Egg Shells

Stoplookinatme

Barefooters
May 20, 2012
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#1
Please help me to be clear on this. If I was running as fast as I want to and running with no blisters or other ill effects I wouldn’t care but since I’m not and can’t seem to get there, I do. There is one part of the gate cycle that I understand least, as far as what I am supposed to do, and if you helped me on it I think it would make a big difference for me. I continue to mess with my form almost every time I run and my pace seems to be greatly affected by whatever I do and varies from 8:30 per mile to 7:30 per mile at what appears to be the same level of effort. I also get these huge blisters about half the size of a deck of cards near the outside edge of my feet a little ways in back of the ball. I’ve been running barefoot for just over a year now.
What is meant by imagining you are running on egg shells? After you touch down, when do you try and lift your feet up?
1) As soon as you feel your feet touch the ground you immediately try to unload your body weight and pull them towards your center. It seems like when I do this I get very little forward propulsion.
2) You let the gate cycle finish and pull up a short time after you touch down, after that bounce like feeling, trying to maintain a rapid cadence. This is what it looks like Dr. Mark does. His leg is almost straight when his foot comes off of the ground.
3) You do what feels natural. When I do this it seems like my foot stays down for a longer time and my cadence seems to drop.
Thanks,
Jim
 
#2
I'm not sure about "gate cycles" but I think that for someone with no confidence in your form you are running too fast.

Maybe if you
1.)slowed down to the point where you're able to run very comfortably while still being able to focus on your form and
2.) are able to get in some faily good miles and a good number of runs in without the blisters or other form problem indicators,
maybe then you would be able to get the feel of it and stabilize.

Truly, friend, big blisters shouldn't be a regular occurance. Your feedback system's not coming through for you here.

Maybe the real BF running guru's could pitch in and give you some more constructive advice?
 
#3
First, it would be helpful to confirm that you are running barefoot-barefoot and not barefoot-shod. Then I would try
1.) slowing the pace, as JT suggests, maybe to something like 10mm pace.
2.) stop consciously manipulating your form/landing--'just run'--and see if sensory feedback doesn't fix the problem for you.
3.) if (1) and (2) fail, then seek out a coach or trainer, because after a year, you definitely should not be getting huge blisters.
 
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#6
the fun of trying to figure out form issues seems to be never ending, at least for me. two years bare and i'm always playing with mine. especially since i'm running mostly slow, i have a harder time keeping good form. when i speed up i feel better.

hard to say why you have blisters there. video works best. without it i can only guess you may be reaching or slightly overstriding. if not that then you may be pushing off.
either way you have some work cut out for you to figure it out.

as far as your leg cycle. i think steve magness put it best yet with a long technical description. perhaps BareLee can find it and link it here. i think he found it before and i'm not that effecient at finding things. basically allow your hip to pull your foot of the ground. it is much easier when you're gong fast. sorry that i can't give a better explination.
 
#8
Jim, I wonder what kind of surface you are running on, asphalt, cement, trails, track. How many miles do you run? Hopefully not on hot asphalt. Can you tell if there is friction when your foot is on the ground or lifting off? Do you twist your foot when you lift off? I think you should be able to run blister free at any pace, as long as you are comfortable. Dr Marks videos are great. Even after a year you could be doing too much too soon. Try to stop the blisters before they form. When your foot starts to feel hot or tingley give it a rest for a few days. You might find someone to do a video on a treadmill and give you a gait analysis. Some of the shoe stores do this, but I don't know how they feel about barefoot. I am not an expert, but I would be curious as to what the cause is.


 
#9
Stoplookinatme said:
Please help me to be clear on this. If I was running as fast as I want to and running with no blisters or other ill effects I wouldn’t care but since I’m not and can’t seem to get there, I do. There is one part of the gate cycle that I understand least, as far as what I am supposed to do, and if you helped me on it I think it would make a big difference for me. I continue to mess with my form almost every time I run and my pace seems to be greatly affected by whatever I do and varies from 8:30 per mile to 7:30 per mile at what appears to be the same level of effort. I also get these huge blisters about half the size of a deck of cards near the outside edge of my feet a little ways in back of the ball. I’ve been running barefoot for just over a year now.
What is meant by imagining you are running on egg shells? After you touch down, when do you try and lift your feet up?
1) As soon as you feel your feet touch the ground you immediately try to unload your body weight and pull them towards your center. It seems like when I do this I get very little forward propulsion.
2) You let the gate cycle finish and pull up a short time after you touch down, after that bounce like feeling, trying to maintain a rapid cadence. This is what it looks like Dr. Mark does. His leg is almost straight when his foot comes off of the ground.
3) You do what feels natural. When I do this it seems like my foot stays down for a longer time and my cadence seems to drop.
Thanks,
Jim
Click to expand...

Running "egg shells" would be referring to landing very light and moving quickly through landing. I personally lift my feet as soon
as I recognize that gravity as returned me to the surface. The tricky part..and the element you seem to be mixing up on or not interpreting correctly is how to internally cooperate physically with the external forces at play as you walk or run. You are obviously not alone in this regard. It is an area of skill of running that both bare and shod runners struggle with. My recommendation would be for you to do some research on the how to run. I personally use and teach Pose Method. In Pose, what we do is continue a focus of leading with our alignment/belly button area. As soon as we feel we have reached the ground and thus are in POSE we immediately release our posture/POSE and simultaneously lift our foot/recovery our leg so our body will be properly aligned at the next landing. We don't worry about where the propulsion is coming from. It will come from internal and external forces. What we want is to make the transition consistent and smooth regardless of the speed of the run.

I will follow this thread with interest and give more input as time permits. Keep asking questions many have found the solution to the problem you seem to be struggling with.
 
#11
Barefootn, to answer your question, I usually run a little over 3 miles and I alternate between dirt and asphalt. I use dirt to recover from blisters I get on asphalt.
I don't know how much good a video would do because I change my form every time I run. I read and watch everything that I can find. I try it on dirt and it feels great and I go fast. Then I try the same thing on asphalt and it feels great. After I run I look at my feet and my skin is pealing off always in the same place.
 
#12
Bare Lee I just looked at that Science of Running article that you posted a link to. It was excellent. The point I got from it was that there are only about 5 active parts of running that you should mess with and let all the others happen passively. That may explain why I've been messed up for so long because I've been knocking all the automatic stuff out of kilter.

I tried what the article said about moving your arms faster to increase cadence. It was amazing how well it worked without trying.

I'm going to try letting all the automatic stuff just happen tomorrow and see what happens. I am doing a dry run on the 5k course for a race next Saturday. It will be my first 5k road race since changing to barefoot. I ran a trail race before but that was barefoot runners only.

I do appreciate all the advice.

Jim
 
#13
No expert here, but a few things that seem to have really worked for me to dial in form:

1) Instead of pulling yourself forward, achieve desired forward momentum by leaning forward so that it kind of feels like your legs and feet have to catch up with you.
2) Focus on an overall running movement that minimizes bouncing up and down as much as humanly possible, so it feels like you are gliding forward, so that it feels like your body is spending the least amount of energy needed to move forward.
3) Maintain a good natural posture, finding a "sweet spot" in which you can feel your glutes being used as the primary power generators.

Hope might help :)

BR
 
#15
I ran 3 miles a couple of hours ago. I put everything on auto pilot except for my foot plant location, pushing down and back with my glutes, and using my arms to regulate cadence like the article that Bare Lee linked to stated. I have no idea when and how my feet came off the ground or how my feet got back to be ready to be planted again. I gave it no more thought than my breathing.

It felt so awesome. I felt like I had more control than ever on increasing my cadence with my arms and regulating power by how hard I swung them. I felt so many times in the past like I solved my form problems, only to realize later that I didn't, so I am trying not to get too excited, but this is what I found.

It was on asphalt and my feet had no signs of any blisters or pre blisters and my feet didn't have those white patches that I see after I run. Usually around 2 miles I start to feel skin discomfort.

My time improved from my last few runs by about 30 sec per mile without trying and my enjoyment level greatly increased.

The only problem is that the outside ridge of my left foot in the area of that bone that sticks out half way back is quite sore. I'm not sure if it hurts because of a rock I stepped on of if it's from changing my form.

I only hope that next run feels as good. Thanks for your great suggestions and I am open to additional comments if you have any.

Jim
 
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#16
Stoplookinatme said:
I ran 3 miles a couple of hours ago. I put everything on auto pilot except for my foot plant location, pushing down and back with my glutes, and using my arms to regulate cadence like the article that Bare Lee linked to stated. I have no idea when and how my feet came off the ground or how my feet got back to be ready to be planted again. I gave it no more thought than my breathing.

It felt so awesome. I felt like I had more control than ever on increasing my cadence with my arms and regulating power by how hard I swung them. I felt so many times in the past like I solved my form problems, only to realize later that I didn't, so I am trying not to get too excited, but this is what I found.

It was on asphalt and my feet had no signs of any blisters or pre blisters and my feet didn't have those white patches that I see after I run. Usually around 2 miles I start to feel skin discomfort.

My time improved from my last few runs by about 30 sec per mile without trying and my enjoyment level greatly increased.

The only problem is that the outside ridge of my left foot in the area of that bone that sticks out half way back is quite sore. I'm not sure if it hurts because of a rock I stepped on of if it's from changing my form.

I only hope that next run feels as good. Thanks for your great suggestions and I am open to additional comments if you have any.

Jim
Click to expand...
That's great news Jim. It's always a bit of a mystery when we find something that works better than something else. I hope this solution sticks.

As for the soreness, if I understand your description correctly, it sounds like it might be tofp, which could either be a little stress reaction to the greater pace, or from your tendons and tight lower leg muscles, also due to the greater effort. If the former, reduce or rest. If the latter, try stretching and massaging the front and back lower leg muscles.
 
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