Check out this documentary. Always a good discussion.
Watch Bill Bowerman on PBS. See more from Oregon Experience.
Watch Bill Bowerman on PBS. See more from Oregon Experience.
Bill Bowerman
- Thread starter Barefoot TJ
- Start date
Neil_D
Chapter Presidents
Very interesting guy, would
Very interesting guy, would have been fascinating to be coached by someone like that. I didn't see any heel striking by any of the runners except maybe in one clip close to the end. He even had the right idea about the shoes back then. I'm not sure what went wrong after that. Surely he had a great insight into how a human runs. How did we end up with shoes weighing 10oz or more and with heels over an inch high.
Neil
Very interesting guy, would have been fascinating to be coached by someone like that. I didn't see any heel striking by any of the runners except maybe in one clip close to the end. He even had the right idea about the shoes back then. I'm not sure what went wrong after that. Surely he had a great insight into how a human runs. How did we end up with shoes weighing 10oz or more and with heels over an inch high.
Neil
Bill Bowerman? Oh you mean
Bill Bowerman? Oh you mean the guy that invented shin splints! Yeah I've heard of him before. If that video were in print form, it'd be on glossy paper, btw.
Bill Bowerman? Oh you mean the guy that invented shin splints! Yeah I've heard of him before. If that video were in print form, it'd be on glossy paper, btw.
Bowerman knew what he was
Bowerman knew what he was doing with runners. The problems started when he met with Lydiard and brought jogging over here to America. Before that people just ran and runners ran fast. They were also sort of a fringe group that people thought were either crazy or elite athletes. Only the strong ran. Bowerman gave us jogging in America and the slower movement put people on their heels. Anyone of you that goes out and tries to "run" really slow will either be on your heels or you'll feel as though you are running weird. All bouncy and awkward. That's why one of the big secrest to barefoot running has been the shorter stride and higher cadence. When barefoot we don't push off as much as a shod runner so we don't cover the same ground. To avoid heel striking you shorten the stride and take more steps which allows the mid-foot landing without the excessive bounce. The problem is the lack of propulsion for a shod jogging person. We don't go as far with each step when we jog so the foot doesn't have a chance to come back as far and land underneath the body...thus heel striking. When people started running on their heels they complained about the shoes and their feet/shins hurting. Enter the shoes companies with solutions. That and Nike had this really cool air pocket in their basketball shoes for shock absorption so it should work in the running shoes too right?
The rest is what we all fight against today in built up shoes and bad running form. I've said all along the science to help alleviate shock in heel striking was and is very sound. The problem is that they've been trying to alleviate problems without seeing what the problem is and that's the heel striking. But we all already knew that
Bowerman knew what he was doing with runners. The problems started when he met with Lydiard and brought jogging over here to America. Before that people just ran and runners ran fast. They were also sort of a fringe group that people thought were either crazy or elite athletes. Only the strong ran. Bowerman gave us jogging in America and the slower movement put people on their heels. Anyone of you that goes out and tries to "run" really slow will either be on your heels or you'll feel as though you are running weird. All bouncy and awkward. That's why one of the big secrest to barefoot running has been the shorter stride and higher cadence. When barefoot we don't push off as much as a shod runner so we don't cover the same ground. To avoid heel striking you shorten the stride and take more steps which allows the mid-foot landing without the excessive bounce. The problem is the lack of propulsion for a shod jogging person. We don't go as far with each step when we jog so the foot doesn't have a chance to come back as far and land underneath the body...thus heel striking. When people started running on their heels they complained about the shoes and their feet/shins hurting. Enter the shoes companies with solutions. That and Nike had this really cool air pocket in their basketball shoes for shock absorption so it should work in the running shoes too right?
The rest is what we all fight against today in built up shoes and bad running form. I've said all along the science to help alleviate shock in heel striking was and is very sound. The problem is that they've been trying to alleviate problems without seeing what the problem is and that's the heel striking. But we all already knew that
NickW
Guest
Jimmy Hart wrote: The rest
I like that. Very well put Jimmy!
Jimmy Hart said:The rest is what we all fight against today in built up shoes and bad running form. I've said all along the science to help alleviate shock in heel striking was and is very sound. The problem is that they've been trying to alleviate problems without seeing what the problem is and that's the heel striking. But we all already knew that
I like that. Very well put Jimmy!
Except that Lydiard's
Except that Lydiard's 'joggers' weren't heel striking and they weren't having any of the problems that came with the Bowerman revolution.
Except that Lydiard's 'joggers' weren't heel striking and they weren't having any of the problems that came with the Bowerman revolution.
Well said, Jimmy. Also, Pre
Well said, Jimmy. Also, Pre was a heel striker: http://www.dailymile.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Jeff-Galloway-Steve-Prefontaine-Jack-Bacheler.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thehappyrower/5179234326/in/set-72157621682973975
Well said, Jimmy. Also, Pre was a heel striker: http://www.dailymile.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Jeff-Galloway-Steve-Prefontaine-Jack-Bacheler.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thehappyrower/5179234326/in/set-72157621682973975
Bowerman gets a bad rap for
Bowerman gets a bad rap for introducing the heel strike. I've talked to a handful of people that coached or were somehow connected to him... he was all about what we'd call "natural form." Jimmy's assessment was spot-on. Customer demand and designers trying to fix the resulting problem is what got us to where we are today.
BB- the pics can be a little misleading depending on where they are taken in the gait cycle. Assuming those are representative of his gait, it looks like the initial contact was on the heel, but ended up under his center of gravity... sort of like BF Rick's gait. As Jay Dicharry's reseach is showing, landing on the heel under the COG doesn't produce any more force than a midfoot landing. Odds are Pre's pace in those pics was rather fast, his foot would be under his center of gravity pretty quickly.
Bowerman gets a bad rap for introducing the heel strike. I've talked to a handful of people that coached or were somehow connected to him... he was all about what we'd call "natural form." Jimmy's assessment was spot-on. Customer demand and designers trying to fix the resulting problem is what got us to where we are today.
BB- the pics can be a little misleading depending on where they are taken in the gait cycle. Assuming those are representative of his gait, it looks like the initial contact was on the heel, but ended up under his center of gravity... sort of like BF Rick's gait. As Jay Dicharry's reseach is showing, landing on the heel under the COG doesn't produce any more force than a midfoot landing. Odds are Pre's pace in those pics was rather fast, his foot would be under his center of gravity pretty quickly.
Correct me if I'm wrong (not
Correct me if I'm wrong (not a huge running fan), but Pre didn't really win all that much, right? Wasn't he routinely beaten on the international stage?
Correct me if I'm wrong (not a huge running fan), but Pre didn't really win all that much, right? Wasn't he routinely beaten on the international stage?
Can't say Pre was routinely
Can't say Pre was routinely beaten on the international stage because back then they rarely competed on it outside of world championships and olympics. Sadly back then the US didn't care much about the track program and in order to be an olympian you had to be amateur so you were broke, could barely live, and everyone outside of the sprinters were routinely beaten on the international stage.
Pre never really won anything international but could have probably done some winning if given the type of environment track athletes have today. The biggest issue for him was lack of competition over here and dying way too young to really have a chance to develop.
To add to the Bowerman talk he was all for natural running and you are right that Lydiard didn't have people slamming down on their heels Willie. I think Bowerman did have a hand in starting a bit of the "take longer strides to cover more ground" junk that started coming out when the jogging boom hit but he was well out of the game by then and only a silent background image of the Nike revolution that had started. The joggers, like everyone else who exercises, were getting in better shape and when the idea of the everyday man (women hadn't hit the scene just yet) entering road races became popular people who were just recreational wanted to know how to improve at these races. Enter the idea of the elongated stride. It was greatly a misundertanding of the long strides elite runners had from the speed they ran at so the mimmicking began and it was mimmicked incorrectly.
Can't say Pre was routinely beaten on the international stage because back then they rarely competed on it outside of world championships and olympics. Sadly back then the US didn't care much about the track program and in order to be an olympian you had to be amateur so you were broke, could barely live, and everyone outside of the sprinters were routinely beaten on the international stage.
Pre never really won anything international but could have probably done some winning if given the type of environment track athletes have today. The biggest issue for him was lack of competition over here and dying way too young to really have a chance to develop.
To add to the Bowerman talk he was all for natural running and you are right that Lydiard didn't have people slamming down on their heels Willie. I think Bowerman did have a hand in starting a bit of the "take longer strides to cover more ground" junk that started coming out when the jogging boom hit but he was well out of the game by then and only a silent background image of the Nike revolution that had started. The joggers, like everyone else who exercises, were getting in better shape and when the idea of the everyday man (women hadn't hit the scene just yet) entering road races became popular people who were just recreational wanted to know how to improve at these races. Enter the idea of the elongated stride. It was greatly a misundertanding of the long strides elite runners had from the speed they ran at so the mimmicking began and it was mimmicked incorrectly.
Jimmy Hart wrote:...when the
That's because our uteruses were falling out. We've since invented the fabric mesh hammock implant to contain that problematic organ.
Jimmy Hart said:
That's because our uteruses were falling out. We've since invented the fabric mesh hammock implant to contain that problematic organ.
Which, BTW, Bowerman worked
Which, BTW, Bowerman worked feverishly in his basement to create using his wife's waffle iron.
Which, BTW, Bowerman worked feverishly in his basement to create using his wife's waffle iron.
Last Place Jason
Watching Pre and Dave Wottle (in his goofy golf hat) in '71 and '72 is what got me running in Jr High.
Pre was nearly undefeated as a collegiate (lost 3 races as I recall and all in the mile which was not his race) and had some losses on the international stage (most notably the '72 Olympic 5K which, in my opinion, is one of the most captivating distance races in history), but you must keep in mind that he was a teenager for most of that time and was only 21 during Munich. I'm not sure if he would have won the race, but the murder of the Israeli athletes weighed heavily on him during his race and certainly cost him in the long run (pardon the pun).
Also, the AAU at the time made the athletes suffer in unbelievable poverty to retain their "amateur" status. Pre was on food-stamps while representing the USA after he graduated from Oregon.
It kind of makes it tough to train living in a trailer down by the river..
PRE LIVES!
Last Place Jason said:
Watching Pre and Dave Wottle (in his goofy golf hat) in '71 and '72 is what got me running in Jr High.
Pre was nearly undefeated as a collegiate (lost 3 races as I recall and all in the mile which was not his race) and had some losses on the international stage (most notably the '72 Olympic 5K which, in my opinion, is one of the most captivating distance races in history), but you must keep in mind that he was a teenager for most of that time and was only 21 during Munich. I'm not sure if he would have won the race, but the murder of the Israeli athletes weighed heavily on him during his race and certainly cost him in the long run (pardon the pun).
Also, the AAU at the time made the athletes suffer in unbelievable poverty to retain their "amateur" status. Pre was on food-stamps while representing the USA after he graduated from Oregon.
It kind of makes it tough to train living in a trailer down by the river..
PRE LIVES!
