PF pain going on 3.5 months

Discussion in 'Health, Nutrition, Injuries & Medical Conditions' started by Meri Steinmetz, Nov 23, 2018.

  1. Meri Steinmetz

    Meri Steinmetz
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    hi barefoot running community!
    I transitioned to barefoot running about a year ago after over a year long battle with hamstring tendinopothy. It was my saving grace and the only thing along with my (4th) physical therapist that helped me.
    I ran in Luna’s all summer in the mountains and came back to my hometown and ran on pavement in them at a significantly faster pace and got PF in both heels. I had experienced some calf and anterior tibia pain prior to the onset. I’ve been resting, not running, massaging, stretching, rolling my feel out with the tennis ball, rolling out my calves, I’ve seen a chiropractor, a sports medicine doctor, paid people to give me more stretches and advice. I’ve begged for relief. I can function most of my day without a ton of paint but I’m never completely pain free especially in my righ foot. I thought I had transitioned well, I thought this wasn’t supposed to happen if I made my foot strong. Now I have doctor telling me to put arch support in my shoes and stop running in minimalist shoes because that’s why I have this.
    I haven’t has this before. I don’t want to get cortisone shots, but I cannot stand not running. I’m losing myself, does anyone have anything they can point me to? I already use correct toes, I already have Vivos that I wear everyday. I strengthen my feet with toe curls and a towel. I just can’t get it to go away.
    Please help.
     
  2. flammee

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    Bend your knees more while running. Or it's easier to do when standing, bend knees to drop down something like 5-10 cm and start running while keeping low. It's not the same as "softening your knees", need to bend them a bit more. So, don't run tall, that's BS.

    It ended my PF pain that had lasted for 6 months. I was having PF pain during a run and then I tried that knee bending - 5 minutes of running and I realised that pain had eased. Afterwards I felt mild PF pains for something like three months, but running with bent knees seemed to help and nowadays it's pretty much gone. At january I tried that knee bending and since then I have run 1700 km, so I'm pretty sure that it works. At least for me.

    And running with bended knee seems to be very healthy way to run, I have no running related mystery pains since then. Before PF I have had knee, shin, hamstring, achilles, foot problems quite often, none of them this year.

    You could also try this, it's great for hamstring problems, which are sometimes somehow related with PF, as muscles form a chain all the way down to plantar.. Just be careful to do only eccentric hamstring work phase, cocentric work tends to make pains worse. So just resist that fall with hamstrings and then get back up without much using hamstrings..


    My experience is that massaging, stretching, correct toes, strassburg sock are of little use. They might feel to help a little, but that doesn't last long.

    I got this bent knee running from this book..
    https://www.amazon.com/Barefoot-Running-Step-Shoeless-Technique/dp/1592334652
     
    #2 flammee, Nov 24, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
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  3. Barefoot TJ

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    I'm sorry you're having to deal with a very difficult injury. PF is hard to deal with, and it seems to take a long time to heal from. The first time I got PF was when I was running clumsy in boat anchors, which is hard to compare to PF caused by minshoes like Lunas. So I have to ask... Have you ever run fully barefoot before? You said you transitioned but then mentioned Lunas.
     
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  4. Meri Steinmetz

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    Reply to first: I will try that, I started eccentrically loading my hamstrings today and my planterfasia and that seems to be having a positive effect. I can’t try running until tomorrow evening so I’ll try bending my knees more and see what happens.

    Reply to the second: I ran barefoot from october 2017 to about Dec 2017 because by Dec I needed to start wearing vivobarefoot Primus lites due to the decrease in temperature and I’m especially prone to chilblains in my toes when it’s cold. What are you thinking?
     
  5. Barefoot TJ

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    I was trying to clarify if you were injured while shod or barefoot. Seems you jumped into the Lunas after a good period of running barefoot. I know a lot of people have developed PF while running in minshoes. They give the false impression that we can run farther than we should and faster than we should... when we aren't ready.

    Is it about Too Much Too Soon? TMTS can occur with either barefoot or shod, but for sure, it happens most often for those who run in minshoes. It happened to me. I developed PF for a second time when running in VFFs.

    The first time I had PF, it lasted two months. I believe it took two months because I was still in transition. The second time, it lasted one month. I believe it was shorter because I was barefoot more often during healing in all aspects of my life.

    To heal, I did the same thing both times. I used the Step Stretch continuously, and I rolled a plastic, frozen, nobby football under my arch. I stayed barefoot as much as possible. Give these things a try. I know there's a lot of debate about not only stretching an injury but stretching in general. Some believe you should. Some believe you shouldn't. All I know is this really worked for me.

    41FC8NFyEDL._AC_SY400_.jpg

    ultraflexx_backstretch.jpg
     
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  6. Meri Steinmetz

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    Did you run at all during the healing process?
    I have the step thing and have done that and not seen very much improvement, I also have worked a lacrosse ball, tennis ball, and foam roller on the bottoms of my arches and it usually increases the pain in my arches. I anticipate that I upped my mileage and my intensity far too much in the week leading up to my injury.
    I ran for 5 minutes today, with the bent knee deal, it felt okay. My arches didn’t hurt on my run but we’re as painful as they have been after.
    I am either barefoot or in Vivos at work all the time. I usually have socks on because my feet get cold but I don’t stray from barefoot often...
     
  7. Barefoot TJ

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    I did run. It seemed my PF pain came mostly after I stood up from being idle for a period of time whether sitting, laying down/sleeping.

    When I ran the second time, I ran fully barefoot, no transition, no minshoes.

    I also remember that I used a night splint. If I remember correctly, the night splint seemed to help a lot the first time I had PF, but caused pain the second time.
     
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  8. Meri Steinmetz

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    I used a night splint and it kinda helps but really I could stretch right before I get out of bed and it feels the same as if I used a night splint.
    I roll with a lacrosse ball right now and a knobby tube shaped roller. It hurts to roll my right foot on my heel but the pain subsides when I walk around for a while. Is it supposed to hurt?
    I’ve been just generally stretching and walking around in vivobarefoot shoes and my toes spacers. I’ll try running for 7 minutes tomorrow. It’ll snow here so I will have to wear shoes but I’ll wear my wide Vivos
     
  9. Gordon

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    When I started this journey, I had PF so bad I could hardly walk. A pair of shoes with orthotics in next to the bed for midnight bathroom trips. Boots getting bigger and stiffer every few years. Nothing helped. Finally I read somewhere, thanks to the internet, that strengthening your feet would help. Started doing a bunch of foot exercises and it did help. Then I read that walking and running barefoot was a good way to strengthen your feet and started that. It was so much fun I never stopped. Along the way, however, it was kinda slow, and kinda up and down. It took years before all of the PF pain went away for good. I found that carrying a pair of sandals with arch support was a lifesaver on walks. When my feet fatigued to a certain point, I put those puppies on and gave them rest. Gradually I was able to go farther and farther and the sandals became history. Once your foot muscles get tired, they can't hold the arch up any more and going farther at that point will stress the plantar fascia. And fascia heals slowly. TMTS has many faces.
     
  10. Meri Steinmetz

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    I’m so happy to hear your story was so successful Gordon, and that your sandals have become history now!
    I definitely am pretty hard on myself (mentally and physically) and I jump into things. So, being able to run all summer with no pain in Lunas had me feeling like I had transitioned slowly enough to avoid this. But the intensity with which I increased miles and pace after the summer ( and the lack of continued stretching and releasing ) probably led me here. I just want to continue running while I heal. I ran for 7.5 minutes today with no increased pain. I will rest tomorrow and see how I feel to do 10 minutes on Thursday. I’m trying to let pain be my guide since my skin can’t be (there’s 6 inches of snow outside). I don’t know if it’s improving but it’s not getting worse- thank you for everyone’s insight and feel free to keep offering information. I eat up knowledge and experience!
     
  11. Barefoot TJ

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    PF can hurt when first standing and lessen after movement, but chronic PF can hurt all the time, from my understanding.

    Keep stretching before you take that first step. What is happening is, the tissues tighten and tear as you step because they are cold. By stretching or wearing a night splint, you prevent this from happening because with stretching, you've warmed the tissues up, and with a night splint, your foot is in a flexed position, so it lessens the tearing that takes place with the first step.
     
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  12. migangelo

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    Stop stretching. Strengthen the feet, hips, and core.
     

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  13. Meri Steinmetz

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    You see, my hips, core and feet are strong. But I think I had some tightness that was getting in the way of properly loading my correct muscles that should have been working. I’ve been working on eccentrically loading my arches, calves and hamstrings. Rolling out the tender spots and resting in between days. I can run 15 minutes at a time with no pain, and then the following day (if I rolled and rehabbed well) 10 minutes. I’m increasing by 2.5 minutes every other day in order to give my body a lot of time to adjust to running again. I am wearing correct toes most of the day and doing some yoga to open my hips and increase flexibility for my strides. So far so good. Any other tips! Thank you for all your help!!
     
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  14. Tyler J L

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    Well I hope the PF gets better for you. It's always nice to have a new barefooter in the group.
     
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