Carbo loading?

[Sid]

CORRECTION: The title of this post should really be Nutrient Timing. Traditional carbo loading, with and without depletion, doesn't work for many people. I was hoping to get some feedback on the newer method developed at the University of Western Australia, the second link below. Thanks!

I've mentioned it before a few times. I seem to have the best workouts and PRs after carbo loading. I don't usually carbo load intentionally. I typically don't eat as much during the weekdays, as I do on the weekends when dining out with family. My best workouts are on Mondays or Tuesdays.

I understand that typically carbo loading is done only for longer periods of exercise, though I seem to benefit even in shorter workouts. (Perhaps, my body isn't as efficient as a well-trained athlete and benefits from the additional boost.)

I've been thinking about carbo loading intentionally. However, the traditional method involves days of depletion and carbo loading. This isn't going to work, if I want a few good workouts a week. I looked and came across these articles.

Nutrition and recovery of muscle energy stores after exercise

Rapid carbohydrate loading after a short bout of near maximal-intensity exercise

Carbo Loading by Coach Nelson

They seem to suggest that ending a workout with a 3 minute sprint will prime the muscles to store glycogen. I'm assuming that one needs to vigorously exercise the muscle groups involved, such that running won't help muscles involved in swimming, etc.

I think that I'm going to give it a try over the next few weeks. Any thoughts?

 

[spoonerweb]

My carbo loading consists of eating mostly salads and high fiber foods on Thursday to clean out the system and then more carbs than usual on Friday. Seems to work the best for me on Saturday long runs and also helps my body not to have the runs.

 

[skedaddle]

I think a lot of this sort of thing depends on the intensity of your workout, for the average Joe eating a good healthy diet with plenty of rest is sufficient to fuel workouts and see performance improvements.
If you are stepping up to race paces, long distances and competition then diet becomes more of a factor.
Personally I would still rather my body burnt fat for fuel, even if the process does make your farts smell like a baboons armpit, but everyone's different and it's always good to experiment to find out what works for you.

 

[OdiarAmor]

Personally I would still rather my body burnt fat for fuel, even if the process does make your farts smell like a baboons armpit.

THAT explains a lot although, based on that, I should be MUCH thinner.

 

[otoole4info]

even if the process does make your farts smell like a baboons armpit.

Lmao, sometimes I think others wished they smelled like a baboons armpit, they'd consider it a more decent smell..... I was thinking a dead deceased and rotting animal carcass better describes my afterburner odor. Lol

 

[theshortwhiteguy]

Personally I would still rather my body burnt fat for fuel, even if the process does make your farts smell like a baboons armpit, but everyone's different and it's always good to experiment to find out what works for you.

LOL!

Your quote sounds not too dissimilar to this from another forum:

"I started eating dates last week, because apparently they're good for you! The backlash was totally unexpected! My ass began saying the foulest most unspeakable things, and even spoke in tongues! It couldn't be contained. It was almost like my ass loudly proclaimed that it needed to sing! No more dates for me, unless somebody close to me deserves it!

Has your ass ever performed an opera after an unexpected response to a new food?"

 

[NickW]

Has your ass ever performed an opera after an unexpected response to a new food?"

Every time I eat highly processed food. When I eat whole foods (except beans) my stomach is fine, processed though you better watch out. You would think my wife would learn and would quit trying to get me to eat the stuff. Instead she just likes to complain about the consequences of me eating these foods.

 

[Zetti]

I can't see the phrase "carb loading" without thinking about beer...

 

[Sid]

I think a lot of this sort of thing depends on the intensity of your workout, for the average Joe eating a good healthy diet with plenty of rest is sufficient to fuel workouts and see performance improvements.

I plateaued my last few months of running, so I'm going to give it a shot. If it allows me to up my intensity , then all the better.

Personally I would still rather my body burnt fat for fuel...

I don't have a ton of fat left. I'm 5'11" and in the 160s. I've weighed less, but in the 150s, I lose lean mass and bodyfat in approximately 1:1 proportion. So, I figure it's time that I try something new. You see athletes chowing down on tons of starches, and I'm beginning to understand why.

Here's another article.
International Society of Sports Nutrition position stand: Nutrient timing

However, I've also read that this assumes that one is meeting their macro requirements. If one doesn't eat enough total carbs, proteins, fats averaged over the day, then timing doesn't matter.

 

[skedaddle]

I plateaued my last few months of running, so I'm going to give it a shot. If it allows me to up my intensity , then all the better.

I don't have a ton of fat left. I'm 5'11" and in the 160s. I've weighed less, but in the 150s, I lose lean mass and bodyfat in approximately 1:1 proportion. So, I figure it's time that I try something new. You see athletes chowing down on tons of starches, and I'm beginning to understand why.

Here's another article.
International Society of Sports Nutrition position stand: Nutrient timing

However, I've also read that this assumes that one is meeting their macro requirements. If one doesn't eat enough total carbs, proteins, fats averaged over the day, then timing doesn't matter.

Having running plateaus is perfectly normal, you can't train at maximum intensity all of the time, you'd just burn out. Patience and proper rest is the key to faster times, that's the only thing that will give stable, lasting results.
The word Carb loading by it's very nature implies 'forcing the issue' probably a technique that was devised for pro athletes that hadn't peeked for a race in time and not something meant as a training aid.
I choose to burn fat for fuel because it's part of my body, my body makes it and knows full well how to use it, the only problem is it wants to hang on to it as a throwback from our hunter gatherer ancestry when food was not always available and stores of fat were needed for survival, so it will groan and moan for the first few miles.
Again I'm not expert on this stuff but this method has worked for me, and seemed the most natural solution to fueling my runs and farts
My stats are very similar to yours, 5'10" and 10st 12lbs, but even on 20mile runs most of my weight loss is fluids and any fat loss can easily be replaced gradually over the following week.

 

[Sid]

Having running plateaus is perfectly normal, you can't train at maximum intensity all of the time, you'd just burn out. Patience and proper rest is the key to faster times, that's the only thing that will give stable, lasting results.

I should elaborate. I don't race. I don't care about pace or times. I'm not going to be running 20 miles. I shouldn't have said plateaued, as I meant bored. I just want the energy that I get with glycogen loaded muscles, so I can fully enjoy my workouts.

The word Carb loading by it's very nature implies 'forcing the issue' probably a technique that was devised for pro athletes that hadn't peeked for a race in time and not something meant as a training aid.

No, that's not what carb loading is. It's merely eating carbs when the body is most likely to shunt it into the muscles rather than the liver. Anyone can do it. See the links above. The phenomenon is well-studied. I ate a bagel after working out today, and I had another one 2 hours later, to replace the glycogen that my muscles burned up. Nothing was forced. I feel pretty good.

Anyway, I'm finding that it's more important for me to eat properly after exercising, rather than before. One has to store the energy before using it. You store yours as fat. I'm trying to store mine as glycogen. I'm learning to replace the glycogen that my muscles use.

With all of the hype that carbs are bad, I forgot that carbs are only bad for sedentary people. Carbs are great for those who are active.
Nutrition and Athletic Performance

Actually, to be honest, over the past 1-2 years, I did pretty much exactly what you're doing. Store as fat, burn off, store as fat, burn off. I got a bit tired of it, so I'm trying this now.

 

[skedaddle]

I should elaborate. I don't race. I don't care about pace or times. I'm not going to be running 20 miles. I shouldn't have said plateaued, as I meant bored. I just want the energy that I get with glycogen loaded muscles, so I can fully enjoy my workouts.

No, that's not what carb loading is. It's merely eating carbs when the body is most likely to shunt it into the muscles rather than the liver. Anyone can do it. See the links above. The phenomenon is well-studied. I ate a bagel after working out today, and I had another one 2 hours later, to replace the glycogen that my muscles burned up. Nothing was forced. I feel pretty good.

Anyway, I'm finding that it's more important for me to eat properly after exercising, rather than before. One has to store the energy before using it. You store yours as fat. I'm trying to store mine as glycogen. I'm learning to replace the glycogen that my muscles use.

With all of the hype that carbs are bad, I forgot that carbs are only bad for sedentary people. Carbs are great for those who are active.
Nutrition and Athletic Performance

Actually, to be honest, over the past 1-2 years, I did pretty much exactly what you're doing. Store as fat, burn off, store as fat, burn off. I got a bit tired of it, so I'm trying this now.

Sure all these things are scientifically tested but the motivation for adopting them needs to be sound, a clear purpose, a goal need to be in place else you'll still be bored only with different eating habbits.
To me starving myself of carbs and then gorging on them doesn't seem like a balanced way of eating, but then a again I'm getting old and new things scare me

 

[Sid]

To me starving myself of carbs and then gorging on them doesn't seem like a balanced way of eating, but then a again I'm getting old and new things scare me

These recommendations don't sound so radical to me. That's a good amount of carbohydrates meant to be spread throughout the day. No one is getting starved. Perhaps it's the low carb hype that you're thinking of?

*Carbohydrate recommendations for athletes range from 6 to 10 g·kgbody weight. Carbohydrates maintain blood glucose levels during exercise and replace muscle glycogen. The amount required depends on the athlete's total daily energy expenditure, type of sport, sex, and environmental conditions.​

* Protein recommendations for endurance and strength-trained athletes range from 1.2 to 1.7 g·kg body weight·d-. These recommended protein intakes can generally be met through diet alone, without the use of protein or amino acid supplements. Energy intake sufficient to maintain body weight is necessary for optimal protein use and performance.​

* Fat intake should range from 20% to 35% of total energy intake. ​

 

[skedaddle]

Looks like you have it all under control Sid, I'll bale now before I have to wear the cone of shame again.

 

[Sid]

Looks like you have it all under control Sid, I'll bale now before I have to wear the cone of shame again.

Oh dear. Certainly, no need for that. I just wanted to see if anyone else was actively managing their carbohydrate intake (doesn't seem like it) and to get a bit of discussion going (which we did). So, thanks!

I think that by being more attentive to when I have carbs, it might work out well for me. I'd like to have 3 solid workouts a week. I feel pretty decent today, though a bit sore from yesterday's workout. Hopefully, I'll be ready for another go tomorrow.

I noticed that after those two bagels, that I got quite thirsty and downed about 3L of water out of the gallon that I usually bring to work. I typically look and feel a bit deflated after a workout, but last night I looked perhaps a bit "pumped". So hopefully the nutrients and water are going to the muscles, as they're mostly water anyway.

I do wonder if it's possible to load up the muscles with carbs and have the body burn fat the rest of the time. I've read about carb cycling, a much more controversial and difficult matter, but that's for another time and place.

 

[shaunmac]

Man, you all think too much. Just eat a big helping of spaghetti the night before.

 

[Sid]

Man, you all think too much. Just eat a big helping of spaghetti the night before.

No, no, that's backwards. The spaghetti and meatballs come after the workout, to refill the gas tank after the fuel has been used up. Always good to keep the tank topped off. Of course, one shouldn't keep on pumping after the tank is full.

 

[BFwillie_g]

More fallout from the Runner's World era. Don't carbo-load unless you're trying to gain weight.

 

[Sid]

More fallout from the Runner's World era. Don't carbo-load unless you're trying to gain weight.

Perhaps, the topic should be nutrient timing, since people are confused with the term carb loading. I can see why, as the traditional method was hideous.

The diet should be weight neutral, which should be fairly clear from the articles. Some of this is recent research, so no it's not RW era hype.

 

[Bare Lee]

Oh dear. Certainly, no need for that. I just wanted to see if anyone else was actively managing their carbohydrate intake (doesn't seem like it) and to get a bit of discussion going (which we did). So, thanks!

But what does this have to do with core stability?

Butt seriously, just to add to the discussion, I eat four meals a day, partly because I wake up pretty early, but also because I like to spread it out a bit. My first meal is mostly nuts with some dried fruit and a tall glass of OJ, so a lot of protein and fat but also some simple carbo. Then mid-morning yoghurt with fresh berries/fruit and banana, so a bit more protein but mostly carb. Then raw veggies and fruit--more carbo--around noon. Then comes dinner, after I work out, which is animal flesh, cooked veggies or salad and, depending on how much energy I've consumed, a starchy carbo like potatoes or rice or something.

Basically, and to the point of the discussion, I only regulate the last item. Now that my mileage is up and my st workouts are going well again, I've been eating more starchy carbo at dinner, which seems to comply with the concepts you've put forward. When I exercise less or not at all, that's what I reduce or eliminate. I can always tell how I'm doing by how I wake up. If I wake really hungry but energetic, I know I got it right the previous day. If I wake up without much of an appetite, I probably ate too much. If I wake up hungry but sluggish, I probably didn't eat enough.

Also, and also in line with what you said, I like to drink a ton of water throughout the day and especially after a workout, even if I haven't sweated too much.

Finally, in keeping with the tmi tone these discussions inevitably take, I only fart when I eat chocolate or drink too many espressos.