The History of the Heavy Knee

[happysongbird]

10 or so years ago I tore part of the meniscus in my L knee. The leg swelled up like a balloon and I couldn't bend it for a week. After I thought it had healed (not knowing what had really been done), I lived with it and kept trying to run for 6 months. But it kept catching, sometimes hurting. So, I ended up getting it surgically trimmed.

Up until this last week, it has sometimes felt sort of swollen after running, but never looked it. Plus, the feeling always went away within about 15 minutes. Since my 8 mile run last Thursday, my fastest 8 miles ever, it has been feeling the heavy, slightly swollen feeling off and on. It doesn't hurt. It doesn't even feel consistently worse right after running. It did, however, feel a somewhat less thick when I took a couple of days off of exercise.

Today I opted for a 4 mile run without any hills, but some semi-rough pavement. I thought it would help me work on my form. I do think this helped. I really couldn't feel the knee sensation during running except for a very short time into mile 4, but not even all the way to the end. Now, 3 hours after the run, it feels "better" than it did before the run, but it did that when I ran on Saturday, then came and went with varying intensity.

When it has reacted to runs previously, it has included some strong aching. Not so with what it going on now. The run was not hard and I "feel" like running farther soon.

I have only recently been learning about how to decide when to run through pain and discomfort issues, often helping to heal them, but I am wary of injury due to stupidity on my part. I know that everyone has different experiences with these things, so feel free to offer me your perspectives! It can only help me think this through -

 

[Bare Lee]

My impression is that you train pretty hard most of the time, and that since this last spring or before, you've been training even harder. I know it's in your competitive nature, but perhaps you need to reduce a bit, either in overall mileage, or in overall intensity.

With my MCL issue, I always tried to run just to the point before I would feel it post-run. It's an inexact, intuitive method, but gradually, over many months, I have eliminated my post-run MCL soreness (knock on wood). I found absolute rest didn't help, and maybe even made it worse. It was frustrating, as I didn't make much progress in my running fitness during this time, but I was able to continue running, which is the most important thing, right?

Of course, we have totally different injuries and histories, but since you're looking for different perspectives, I thought I might chime in.

In any case, I hope you heal up quickly!

 

[happysongbird]

It is hard for me to know when I'm pushing myself too hard. On the other hand, I really have been having fun making progress. I will try to back off some until the triathlon (August 10), then maybe I will be able to evaluate differently. I do hate to unnecessarily give up what I have gained.

 

[Barefoot Dama]

The " it has been feeling the heavy, slightly swollen feeling off and on" describes my knee when I had a bad case of ITBS few years ago and that happened when I was overtraining, but of course I didn'y know back then that I was overtraining.
When I had the ITBS issue I didn't feel the band was hurting it was all in the knee one thing I can tell you is that biking gives me "the heavy, slightly swollen feeling' and if I don't stop for sure I'll get knee pain and I don't know why-maybe because of my back? Don't know but I really hope you heal QUICK!

 

[migangelo]

slowing down should help with active recovery. forcing your body to work and repair itself faster when resting instead of pushing it too hard all the time. i've read from many runners who switch to bf that old injuries seem to pop up in the order they received them. newest to oldest and resolve that way. i know, it's a bitch but the other option is sit around and do nothing.

 

[Bare Lee]

It is hard for me to know when I'm pushing myself too hard..

Yah, I know. How do you know when you're pushing too hard before it's too late? It's tricky.

My solution has been to consistently do less than I think I probably could do, which slows the rate of progress down quite a bit, but that's still better than no progress because I'm injured!

It's a lot easier for me to adopt this approach however because I don't have any definite or immediate performance goals like you do. It took a while to get my pride in check, of course, which is why I was getting re-injured. Now I have a lot more respect for the repetitive stress of running, as well as the effects of aging. Even now, I'm a bit worried about my new plan to try to run everyday. If it backfires, I probably won't know until it's too late, so I'm doing my best to keep the mileage and intensities down for at least a few weeks.

I really have been having fun making progress. I will try to back off some until the triathlon (August 10), then maybe I will be able to evaluate differently. I do hate to unnecessarily give up what I have gained.

Progress that leads to injury isn't really progress. It's kind of like borrowing to buy isn't really owning. The only real gains are those you can sustain long-term. We all need someone to tell us this from time to time.

 

[Barefoot Dama]

@Lee, what's up with your quoting style?

 

[happysongbird]

Progress that leads to injury isn't really progress. It's kind of like borrowing to buy isn't really owning. The only real gains are those you can sustain long-term. We all need someone to tell us this from time to time.

But maybe "feeling" something isn't always injury, but just a caution to not undo the gains?

 

[NickW]

Progress that leads to injury isn't really progress. It's kind of like borrowing to buy isn't really owning. The only real gains are those you can sustain long-term.

I need to steal this and put it on the handlebar of the stroller so while I'm out running and pushing way harder than I should I will have a reminder to not push so hard that I hurt myself.

 

[happysongbird]

i've read from many runners who switch to bf that old injuries seem to pop up in the order they received them. newest to oldest and resolve that way.

That's interesting, but it kind of makes sense. BF running has let me reach new levels of running. Seems reasonable that it would test weak areas along the way as I learn.

 

[Bare Lee]

But maybe "feeling" something isn't always injury, but just a caution to not undo the gains?

I'm not sure I understand that, but from what you describe in the lead post, it sounds to me like an overuse injury is quite possible. First, you run your fastest eight miles ever, then your previously injured knee feels somewhat "thick." So you rest it and it feels less thick. Then you run a shorter, easier distance and you don't feel it until the last mile.

This is very similar to my MCL injury. I would push things a bit until I got to the limits of it and it would feel a bit sore post-run, but the soreness would go away within a day or less. So I would back off and run just to the point where it might get sore post-run. After there was no longer any post-run soreness, I would up the mileage again and see where it was at. The last few times I've run long, around 10 miles, I haven't felt any post-run soreness, so I think I may be over it, but it's taken nine or ten months. I also reinjured it during that time when I prematurely declared myself healed and stretched the MCL out while kneeling.

I don't know exactly what you're feeling of course, but my recommendation would be to keep the next few runs to four miles or less, until there's no feeling of 'thickness' and then slowly build up mileage again, and perhaps not do any fast runs for a few weeks. You will probably lose some conditioning, but given your meniscus history I think an overly cautious approach is warranted. I personally fear knee injuries above all else. It's taken me a long time to even think about everyday running, because I'm afraid of "wearing out" my knees, and I've never done anything close to a max squat. I don't want to do anything that might screw up my knees. I have friends who can't run at all now because of knee issues, so I consider myself lucky to have gotten this far relatively unscathed.

You'll run a new "fastest eight miles" again soon enough.

 

[Barefoot Dama]

What you're feeling right now are the early signs of a more significant injury, which means that if you're not careful and continue to push it you might not be able to participate on your Tri.
I think you should dialed back on your training for the time being so your knee can get better for the race.
JMTC.

But maybe "feeling" something isn't always injury, but just a caution to not undo the gains?

 

[dutchie53]

HSB,I am in the same camp as Lee. I have destroyed both knees due to leading a very active life. Between sports and racing motocross they are pretty much done to the extend where a ortho doc took one look at my knee and said that to go in and trim things and repair would probably give me more discomfort than if he was to leave it alone. So the way I ran and trained was pretty much as Lee described it. I would push the pace and distance until I felt light discomfort. Than I would stay at that level or one notch below until discomfort went away, Than I would push it little farther again. It is a difficult thing at times to tell the difference between pain and discomfort as sometimes we tend to ignore pain as that would mean backing off a bit. If it somewhat bothers you, backoff (distance and or pace) until things feel right, and when it feels right for up to a week go up a notch again. Hope you heal well and quickly.

 

[Barefoot Dama]

HSB,I am in the same camp as Lee. I have destroyed both knees due to leading a very active life. Between sports and racing motocross they are pretty much done to the extend where a ortho doc took one look at my knee and said that to go in and trim things and repair would probably give me more discomfort than if he was to leave it alone. So the way I ran and trained was pretty much as Lee described it. I would push the pace and distance until I felt light discomfort. Than I would stay at that level or one notch below until discomfort went away, Than I would push it little farther again. It is a difficult thing at times to tell the difference between pain and discomfort as sometimes we tend to ignore pain as that would mean backing off a bit. If it somewhat bothers you, backoff (distance and or pace) until things feel right, and when it feels right for up to a week go up a notch again. Hope you heal well and quickly.

I think you mean "then"

 

[dutchie53]

I stand corrected.