180 Cadence

[NickW]

After reading numerous posts where a 180 cadence was mentioned, I have been trying to speed up my cadence even though I had no way to record my exact cadence. It was killing me and I would just feel so beat up and sore trying to speed up my cadence.

I read somewhere yesterday that someone had downloaded a free metronome app(can't remember who but I want to thank you!) and used that to keep their cadence up. I decided, hey, I've got an Iphone, I should do this. I set the free metronome at 180 bpm last night and listening to it I thought, that's odd, that seems a lot slower than what I was thinking 180 bpm is.

I then put it out of my mind till this morning when I went for my run. I turned on the metronome and started running. Wow I thought, this is my normal cadence! I've been trying to push myself at a much faster cadence than needed! No wonder I hurt so bad.

I guess what I'm saying is, if it hurts when trying to speed up your cadence, you may want to find out what your real cadence is as you may already be there and may just be killing yourself for nothing!

On a sidenote, I was able to run 2.1 miles completely barefoot this morning and felt great! Longest run in two months for me.

 

[ladycheshire5]

Congratulations on the long

Congratulations on the long run! And Thank you for this insight... I'm now going to download that app and see what my true cadence is.

 

[joohneschuh]

By accident I stumbled upon

By accident I stumbled upon the fact that it is very hard to do bouncy two-legged jumps in a frequency lower than 180 bpm / higher than 200 bpm.

I´ve put a little video on youtube so you can see what I mean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGHmgzNNLFo

I think it´s worth a try, also because it doesn´t require any equipment and it´t done with your own feet. Well, one item could be useful: a clock with a second hand. 3 jumps per second equals 180 bpm.

 

[Shaun Mac]

I had that exact same

I had that exact same thought. I also just downloaded a metronome for my smart phone, and realized that 180 bpm isn't as fast as I thought.

 

[Matt M]

I did the same yesterday. 

I did the same yesterday. Downloaded the "Metronome" app for my iPhone and took it out on my run. 180 BPM wasn't nearly as fast as I thought. Turns out I was already running pretty close to that.

 

[Barefoot Gentile]

180 is pretty average if you

180 is pretty average if you ask me, and never found it to be fast or to high. I think the 180 debate is over-rated anyways.

 

[Barefootpuffin]

Barefoot Gentile wrote:180

180 is pretty average if you ask me, and never found it to be fast or to high. I think the 180 debate is over-rated anyways.

I completely agree. The 180 cadence debate isn't really backed up by anything (at least from everything I've read). I think it could just be summed up in the statement that it is just a natural cadence. The way I taught myself was to sing the song turning japanese. It's 180 bpm, and I was too lazy to carry my phone with me. I can always tell when I'm out of my natural rhythm or trying to hard...I get tired and sluggish. If it feels like working, I know I'm doing something wrong. Running should be easy/light/smooth. If your run is all of these, chances are you are right where you need to be.



Aaron

 

[Tristan]

I downloaded open metronome

I downloaded open metronome from sourceforge a few days ago, I am sure I mentioned it here somewhere too.

Unfortunately for me it is not easy at all. Imight have hit 180 or higher in previous races during my sprint at the end, but I am pretty sure my average cadence was much slower.

My understanding from the book I am reading is that by increasing cadence to 180 or more will shorten your stride to help prevent overstriding which for me also helps me do a forefoot strike while before this whole concept with a slower cadence and longer stride I am pretty sure I was heel striking. I've also picked up that the shorter stride causes less wasted motion, a longer stride would have a tendency to add bounce and vertical movement. However its difficult for me to stay 'relaxed' while moving so quickly.

One of the problems I have keeping up is actually breathing. I usually synch my breathing with my cadence (do others do this?) and every 4th step is a bit too long but every other is a bit to quick. Every third seems right but it not being an even number plays tricks on me. If I was running harder I am sure I would keep up with every other step but since I am just up to slow running its hard.

 

[NickW]

For me, my stride is really

For me, my stride is really short now. My body only moves forward a foot to foot and half before my foot is coming back off the ground, if that makes sense. It's a really short stride which makes it easier, for me that is, to run and keep my breathing in check. When I run with longer strides while keeping up the 180 cadence I get winded faster/easier. In my stride if my heel starts coming up before I'm lifting my whole foot up that is a really long stride for me.

I may look funny (think fat boy waddling down the road pushing a stroller) but for me it works and it works while pushing a stroller and keeps me from pushing off.

 

[joohneschuh]

Tristan, I also sync my

Tristan, I also sync my breathing with my steps. But odd and even numbers are no problem for me, e.g. 3 steps in - 2 steps out (my natural pace). I even like it when the beginning of one breathing-cycle is always switching from "left" to "right". Anyways. It still can be confusing for somebody else. But it might also be a temporary problem.

When started bf-running, I also found it odd to sync my breathing with the much more frequent steps. I also found it difficult to relax and exhausting to make such quick steps. And I checked my cadence, again and again.

But now some time has passed and all these issues don´t bother me anymore. My experience after almost one year of bf-running is this: At first, everything might feel awkward and it takes some time to feel comfortable with the new running-style. But this will happen eventually. You can trust your own ability to learn new habits which will feel more and more natural with increasing experience.

And then you won´t care anymore about breathing, cadence, and so on.

Keep going and just let it happen!

 

[buzzie]

Tristan-OH wrote:One of the

One of the problems I have keeping up is actually breathing. I usually synch my breathing with my cadence (do others do this?) and every 4th step is a bit too long but every other is a bit to quick. Every third seems right but it not being an even number plays tricks on me. If I was running harder I am sure I would keep up with every other step but since I am just up to slow running its hard.

I tend to take notice of my breathing in relation to cadence...

Typically, on an "easy" training run, it's 4 steps to inhale, 4 steps to exhale. Any less, and I check to see whether I'm going to fast for the day's mission.

I sometimes go to 3 steps to inhale, 3 steps to exhale.



I understand how this could seem awkward; but... if you're musically inclined, think of a tune in waltz rhythm. As a dancer, I tend to think in nameless ballroom tunes - at this tempo, typically, Viennese waltzes. But, here are a few popular (or, once popular!) songs that might fit the bill (although you may need to up the tempo a bit):

• Iris - Goo Goo Dolls
• Fallin' - Alicia Keyes
• Norwegian Wood - The Beatles
• Nights in White Satin - Moody Blues
• Time in a Bottle - Jim Croce
• Annie's Song - John Denver
• Tell it Like it Is - Neville Brothers

You may not hear all 3 beats in these... Listen again and think in sixes: 1 2 3 4 5 6 (where the 1 and 4 are the most accented beats):

(If) I could save time in a bottle... (4 5 6)

(The) first thing that I'd like to do... (4 5 6)

 

[NickW]

Ok, am I missing something

Ok, am I missing something about breathing? Are you supposed to sync your breathing too??? Seems a lot to worry about and think about in addition to cadence, in addition to 1-2-3 landing, in addition to lifting feet up, etc... Maybe it's just me but all this worrying about all these little things seems to take away from just running and running easily.

I've always been taught that your breathing may be erratic and difficult at first if you're out of shape. That's normal, just relax and eventually it will get easier. Heck I'm a fat boy and I now have my breathing under control without thinking about the breathing. I just ran with the knowledge that eventually it will get easier, and it is.

I've just recently found out that your cadence will be there or close to it as well if your form is correct. So now all we really need to worry about is form right?

Or am I over simplifying things? I'm not trying to be rude at all, I'm genuinely curious about this as I've never ever heard of synching your breathing to your steps.

 

[Stephanie Agosta]

It took me a year or so, but

It took me a year or so, but I am able to get my cadence up, currently it is at 186 per minute and I'm working towards 190. I was always a low cadence, bounce off the toes 800 meter runner...really took a toll on my feet

 

[Tristan]

joohneschuh wrote:But it

But it might also be a temporary problem.

Yeah, I do agree. I am sure its just a getting used to the change. I mean I have only had the metronome going on 3 or 4 runs so far and its already noticably easier than the first!

Ok, am I missing something about breathing? Are you supposed to sync your breathing too??? Seems a lot to worry about and think about in addition to cadence, in addition to 1-2-3 landing, in addition to lifting feet up, etc... Maybe it's just me but all this worrying about all these little things seems to take away from just running and running easily.

No, I dont think there is any 'supposed to' when it comes to breathing, I would say whatever works for you! Its kind of like having things neat and tidy. If you have OCD then its a big deal to you. For others, they could care less. There is no right or wrong. I'm just saying it is messing me up. I am not 'worried' about it and could care less, but when it screws you up you dont have a choice to ignore it. It would be like trying to run at a 180 cadence with your metronome beeping in your ear set to 150. It would be really hard to ignore the 150 beats in your ear and try to maintain the 180, or like trying to count something while someone is shouting random numbers trying to screw you up. I might be making this sound like a bigger deal than it really is. Just pointing out some of the minor issues I have run into while trying to up my cadence to the 180, keeping in mind I am brand new at this and only done the metronome on a few runs so far.

If I can distract myself with music and looking at the scenery then the breathing just happens naturally. However while transitioning to bf I am trying to NOT distract myself and really pay attention to what I'm doing at least until the form and such comes natural.

Obviously for those who have always had a fast pace/short stride this is no big deal at all. Personally I was no where near 180 especially while just jogging around, so its a bigger transition for me.

I suspect (and hope) as I train more all these issues should soon be gone.

 

[NickW]

I guess I've always just

I guess I've always just tryed to keep my breathing as easy as I could, which meant going at a pace I could run/jog at easily. When I started running again 6 months ago, I was only able to run at a 15-16min/mile pace. I could walk faster than I could run at that time. Now I am comfortably around a 10-11 min pace and yesterday I ran a singular mile in 8:59. Years ago before my massive weight gain and back surgeries, I was running in the 5's.

I think it just takes time and I guess whatever works for you. I had never heard of synching your breathing to your footsteps. To me that seems like a lot of work and I think I would get frustrated pretty easy that way, but then again if you add too many things to my plate at one time I tend to get overwhelmed and no longer enjoy what I am doing.

 

[Tristan]

buzzie wrote:I understand how

I understand how this could seem awkward; but... if you're musically inclined, think of a tune in waltz rhythm. As a dancer, I tend to think in nameless ballroom tunes - at this tempo, typically, Viennese waltzes. But, here are a few popular (or, once popular!) songs that might fit the bill (although you may need to up the tempo a bit):

• Iris - Goo Goo Dolls
• Fallin' - Alicia Keyes
• Norwegian Wood - The Beatles
• Nights in White Satin - Moody Blues
• Time in a Bottle - Jim Croce
• Annie's Song - John Denver
• Tell it Like it Is - Neville Brothers

Got anything in Metallica? lol.

Yeah I'm not super musically inclined but did play in band for all my years in school so I got the basics atleast. But when I run or work out I like a bit more [intense?] music for lack of better word.

I had never heard of synching your breathing to your footsteps. To me that seems like a lot of work and I think I would get frustrated pretty easy that way, but then again if you add too many things to my plate at one time I tend to get overwhelmed and no longer enjoy what I am doing.

Well thats sort of the thing... It is NOT work, its natural (for me at least). Its kind of like tapping your foot to the beat without realizing it when a song is playing. Breathing for me just naturally wants to be in tune with the tempo. Same thing happend back when I first started jogging with music... at first my pace would always try to adjust to whatever the beat of the music was. Its just my new 'tempo' for the first time is making that kind of hard, and my breathing naturally slacks, and then my pace seems to want to slow down to match and stay in tempo. But this is all probably premature, I'm sure a little while at it and I'll be used to the faster cadence and everything will flow naturally.

 

[NickW]

I'm sure everything will get

I'm sure everything will get easier for you in time Tristan. Everybody has their own unique ways that works for them. Heck, my music I listen to anything from Frank Sinatra to Bob and Damian Marley to Eminem to Marilyn Manson to John Michael Montgomery and on and on. Really like the Time in a bottle song mentioned up there by Jim Croce. A whole mix of fast and slow. For me it works and I can enjoy it while still running the same pace. My wife thinks I'm crazy for being able to listen to the slow stuff while running and working out. For me, I can't just listen to hard and fast music or it burns me out, mentally, so I like to mix it up. In anycase, I got a little off course here, good luck and I'm sure you'll be just fine given some time running at the 180 cadence, I think you just have to build up the muscle memory for it is all.

 

[Matt M]

NickW wrote:Ok, am I missing

Ok, am I missing something about breathing? Are you supposed to sync your breathing too??? Seems a lot to worry about and think about in addition to cadence, in addition to 1-2-3 landing, in addition to lifting feet up, etc... Maybe it's just me but all this worrying about all these little things seems to take away from just running and running easily.

I've always been taught that your breathing may be erratic and difficult at first if you're out of shape. That's normal, just relax and eventually it will get easier. Heck I'm a fat boy and I now have my breathing under control without thinking about the breathing. I just ran with the knowledge that eventually it will get easier, and it is.

I've just recently found out that your cadence will be there or close to it as well if your form is correct. So now all we really need to worry about is form right?

Or am I over simplifying things? I'm not trying to be rude at all, I'm genuinely curious about this as I've never ever heard of synching your breathing to your steps.

I'm in agreement with the others. I sync my breathing to my cadence because that's what's natural and comfortable for me. Usually every left step I breath in and the next left step I breath out (2 steps per inhale and 2 steps per exhale). Sometimes when I'm starting my run, I'll sync it so it's a little slower every other left step is a breath (so it'd be 4 steps per inhale and 4 steps per exhale). It's just come naturally to me. I know if I'm syncing my breathing and my cadence, it's one less thing I have to think about. And I think that's the thing. Do whatever is comfortable for you so that you don't have to think about breathing. There's enough to think about already.

 

[JosephTree]

I found out the hard way that

I found out the hard way that I can't count and run at the same time. For that matter, I can't dance and count without severe hilarity ensueing, either. I started to attend to my paces per breath and nearly hurt myself on a training run recently. Never again!

 

[NickW]

I'm with you JosephTree

I'm with you JosephTree