Sprinting barefoot

sloutre

Barefooters
Aug 7, 2010
324
5
18
Last weekend I reached one of my goals: I ran 13.1 miles in my huaraches.

Now I want to keep a long run on weekends but I would like to do interval training, speed work, etc on week days. The problem is that when I try to run fast my form falls apart. Whether I'm barefoot of in huaraches, on smooth pavement or crunchy road I cannot run fast with decent form.

I know I overstride but I feel everything else is wrong too.

Can anyone tell me where to start? What to focus on? Should I go progressively faster or focus on one critical element of form at a time? How do you do your speed training?
 
I don't speed "train."  I

I don't speed "train." I just run, but if I'm caught out in a thunderstorm, I find I kick my cadence into high gear and start flying to get back to my car. You need to concentrate on turning your feet over faster. I can never get to 200 steps per minute, but I can get to 180.
 
I've been doing more

I've been doing more sprinting during my runs and am really liking it. I think the key is to stay relaxed. Ironically, people generally are faster when they sprint at 90% effort, rather than 100%. I think as long as you stay relaxed, keep the sprints short, and have fun, your form will take care of itself.
 
Thanks for the input

Thanks for the input everybody.

I'll try to relax and keep it short. Maybe if i manage to not overstride everything else will fall in place.

I will also try accelerations rather than trying to start at full speed. Maybe I'll be able to maintain proper form.

At this point I think any type of acceleration/sprint will be beneficial either to improve my general speed or at least to burn some extra fat. I'm thinking of just accelerating once in a while during my run when I feel like it. Do you think a more strict/precise training plan would be beneficial and if so which one?
 
What TJ said:  just remember

What TJ said: just remember that going faster does NOT mean striding further - your stride shouldn't get any longer at all, you just increase your RPM: Turn your feet over faster while keeping the same stride length (think RoadRunner cartoon)
 
Second Wind wrote:What TJ

Second Wind said:
What TJ said: just remember that going faster does NOT mean striding further - your stride shouldn't get any longer at all, you just increase your RPM: Turn your feet over faster while keeping the same stride length (think RoadRunner cartoon)



I have to disagree with this completely. Your stride should lengthen, your cadenece may increase but only by a little.
 
A true sprint in my opinion

A true sprint in my opinion is also a full out effort similar to a max lift. You should be sucking air and have to rest after you get done. Like Matt said a 90%-100% effort, which is only sustainable for a little while.
 
I have examined the

I have examined the stride/cadence issue quite thoroughly. Abide is right, your stride has to lengthen as you go faster. This happens because you have to maintain equilibrium over your center of gravity. As you speed up, you lean further forward, which requires a longer stride. Otherwise, your nose will pay a sudden visit to Mr. Asphalt.

Cadence just doesn't affect this equation. My normal cadence is 200-204. My sprint cadence is 208. As the speed really slows (like below 10:00 or 11:00 minute mile), the cadence will start to slow, because at that point the stride length becomes really short.

I would work a bit on cadence and cutting down the over-striding first. When you have comfortably reached the 190+ area, then start worrying about speed. Keep in mind the "Easy-Light-Smooth-Fast" advice in McDougall's book.

My advice would be the accelerations you talked about, but also that you should build up really slowly. Start with short efforts at, say 70-75% of max. Then start doing longer ones. Then move up to 80%, then 85% etc. All of this should take weeks, if not months. Probably, no more than one day per week of intervals for at least 6 weeks. And if you ever feel that your technique is suffering, you need to slow down. *

Almost all of my sport injuries have come when I start doing intervals. When you start running faster, you may not have the technique down for the new speed. Bad technique will lead to hard landings, thus making stress fractures a real possibility.

This is conservative advice, but after 2-1/2 years of no running due initially to a stress fracture, I practice religiously the motto: No Setbacks. A setback due to injury will always cost more than the benefits gained by pushing it harder.

Cheers

Paleo



*As an aside, my music teacher in college had a rule for practicing. If you can play something correctly, then you are allowed to move the metronome up by one (4 bpm). If you make a mistake at the new speed, you have to cut the metronome in half, and start building up again. Paradoxically, this rule turned out to be the fastest way of increasing the speed of a new piece.

I think this gives us a rule for running technique. Increase incrementally, but if the technique suffers, then you have to drop back significantly.
 
Paleo wrote:My advice would

Paleo said:
My advice would be the accelerations you talked about, but also that you should build up really slowly. Start with short efforts at, say 70-75% of max. Then start doing longer ones. Then move up to 80%, then 85% etc. All of this should take weeks, if not months. Probably, no more than one day per week of intervals for at least 6 weeks. And if you ever feel that your technique is suffering, you need to slow down. *Almost all of my sport injuries have come when I start doing intervals. When you start running faster, you may not have the technique down for the new speed. Bad technique will lead to hard landings, thus making stress fractures a real possibility.

Very good advice, this especially holds true while you are transitioning to barefoot/minimalist running. Your feet take a long time to develop, don't overdo it.
 
I'm not adding to the

I'm not adding to the form/cadence part of the discussion, that seems to be covered. Be safe.

I'm just letting you know that your "sprint for a while when I want" idea is a formal run technique called fartlek, which is a Swedish word that either means "speedplay" or "makes your wife stop asking how your run went". Fartlek runs can be as difficult or as easy as you want because they are simply you deciding, "I think I'll sprint to that lightpole," then doing it, then running normally for as long as you want, then deciding, "Ok, now I'll sprint to the intersection past these cute girls watching me run," and so on as often as you would like. I like running like this more than formal intervals. I think it helps my between-sprint mental recovery as well as the physical. And I bet I sprint more often when I run fartlek-style.
 
good point dirtbag.. but when

good point dirtbag.. but when I was running with a coach he used to tell me it was a fartlek day and I had to sprint at certain points on the run.. overall you are right though..
 
Thanks guys. That's a lot of

Thanks guys. That's a lot of good advices. Since I was not a runner befoer starting barefoot last year I 'm not familiar with all these things and I really appreciate your inputs.



I will try the short accelerations tomorrow during my run. I don't know hoe to tell if I'm at 70-75% so I'll try something slower than all out and faster than my long run pace.

If I understand correctly with more lean my stride should lengthen in the back, so I still land under my center of gravity, right?
 
If you really like to get

If you really like to get into why and how's of running then I've found this blog to have too much information to digest at once but their is a lot of great stuff. He is a advocate for barefoot running as well:) http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2010/08/how-to-run-running-with-proper.html
 
sloutre wrote:If I understand

sloutre said:
If I understand correctly with more lean my stride should lengthen in the back, so I still land under my center of gravity, right?

Yes but your lean still should be very slight. For me the stride and arm swing is what is important you should essentially be doing high knees and butt kickers if that makes any sense. Watch Usain Bolt for a good example. He has a good lean when he starts but straightens up once after about 20 yards and he is at top speed. And pump those arms hard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nbjhpcZ9_g
 
I just wanted to say that I

I just wanted to say that I think Paleo's motto of "No setbacks" is perfect. As someone who has had many injuries before, including from minimal shoes, I agree wholeheartedly. "No setbacks" is my mantra whenever I'm thinking about running more/faster/in a new circumstance, just to make sure I don't do something foolish. Sprinting is good, and I can't wait to do some in the coming weeks. But as with everything, gradually working into it without getting greedy may be the key for most of us to avoid trouble.
 
Lots of good advice here. 

Lots of good advice here. There are just two additions I want to throw in the pot.

Fahrtlek runs are great. When I was a young Army Captain, the instructor at a school I attended asked all of us in the class to give up running except for Fahrtlek runs 3 times a week. In two months, I dropped a minute per mile off of my average time doing only these. The principle behind them is to sprint all out (90%, as Abide has wisely noted; only go to 100% if it will make you faster than your buddy while outrunning a bear) for a stretch (usually between 50 and 200 yards, with the longer distances earlier in your run) and drive your heart rate up and hold it there for a brief time. Then you slow back to a trot until your heart rate returns to normal mild exercise level, at which point you sprint again. We were doing this for about 30 minutes or until we thought we were going to die. You might try a little shorter distances or a shorter period, or even doing several of these sprints followed by a longer period of slower, steady running. The interval training process, which pushes your heart rate up for brief sustained periods, is what provides the most rapid increases in heart strength.

The other note actually comes from Rex Hall, whom I met here at US Forces Command last year as I was just beginning to transition from traditional running to BFR. I was (and frankly, still am a bit) dismayed at the loss of speed and at the potential prospects for regaining any speed at all, much less back to my 6:15/mile traditional running pace. I ran with him to have him watch my form in person and help me improve it. While running, I asked him how one might go about increasing one's BFR speed. A quick check of the math works out like this: in traditional heel-striking form, I was making 54-inch (4.5-foot) strides at a cadence of 188 steps/minute, or 1,173 steps per mile, resulting in a 6:15/mile pace. The BF math is as follows: 32-inch (2.67-foot) strides at a cadence of 233 steps per minute, or 1,977 steps per mile, resulting in a 8:30/mile pace. So by decreasing my stride length by almost half and increasing my cadence by 24%, I've been able to add 2:15/mile with no difficulty at all. The problem is that I'm pretty much maxed out at that cadence, and my soles are pretty much maxed out at that pace (unless I'm on dirt or grass that don't abrade like concrete does, giving me some room to allow more friction as I speed up). Rex Hall's theory was that to increase speed BF, rather than significantly lengthening your stride, which will increase the friction your feet experience due to push-off and braking effects, you should simply hold your feet up in the air for a longer time. This sounds like what Master Abide is advocating from a different angle now that I've read what he says above about " high knees and butt kickers." But my experience is that to get any significant increase and still keep my feet landing under my center of gravity, I've got to lean forward more with my hips at the same time to provide the forward motion without the push-off and braking effects coming into play. The biggest downside to this is that while holding your feet up for a longer time before setting them down, you get more impact on each foot plant due to gravity's pull effectively increasing as you increase the time above dirt. This is a recipe for stress fractures if you don't gradually work up to it. Since my initial stress fracture 7 months ago, I've not even begun to attempt this again yet, and probably won't until this summer (and then, only on dirt, and VERY SLOWLY).



Just more food for thought. As Davy Crockett said, "Make sure you're right, then go ahead." Fahrtlek runs now are a great idea, tailored to your ability; just keep the sprinting focused on getting your heart rate up (again by using Abide's "high knees and butt kicks" rather than forward speed as your means for raising the heart rate).
 
Hello fellow barefooters,I

Hello fellow barefooters,

I noticed that running in 3 or 4 ft. water in a pool will teach your body good form to start. Lean forward a little and warm up by jogging in the pool at first.

This semester, I have joined a water aerobics course at my university and I've got say that that has helped undo alot of damage that my shoes have done on my body and especially form. Try doing jumps in the water and see how nicely you land. First do small squat jumps, then you will develop amazing reflexes in your legs and feet. Then move on to 180 degree jumps, then 360 if you feel it.

I do water aerobics 3 times a week, and I must admit that after running in the pool my running outside became explosive. The pool lets you develp at your own pace without getting injured as the water softens your landing forces. I cannot stress how important it has been in my quest to undo the years of damage on all of my joints.
 

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