if you feel good

J, I think if you feel good on race day, you should run with the 11:00 pace group, assuming you have pacers. I know some races don't have them. I'm not very good at using them, but a lot of runners swear by them. You will run faster than you think you can, especially with a pace runner to help you along. Even though you haven't run 13, you have put in a lot of miles training for this. Running a couple more doesn't matter on race day.
Are you running bf? If you were doing it bf, I might have to take back some of that, but with any type of foot covering you will be fine. I say that because of the 15K race I was in a couple of weeks ago. I was fine until the 8 mile mark, but then my feet got really tender. I shudder when I think how they would have felt if I would have had to run 4 more.
But you have more base miles than I had, so even then you would probably be OK. Good luck with your run!
 
J, I always start slower than

J, I always start slower than my "goal" pace to see how I'm going to feel during the race. For example, my last half marathon was at a 8:20 min/mile average pace. But I started at more of a 8:30, and since I felt so good, after a while I moved it up to a 8:00. I've also had races where I have to drop it back.

Especially for your first half marathon, I don't think you should be worried about a particular goal pace. You should be concerned with choosing something that feels good, but at the same time is a little challenging (it is a race after all). As long as you start slow and don't overdo it, I think that plan will carry you across the finish with a time you can be happy with.
 
Yup.  Like those guys said. 

Yup. Like those guys said. Also, you will have the benefit of adrenalin to shave a few seconds off all your miles. If you go into the last 2 or 3 miles feeling frisky, play "fishing" where you look to the next runner ahead of you and reel them in. Don't get so wired up that you forget that it's FUN!
 
Yes Joseph!  Exactly!  You

Yes Joseph! Exactly! You can obsess about your pace, and your PR, and your splits, and all that junk on your next half marathon if you really want.
 
I second Saypay, if you start

I second Saypay, if you start with people who are slower than you then you can pass more people ultimately. Better to go in a solw wave and speed up than go with a fast wave and get overtaken by fast runners if anything goes wrong. But I bet nothing will. Trust me, you'll do great! I've met a lot of runners who only train to seven or eight miles for a half and you've prepped really well.
 
I am NOT running it barefoot.

I am NOT running it barefoot. Most likely, if it's cold enough I will be in Protons. If warmish, I'll wear real beat up water shoes (I think to need to duct tape them - they are that bad).

This is actually my third half marathon - I did two last Fall. At this particular one (Philly Half), I ripped my ab muscle off the bone at mile 10 which accounts for some of the nervous freakout.

I hobbled across the finish line in 2:51 and could not walk more than a mile for a month. I ran a whole bunch of 12-15 milers last year leading up to those races, including one 17 miler so the distance is not new at all - just have not run it yet this year. A good time would be my personal validation that:

A) not getting surgery was the right choice

B) concentrating on core rehab with low mileage is OK

C) I am smart, in good shape and have not wasted a good chunk of my paycheck on intense rehab only to run as bad as I did when I was a hobbled cripple (I did not actually rip one into my gut until the race, but I was running the second half of last year really crippled by spasming pain in my abdominals - some kinds of intense muscle weakness)



This is what I am coming up with:

I think 12mm pace is my outside "acceptable"

11:20 is my midline goal

10:59 pace is my best case scenario
 
I like your "stairstep"

I like your "stairstep" goals.

It sounds like in training you've gone faster without even trying to. So what if you just run the race without looking at your watch until then end, and base it all on how you feel? Easier said than done...but it sounds like you're at a good level of fitness and would probably have a good result.
 
I'm ahead of you C.Beth. I

I'm ahead of you C.Beth. I don't like things on my wrists - thinking about not wearing my watch at all. I think you are right that it would work out better. It's not true I have not tried to run faster - I've done shizzloads of speedwork and drills, just never timed anything properly. Cause I'm not lazy about running, but I am all kinds of lazy about logging :) But I still didn't expect to have the gains I've had. It's really only because I started running with other people that I noticed (the fact that I have speed enough to run wirh other people is kind of a miracle in itself LOL)
 
jschwab wrote:It's really

jschwab said:
It's really only because I started running with other people that I noticed (the fact that I have speed enough to run wirh other people is kind of a miracle in itself LOL)

Ha ha ha--I totally get this!!!
 

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