Barefoot?...BAREFOOT?

Bare Lee, I was perhaps to flippant with my comments. Yes, certainly if injury is a concern (and it can be) education is warranted. What I meant to say was that if someone is healthy and happy and want to say they run barefoot (when they don't) then I really don't give it a second thought. If they have light thin shoes then they are closer to it than most, and are hopefully getting many of the same benefits. I have a growing impatience with semantical discussions. For me it's about the running, and nothing else. BF'ing for me is a means to an end.
 
Do you walk-walk into store-stores or walk-skip? Are we going to have a war-war with Iran/Syria or war-peacekeeping? I'm kinda digging this new double-speak.

Actually, I traipse - but that's another story for another time. ...and now, we're not going to war, we're going to have an "ordinance-based peacekeeping mission of love"
 
Bare Lee, I was perhaps to flippant with my comments. Yes, certainly if injury is a concern (and it can be) education is warranted. What I meant to say was that if someone is healthy and happy and want to say they run barefoot (when they don't) then I really don't give it a second thought. If they have light thin shoes then they are closer to it than most, and are hopefully getting many of the same benefits. I have a growing impatience with semantical discussions. For me it's about the running, and nothing else. BF'ing for me is a means to an end.
Hawkbilly, I agree completely. I didn't take your comments as being flippant, and I hope my rushed writing didn't come off as snide. I don't know to what degree injury is a concern, but others have reported that one is more likely to get injured in the 'transition phase' with minimalist shoes than barefoot-barefoot skin-to-ground. As a mediocre linguist, I do have a bit more invested in semantics (and as a citizen, I also have a problem with military/corporate/media double-speak in general), but Jason has made a fairly convincing argument that adoption of the marketing moniker 'barefoot shoes' may do more good than harm. Ken Bob has contested this claim. I run alone and have almost no contact with runners outside of BRS's forums, so I have no way of judging this debate. Mostly, I was just having fun with words. I didn't mean to alienate you and anyone else.
 
Ahhh they are making fun of me...I'm taking my huraches and going home barefoot.

I will comment again when I am more elite.
TMo, I, for one, wasn't intentionally gate-keeping or claiming elite status. Just poking fun at the terms involved. I agree with Hawkbilly that the only really important thing is to run for fun and stay healthy. Footwear or its absence is secondary--although relevant--to that goal. Your case though is instructive--you got injured with barefoot shoes. Also, I'm not sure what's holding you back, but once you build up your callous a bit, I think you're really going to enjoy the sensuousness of barefoot-barefoot skin-to-ground running. It's makes running all the more addictive.
 
I don't think the topic has anything to do with semantics or elitism.
People wearing flip flops don't call themselves barefoot, why would Vibram wearers?
To me there are two main things that occur in barefoot running:
1) the foot is unsupported
2) the sole feels every detail of every surface.
I run in just a pair of shorts, I may be described as "half naked" by some, but certainly not naked.
Even if we accept Vibrams being called "barefoot shoes", it's still silly to call running in them being "barefoot".
Not just pickiness of semantics, but just plain unprecedentedly silly.
 
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Even if we accept Vibrams being called "barefoot shoes", it's still silly to call running in them being "barefoot".
I think the problem is that a lot of people will make that leap. If they have barefoot shoe-shoes, they'll think they're running (exactly in the same way that they would if they were) barefoot-barefoot, and get injured. So it can go beyond silliness, and enter into the realm of perniciousness. I think that's Ken Bob's argument. Jason on the other hand, I think has said, in effect, that the silliness may not lead to perniciousness, but rather recruitment of the bare-curious into a more natural way of running, converting from a shoe-as-corrective-brace-and-protection perspective to simply a shoe-as-protection perspective, which will lead to a reduction in 'traditional' runners' injuries. All I know is I like the simplicity, both physical and semantic, of running barefoot (that is, barefoot-barefoot skin-to-ground BFR, that is, that is, without footwear, including but not limited to shoes and sandals).
 
I'm surprised how much debate sprang up.:rolleyes: There's barefoot and then there's the "barefoot" running style/form. I run barefoot and at times with VFF; there is a difference.

Of course there is. The only "debate" here seems to be about how much you care if one is described as the other. Actually "debate" is probably overstated....it's more of a poll on your relative indifference.
 
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Of course there is. The only "debate" here seems to be about how much you care if one is described as the other. Actually "debate" is probably overstated....it's more of a poll on your relative indifference.
So we are discussing how politically correct and inclusive we may or may not be. I'm a liberal and open minded kind of guy, but last I checked being barefoot required a lack of shoes and socks. Basically, people need to be educated on the differences between running barefoot and running in a barefoot form with minimalist shoes.
 
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I think claiming a barefoot style of running actually muddies the water. It should be just proper form regardless of whether shod or in minimal foot covering.

There is merit to your point about there being proper and improper form. This does not resolve the issue faced by the BFR running community due to the marketing techniques of the shoe industry. While truly barefoot runners do not wish to alienate a potential allie, i.e. the minimalist runner; I don't believe the definition of being barefoot must be compromised or altered for the BFR running community to be inclusive of all parties involved.
 
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I agree with all of the last few comments. Is this a good summary?:

Good form can be achieved either barefoot or with minimalist shoes.

The advantage of running barefoot is greater feedback, useful in achieving good form.

The advantage of running with minimalist shoes is greater protection from surface textures/hazards and temperatures.

Certain types of people seem to gravitate to one or the other, for reasons extrinsic to achieving good form (sensuous pleasure versus love of shoes, for example, or prioritizing 'natural' experience versus optimal performance) but almost all barefoot runners will find themselves needing protection at some point, and almost all minimalist runners can benefit from running barefoot once in a while.
 
I love running truly barefoot. I can't do all my miles that way yet, so I augment with Huraches, not so I can make the barefoot claim, but so I can maximize my skin to ground time and still maintain my training miles. I know Ken Bob and others recommend going totally skin to ground and living with the low mileage, but having gone from 330 lbs to 178 I am not willing to sacrifice my mileage for its health benefits, so I run as much as I can truly barefoot and then don Huraches and finish my training. I am up to 6 miles on the trail and 4 miles on asphalt. I try to increase a little each week.

I actually suffered a broken foot during a soccer practice and have been confined to swimming only for a while. I am itching to get back out there and get out of my cast.
 
I love running truly barefoot. I can't do all my miles that way yet, so I augment with Huraches, not so I can make the barefoot claim, but so I can maximize my skin to ground time and still maintain my training miles. I know Ken Bob and others recommend going totally skin to ground and living with the low mileage, but having gone from 330 lbs to 178 I am not willing to sacrifice my mileage for its health benefits, so I run as much as I can truly barefoot and then don Huraches and finish my training. I am up to 6 miles on the trail and 4 miles on asphalt. I try to increase a little each week.
I'm totally with you T Mo. Everyone has to figure out what works best for them, depending on their goals and motivations. I think it's useful to distinguish between barefoot purism in practice and barefoot purism in ideology. I'm fairly purist in practice, but only because it fits with the kind of running I'm doing/want to do. If I wanted to do a different kind of running that required some sort of footwear, I would put it on without hesitation.
 
I run as much as I can truly barefoot and then don Huraches and finish my training. I am up to 6 miles on the trail and 4 miles on asphalt. I try to increase a little each week.

Now, that's interesting. I split between skin-to-ground (STG? S2G?) and running shoes on longer runs so I can keep up the distance. I would have thought that from a stress standpoint (on ligaments, tendons, muscles, etc...) that there would be virtually no difference between skin-to-ground and huaraches.
 
Tmo, do what works for you. shoes are tools and should be applied accordingly. however everyone can benefit from actual skin to ground without having to convert completely. a little will go a long way in achieving benefits from it.
 

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