Knee pain

NickW

Guest
#1
Thanks to Bare Lee and his constant questions lately about his knee pain to anyone that might give him advice, I started thinking maybe I should look into my own knee pain that has gone on for a few months now. Initially, I wasn't sure what had started the pain in my knee, but now looking back I am pretty certain that the broad jumps I was doing at the time probably had aggravated it. It wasn't a sudden pain during the activity, but was there when I woke up one morning. The pain is just below the knee-cap, and feels like it's near the surface and not real deep in the knee. From what I have just searched online, it looks and sounds just like patellar tendinitis, also known as jumpers knee.

It was re-aggravated last week while on a run, I had stepped on an acorn that was hidden under a leaf which then acted as a ball bearing rolling under the foot until the sudden stop of the acorn rolling out from under the foot and the foot planting on the ground (jarred the knee with the sudden stop of forward momentum). I hadn't been having any pain prior to this except when I would walk down stairs or run at a fast (for me) pace. Even after last weeks mishap it still isn't too terribly bad and I feel like I can run, but it is a little worrisome that it hasn't cleared up in the last few months despite me having taken a month off due to PF.

My question is, I see a lot of treatments that say to temporarily use a patellar strap knee brace and/or use products like Topricin. Is there anything else I can/should be doing as well? Any better advice than what I've found online? And yes I know it's hard to say for sure without examining my knee so I understand this is just for informational purposes and not actual advice. Thank you all for any advice you can provide. You are very appreciated here!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bare Lee
#2
Thank you for your question Nick.

Knee pain can be very frustrating. In my experience, many causes of knee pain are related to (or start as) muscle imbalances either proximally in the hip or distally in the foot. Due to the unique position of the knee between 2 joints it takes the brunt of their forces.

If you are suspecting you do have patellar tendonitis or "runner's knee" - do a self assessment and guage your quad, hip flexor and TFL/IT band tightness. A simple way to do this is to lay on your back with both legs straight - bring one knee to your chest - if the opposite hip pops up - this is a positive test for tight hip flexors.

Also when you try to do a standing quad stretch where you grab the foot and bring the heel to your butt, does your knee want to pop out to the side? This would be a positive test for tight TFL/IT band

I recommend all runners to trigger point release to the lateral quads, middle quads and medial quads/adductors to maintain good balance around the knee joint itself.

To strengthen the knee you want to do VMO (vastus medialis oblique) exercises like squats with a ball between the knee. I also recommend doing single leg barefoot exercises to train the proprioceptive (nerves) that stabilize the knee joint itself.

The more people run / function with an imbalanced knee joint - the greater the risk of meniscal injury (degeneration) and early-onset arthritis.

Hope this helps!! If you have any other questions - please let me know!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sid
#3
Thanks Doc, I tried both those tests recommended and while neither tested bad (meaning my hip did not pop up nor did my knee try to pull out), my knee did hurt a bit when bringing my heel to my butt. I know I have tight hamstrings right now, kind of had a slight niggle the last couple weeks in them. I'm not sure if that is related to the knee problem, but I do need to figure it out just for overall health and limberness. Thanks again Doc!
 
#4
I guess Nick's reference gives me license to hijack this a bit towards my knee problem. I didn't come here earlier because the last time I posted a question, about tofp, no one replied, but I think this was before Dr. Splichal joined up.

Exactly a month ago I was less than a mile into a run when, on a step like any other, I felt an acute pain in my left knee. I turned around and walked 100-200 yards then ran slowly back to the car, but the next day I could barely walk. I was limping heavily. I was lucky enough to get in to see a sports medicine doc the next day and he said my knees looked great in the x-ray--no sign of degeneration or anything--so he concluded it was nothing serious. And sure enough, the injury has healed pretty quickly and today I just ran 4.4 miles, no problem. I began running two weeks ago after giving the injury two weeks of complete rest.

Here are two photos:
Left leg knee pain 2.jpgLeft leg knee pain.jpg

I drew a dark circle where the pain is/was located, on the lower inside of my left knee. A BRS member has said this looks like a MCL issue. The doc I saw wouldn't venture any specific diagnosis. If anyone has any other ideas, I'd appreciate hearing them.

So my main concern is to prevent this from happening again, hence my 'constant questioning,' as Nick puts it :eek: . One thing I noticed on today's run is that my left foot sometimes makes a little more noise than the right, but as soon as I notice it I can correct it and make the foot land as quietly as the right foot. So there might be a form issue involved, although I'm pretty sure overall my form is decent. I was purposely running a bit slower than normal when I tweaked my knee, and I know my form tends to degrade a bit at slower paces, so I wonder if I landed with the knee less bent than normal.

Besides working a bit more on form and perhaps upping my cadence slightly, to make sure the knee is nicely bent at landing, is there anything else I could be doing? I'm going to be working in more leg stuff into my strength training routine to build up the leg a bit, although I already have relatively strong legs. I'm also going to start doing bounding, skipping, and stairs once a week once my knee feels 100%, to increase overall range of motion, strength, and mobility.
 
#5
Are you sure still no one responded, Lee? I try to watch the treads in the ATD forum, and contact the doc on duty (hee) to let them know they have unanswered questions. (Each doc is assigned a six day span of each month.) What is the thread's link, please?
 
#6
Barefoot TJ said:
Are you sure still no one responded, Lee? I try to watch the treads in the ATD forum, and contact the doc on duty (hee) to let them know they have unanswered questions. (Each doc is assigned a six day span of each month.) What is the thread's link, please?
Click to expand...
Yah, it was this one YJ: http://www.thebarefootrunners.org/threads/tofp-near-ankle.7393/. But no big deal. Shortly thereafter I confirmed that it was just tight muscles all along, and that vigilante massaging fixes it. It was Jimmy Hart's article on TOFP that cued me into the importance of massaging the shin muscles as well as the calf muscles. Thank you for your concern in any case. One question: was it inappropriate to jump in here with my own knee problem? Should I have started a separate thread?
 
#7
Either way is fine.
 
#9
I have gotten knee pain in the same location in the past. I have a quick fix that has always worked for me. I find that I get pain there from imbalances between my quads and hamstring strength. I read that the hamstrings should be 2/3 of the strength of the quads. I simply do single leg extensions and single leg curls on a weight bench and for instance if I'm lifting 30 lbs doing leg curls I up it to 45 lbs for leg extensions. This has always fixed it for me in two or three weeks. The nice thing about the weight bench is you can easily measure the level of imbalance.

Jim
 
  • Like
Reactions: NickW and Bare Lee
#10
Stoplookinatme said:
I have gotten knee pain in the same location in the past. I have a quick fix that has always worked for me. I find that I get pain there from imbalances between my quads and hamstring strength. I read that the hamstrings should be 2/3 of the strength of the quads. I simply do single leg extensions and single leg curls on a weight bench and for instance if I'm lifting 30 lbs doing leg curls I up it to 45 lbs for leg extensions. This has always fixed it for me in two or three weeks. The nice thing about the weight bench is you can easily measure the level of imbalance.

Jim
Click to expand...
Jim, is this in reference to Lees knee pain or mine?
 
#11
NickW said:
Jim, is this in reference to Lees knee pain or mine?
Click to expand...
I was wondering the same thing, probably yours. I would be interested in seeing the reference suggesting that "the hamstrings should be 2/3 of the strength of the quads," if it's not too much trouble, as I intended to start doing some light leg curls and extensions after my knee has been 100% for a while, to help strengthen the joint.
 
#13
Stoplookinatme said:
I was talking about Nick with his under the knee cap pain that hurt more when he went down stairs.
I will try and find the reference to the relative hamstring to quad strength.

Jim
Click to expand...
Ok cool, thanks Jim. It does seem to be getting better since I've been lazy the last couple weeks and stopped going to the gym. I've noticed the 3 sets of 1min of push presses really was aggravating the knee so I was thinking of swapping a different shoulder exercise into my workout in the meantime while the knee heals. Funny, but I've done some longer runs and the knee is holding up great.
 
#15
Those are already in the rotation, I try to do different exercises on my second day for that muscle group every week. If that makes sense. I work shoulders twice a week so I try to have different exercises both days. I do have an app on my phone with a ton of exercises per muscle group (called JEFIT and it's free, just in case you were wondering). The problem for me is I just don't have kettlebells or some of the other equipment for a lot of the exercises they list. It's really no biggie though if I do the same exercise twice a week, it's just my own personal philosophy why I don't LIKE to do that. For me I seem to get better, faster results with not always doing the same exercises.
 
#16
Makes sense. There's so many different ways to approach ST, everyone has to find their own. Have you tried Cuban presses? Those are pretty good. I just started doing them on Abide's rec. I like lateral raises too, both front and side (like making a snow angel), together and alternating.
 
#18
I have not done the Cuban press, but I do both of the lateral raises you mention (front and side). I used to do the front raises up, rotate the arms out to the side while in the up position and then down on the side, then up on the side lat raise, rotate forward, and down, but even with extremely light weights I had several shoulder injuries with that, so I no longer do those kind of movements.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Support Your Club

Xero Shoes

Forum statistics

Threads
19,158
Messages
183,645
Members
8,705
Latest member
Raramuri7

Latest posts

Share this page

Share this page
Top Bottom
Back
Menu