Are Vitamins Vital?

[Bare Lee]

Hey, I've always been real bad about taking vitamins. But my kids take three gummy supplements every day. I eat a ton of fruits, veggies, and nuts, but my kids not so much, so vitamins seem like a good idea for them. On the other hand, I know wherever there's a buck to be made, mendacity quickly takes over. Are vitamins just another market-driven scam to create a want where there is no need?

If anyone has read independent (no Andrew Weil-type pill-shills, please) research recommending taking or not taking supplements, I'd appreciate hearing summaries of the argument or having some links to look into.

Thanks,

Concerned Bare Dad.

 

[Hobbit]

Hello Bare Lee,
Well, vitamin pills and similar supplements (oligo elements etc) are a big business, there is no doubt about it.
To the question "Do I really need them?", you will find basically two answers:
The "no"-people argue that you should get everything you need by a healthy sort of alimentation (what you said: veggies, fruits, nuts and stuff like that)
The "yes"-people argue that the content of vitamins in veggies and fruits depends on the relative richness or poorness of the soil on which they were grown.
An example: I was diagnosed (blood test) by a micro nutritionist with a selenium deficiency. (Selenium is not a vitamin but nevertheless an important oligo element.) Even though I ate a lot of eggs, which are supposed to contain selenium, it changed nothing to improve this. The problem is: French soil simply does not contain Selenium, so there won't be any selenium in French eggs or any French products. So it was pills for me ....

After all there is also the quality to consider: some pills and supplements are simply not worth their money

 

[Bare Lee]

Hello Bare Lee,
Well, vitamin pills and similar supplements (oligo elements etc) are a big business, there is no doubt about it.
To the question "Do I really need them?", you will find basically two answers:
The "no"-people argue that you should get everything you need by a healthy sort of alimentation (what you said: veggies, fruits, nuts and stuff like that)
The "yes"-people argue that the content of vitamins in veggies and fruits depends on the relative richness or poorness of the soil on which they were grown.
An example: I was diagnosed (blood test) by a micro nutritionist with a selenium deficiency. (Selenium is not a vitamin but nevertheless an important oligo element.) Even though I ate a lot of eggs, which are supposed to contain selenium, it changed nothing to improve this. The problem is: French soil simply does not contain Selenium, so there won't be any selenium in French eggs or any French products. So it was pills for me ....

After all there is also the quality to consider: some pills and supplements are simply not worth their money

Thanks for the reply Hobbit. Very helpful. If you don't mind my asking, what is your supplement regimen?

 

[Abide]

A guy that went by Zeephyr posted a couple of studies a while back I think, or maybe that was the other site. Maybe he will chime in here.

I figure a multi can't hurt and they are relatively inexpensive so why not? If you were a vegan I would definitely take a few specific ones.

 

[NickW]

I have read several studies that show that you have to be really picky of the supplements you take, not all are created equal. Also, I have read other things that say you should not take the hard vitamin pills, only the liqui-cap ones or the gummy versions, otherwise you just crap out most of the hard pills. I wish I could remember where I had seen those, but maybe that will at least give you a direction to look when researching multi's. Good luck Lee, and I am curious what you find out. It's been a year or two since I looked into multi's so maybe info has changed. (I don't take any personally)

 

[scedastic]

Hey, I've always been real bad about taking vitamins. But my kids take three gummy supplements every day. I eat a ton of fruits, veggies, and nuts, but my kids not so much, so vitamins seem like a good idea for them. On the other hand, I know wherever there's a buck to be made, mendacity quickly takes over. Are vitamins just another market-driven scam to create a want where there is no need?

If anyone has read independent (no Andrew Weil-type pill-shills, please) research recommending taking or not taking supplements, I'd appreciate hearing summaries of the argument or having some links to look into.

Thanks,

Concerned Bare Dad.

I'll try to put together some links for you when I get a chance.
From my understanding, there is NO benefit shown to taking vitamins when you already have a healthy diet/lifestyle and have no demonstrated deficiency. "expensive pee" is the smallest penalty; it is also suspected that too much of any one micronutrient in the fashion of a concentrated vitamin pill could cause other problems.
I stopped giving my kids vitamins a few years ago. Whole foods. They eat healthy enough for me (lots of veg), but sometimes they get kid junk. Whatever. In this country we're always trying to "boost" something when we are already livign way high on the hog.

It's a false dichotomy by the way: vitamins don't have to be scams to be useless.

 

[RunningPirate]

I'll try to put together some links for you when I get a chance.
From my understanding, there is NO benefit shown to taking vitamins when you already have a healthy diet/lifestyle and have no demonstrated deficiency. "expensive pee" is the smallest penalty; it is also suspected that too much of any one micronutrient in the fashion of a concentrated vitamin pill could cause other problems.
I stopped giving my kids vitamins a few years ago. Whole foods. They eat healthy enough for me (lots of veg), but sometimes they get kid junk. Whatever. In this country we're always trying to "boost" something when we are already livign way high on the hog.

It's a false dichotomy by the way: vitamins don't have to be scams to be useless.

This is what I've heard, more or less. If you do choose to go the multivitamin route, I'm read that the hypersupervitamins they sell at GNC aren't worth the expense and that the garden variety Centrum you can get at Walgreens is just fine. That said, it sounds like you eat healthy enough - are you experiencing some symptoms that you think vitamins might address? Or is this more of a "I wonder if I should..." question?

 

[scedastic]

Here's one, with a whole lotta references therein;

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/antioxidants-and-exercise-more-harm-than-good/

 

[Bare Lee]

This is what I've heard, more or less. If you do choose to go the multivitamin route, I'm read that the hypersupervitamins they sell at GNC aren't worth the expense and that the garden variety Centrum you can get at Walgreens is just fine. That said, it sounds like you eat healthy enough - are you experiencing some symptoms that you think vitamins might address? Or is this more of a "I wonder if I should..." question?

I'm fine, and with a healthy diet and exercise I almost never get sick--at most I feel a little rundown for a day or two a couple of times a year before my antibodies have regained control. It's really about the kids, who don't like veggies too much, although they're good fructivores. Just want to make sure they're getting everything they need in these early developmental years. My daughter's five, so she's just about at the age when we can insist on the clean plate club membership, but with the toddler it's pretty hard to be hardassed about it.

 

[Bare Lee]

Here's one, with a whole lotta references therein;

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/antioxidants-and-exercise-more-harm-than-good/

Thanks, great article; perfect really, with so many references. I'll show it to my wife and health-conscious brothers. I really appreciate advice from like-minded people who have been parenting for a while. I don't trust most mainstream info. I know this is overly simplified, but basically, if there's money or power involved, I assume someone is lying. But of course you're right: good, profitable products do exist; and shoddy products can be sold honestly. I just use skepticism as a guideline, not way of life .

 

[ChasingShadows]

I take multivitamins & minerals (remember, the minerals are important too!) as I've not yet got around to doing a full nutritional analysis of my diet but I'm fairly sure there's room for improvement. At some point I do intend to do an analysis (http://nutritiondata.self.com/ is really useful for this, plus sometimes has interesting articles, though as per Hobbit's post, average values are no guarantee of accuracy) & will then supplement more specifically if I can't alter my diet accordingly. I take a fairly high dose of omega 3s as an anti-inflammatory. I'll also take separate zinc pills for a few days if my immune system's struggling & have experimented with a few others from a treatment point of view, rather than supplementation. Just a note to say if you are planning to take high doses of anything, do your research first, some are dangerous in high doses, others can interfere with prescription medicine.
Your kids get gummy supplements? There's progress - my mum forced me to take Brewer's yeast pills (to supplement any B vitamins lacking in a veggie diet), they were the most vile things imaginable!

 

[BFwillie_g]

Vitamins are essential for maintaining life (doi). But I'm 100% convinced now that synthetic vitamins are mostly either ineffective or outright risky/unhealthy. And when you get into the "mega-doses", you're really playing with fire.

The only ppl consistently benefitting from synthetics are the ones who manufacture and sell them. And the only reason they make/sell them in that form is that it's much more convenient and cost-effective than selling things like.... plants and meat.

 

[RunningPirate]

(doi)

Without trying to hijack this thread, I needed to say that it's been about 25 years since I've heard anyone use "doi" (or "doy") in context. Well, done...

 

[Barefoot TJ]

What about Doh!

 

[BFwillie_g]

Without trying to hijack this thread, I needed to say that it's been about 25 years since I've heard anyone use "doi" (or "doy") in context. Well, done...

roflmfao - how does one use it out of context? And am I betraying my age here or what?

 

[BFwillie_g]

What about Doh!

That's Homer Simpson's schtick. I think it just means, "I'm Homer Simpson and I'm a moron".

 

[RunningPirate]

roflmfao - how does one use it out of context? And am I disclosing my age here or what?

Well, out of context would be saying "doi" while performing a eulogy or opening arguments for the defense or something... As for disclosing age, I'm now thinking that we're both of the early 70's vintage...

 

[Hobbit]

Thanks for the reply Hobbit. Very helpful. If you don't mind my asking, what is your supplement regimen?

I don't take constantly supplements, so I wouldn't really describe it as "regimen".
Selenium, as well as some vitamins and minerals can get toxic if you take in too much of them.
In Winter or in times of flu I take natural Vitamin C tablets for a couple of weeks then wean of slowly. (I suppose I could eat lemons and oranges instead but I don't like them - they make my teeth screech out in agony )
It happens that I repeat a cure (couple of weeks) of Selenium when some symptoms reappear (as I said before, this is a specific diagnosed problem for me, so it does not mean that everybody else should do the same!).
I should add: my alimentation is mostly homegrown organic veggies, wholemeal bread, organic dairy products and some meat. No white sugar, no soft drinks, no junk food.

 

[BFwillie_g]

Hey, I've always been real bad about taking vitamins. But my kids take three gummy supplements every day. I eat a ton of fruits, veggies, and nuts, but my kids not so much, so vitamins seem like a good idea for them.
Concerned Bare Dad.

Hey Lee - I wasn't going to write this because I don't want to come off as pedantic, but take a minute and really consider what the gummy bears are actually doing to your kids. The "vitamins" are doing next to nothing for their health, but the sugar (or sweetener, even worse) is boosting their sugar addiction, which is going to cause far more health issues than any vitamin pill can offset. Kids have got to stop expecting everything to taste sweet. It's a huge industry, and nobody in any regulatory agency is going to tackle it. But parents can change the demand and the market will follow.

I put American kid's toothpaste in the same category. Watermelon-Bubble-Gum flavored toothpaste with sparkles is a perversion.

This is a real pet-peeve with me, sorry. "Healthy" products marketed to concerned parents are just cynical, imo. They depend on parents buying into Goebbels-sized deceptive propaganda campaigns. "Healthy" breakfast cereals, instant oatmeal ... even the mini-carrots I've seen American kids snack on - they're (probably GMO-) cultured to be sweeter than normal carrots. They're no healthier than candy, but they give the illusion of wholesome goodness.

 

[Bare Lee]

Hey Lee - I wasn't going to write this because I don't want to come off as pedantic, but take a minute and really consider what the gummy bears are actually doing to your kids. The "vitamins" are doing next to nothing for their health, but the sugar (or sweetener, even worse) is boosting their sugar addiction, which is going to cause far more health issues than any vitamin pill can offset. Kids have got to stop expecting everything to taste sweet. It's a huge industry, and nobody in any regulatory agency is going to tackle it. But parents can change the demand and the market will follow.

I put American kid's toothpaste in the same category. Watermelon-Bubble-Gum flavored toothpaste with sparkles is a perversion.

This is a real pet-peeve with me, sorry. "Healthy" products marketed to concerned parents are just cynical, imo. They depend on parents buying into Goebbels-sized deceptive propaganda campaigns. "Healthy" breakfast cereals, instant oatmeal ... even the mini-carrots I've seen American kids snack on - they're (probably GMO-) cultured to be sweeter than normal carrots. They're no healthier than candy, but they give the illusion of wholesome goodness.

I couldn't agree more. It's been sad watching my daughter transform from a natural-eating Mozambican to a sweet-seeking American. And now my American born son. Still, it's pretty minimal compared to a lot of kids, and when the neighborhood kids come over asking for popsicles, I give them cheese sticks (processed, to be sure) instead. At least I got them using toothpaste without flouride in it. And then there's the shoe battle . . .