Injury Caused Morton's Neuroma

NE_Ohio_Trails

Barefooters
Sep 15, 2011
14
1
3
Hi all, new to the board ... about time I joined a community BFers.

I’ve been searching and reading the board for Morton’s Neuroma information and have found a lot, but I can’t find the answers to all my questions so I am now asking for your help.
Cliffs: slammed foot into couch ... got MN from it ... what should I do?
Background: I started jogging about 4-5 years ago to keep my aging body in shape (I’m 43 now). Started out just wanting to keep my heart rate up for 30 minutes a few times a week. I found that I enjoyed it and built up to 3-4 runs a week totaling 20-25 miles. Longest jog of 8.8 miles mix of streets and trails in Mizuno Wave shoes.

A year ago my friend lent me Born To Run and I converted to barefoot running since it all made total sense (I am a geologist). Built up to a longest BF jog of 6.5 miles. All of my BF running has been on trails with rare pavement stretches in Vibram Treksports.

At the end of April 2011 I slammed my foot into a couch while playing with my niece and nephew. Toes 2 and 3 bent downward (toward the bottom of the foot) and toe 2 broke the bone closest to the foot. The next day I went to the emergency room where, after x-rays, they taped no. 2 to the big toe … Velcroed my foot to a board … and sent me on my way. I elevated and iced it when I was not at work for about 2 weeks.

I spent about 3.5 months rehabbing on my own before I felt I could jog again. I started off with a two mile then did two 3.5 mile jogs with 2 to 3 days in between each jog. I was generally surprised how good it felt and that it was easier and less painful than walking. The evening and next day after my third run I got shocking pains which seemed like someone tasering the top of my foot. I made an appointment to visit my doctor which would be in 2 weeks. After 4 or 5 days of no pain I decided to jog again. I did a 3.5 and a 4 mile before seeing the doctor. No more shocking pain after that one day.

Upon visiting the doctor she felt in between the 3rd and 4th toes and said “feel this? … you have a neuroma. Rest it, pad it, baby it … hopefully it will go away … if not you will need to see a podiatrist." I am usually barefoot, in loose sandals or in loose work shoes since then and I have been babying it since then.

Questions: 1) Should I baby it or punish it into submission? 2) How long should I wait to see a podiatrist? 3) Is there anything like massaging or stretching that would help? 4) I think you get the idea … what should I do? Thanks in advance for any help.
 
babying it usually seems to

babying it usually seems to be the best course of action for foot injuries. However, the extent that you baby it i have no clue about. You could also ask Barefoot TJ as she has MN and could probably tell you quite a lot.
 
I have never heard of anyone

I have never heard of anyone getting a neuroma from hitting their foot into something, but I guess it's possible.

Sorry for the repeated info to everyone who has heard this before, but here goes:

Studies show the number one cause of MN is they types of shoes we wear.

I would suggest you get an ultrasound to verify that you do indeed have a neuroma. I have four of them, two in each foot, and I cannot feel them by pressing on them, and one of them is ginormous, but other people may be able to feel theirs. I can, however, feel the one without even touching it. It just makes its presense known. Regardless, you need to see that monster to know what you are dealing with, to know that you are truly dealing with a neuroma.

Once you get a real diagnosis of a neuroma there are ways you can try to treat it before succumbing to other damaging therapies and/or surgery.

One that works for some people is called Serrapeptase, an all natural substance created by the silk worm used to dissolve its cocoon. They found that Serrapeptase dissolves scar tissue as well, and that's basically what a neuroma is. It's a nerve that has enlarged due to scar tissue. You take about 120,000 IU each day (3 pills of 20,000 IU twice each day) with lots of water. You can take it half an hour before you eat, but I wouldn't eat anything 2 hours before or after, which is really important to make sure that your body digests it properly. Then once a day use Magnesium Oil, which helps break up scar tissue and increases blood flow, to massage your foot. And take a B-Complex which helps nerve repair each day. Stay off your feet as much as possible for the next three to five weeks, no running. Learn more here: http://serrapeptase.info/pain-overview/morton%e2%80%99s-neuroma/mortons-neuroma/ (And you don't have to buy the book.)

This hasn't worked for me yet, and I've been doing it for weeks, but I do have some seriously messed up nerves (I'll explain in a bit), but it has worked for others. The guy who told me about it was cured within three weeks. He noticed great improvement within one week. By week five, he hasn't looked back.

Then there are other procedures you can try. Are you ready for this?

*******************************************************************
Here's my story as I've told it to others:
I'll attach my whole sorted story below, but warning, I am not a success story...not one procedure has worked for me. This is not to say that the procedures out there won't work for you. Most people have great success with the typical treatments. I just have resilient nerves, and at this point, it appears I may have to go with the last resort...traditional surgery. But to be honest, if I had known then what I know now, I would have elected for traditional surgery and had it over and done with. (Traditional surgery is when they go in and cut the neuromas out. If you go that way, then make sure they take enough of the nerve, so that if it grows back (stump neuroma), it won't be where the metatarsals can compress it.)



What is most important for you to know is that any treatment you have for MN requiring injections will cause you to develop scar tissue in the areas of the injections. This scar tissue will make other treatments down the road more difficult to be successful. Also know that if you try barefoot running for a while, you may be able to run farther than with something minimal; aqua socks/water shoes, socks, or Vibram FiveFingers may allow you to run and for many more months before you have to attempt your first treatment to combat the MN. I could only get 1 - 3 miles in traditional running shoes (trainers), 5 - 6 miles in VFFs, toward the end--just before I decided to have cryosurgery, I could run up to 17 miles fully barefoot. The FiveFingers help some people with MN and hurt some people with MN; some people get benefits from the toes being spread apart, some don't. Don't fret though - barefoot running is quite enjoyable for those who can stand to run barefoot with MN. Most of the people I have talked to who have MN and tried to run barefoot say it hurts a lot less than running with anything on their feet, and they are able to run much farther. Regardless, once it has reached a certain point (that is the neuroma has grown to a certain size) typically does not go away on its own. So doing nothing about it will not make it go away. The sooner you treat it, the better it will be for you. Fast forward to today, after the cryo 1-1/2 years ago, I can only wear the VFFs for about 20 minutes now before my nerves start to fire terribly, so the MN is progressing.



It's also important that you know WHAT caused this condition. Shoes constrict the movement of the metatarsals, preventing them from splaying properly. This confinement causes the metatarsals to press on the nerves causing them to grow. Any pressure on the toe box area/ball of your foot, will aggravate that area. Wearing any shoes with the heel elevated will also lead to your placing too much weight on the forefoot, which can also lead to MN. If it continues on untreated, you will find that you can only wear flip-flops. I can only wear flip-flops and VFFS for short periods of time. Also know, that when winter comes, I actually find it easier to run on the cold ground. The frozen ground keeps the nerves from swelling too much, although they will still swell after a few miles, so I am able to run on.



My first course of treatment was orthotics. As far as orthotics go, I believe wholeheartedly that for most people, they are a waste of money. I spent $300 out-of-pocket for custom-casted orthotics, and they only made my neuromas feel worse and gave me knee pain during my runs. (I would have to ice my knees after each run. Removed the orthotics, no more knee pain.) I would advise against them and say "save your money." Of course, a podiatrist will tell you the opposite. I can't honestly say they will or will not work for you. All I know is that there must be a reason why most health insurance companies don't cover them. Could it be because they've learned the success rates for treating foot conditions with orthotics is quite low, and considering the expense to make them, it’s not worth the gamble? I think so.)



If you are contemplating surgery, just know that traditional surgery isn't your only or first option. You could always try cortisone injections. The con with this is that the relief only lasts for a few short months, if it works at all; I believe from talking to many other people on the running forums that only very few people experience relief, and all of them have to repeat the shots a few short months later. This didn't work for me at all. (On a side note: I also understand that cortisone can break down tendons, and if inserted in the heel for plantar fasciitis can cause fat pad atrophy (breaks down the tissues in the heel) and can cause the plantar fascia to rupture.) Please discuss this with your doctor.



Now about the shots, any and all types of shots...they are NOT supposed to hit the nerve, just place the needle near the nerve. If you decide to have any type of shots, be sure they use the "Cold Spray" first, and if it is of a low concentration that they actually spray it for SEVERAL seconds before inserting the needle; if it is of a high concentration, you will know it pretty quickly as it can actually feel as though your skin is burning. If you get someone who is competent, the pain is tolerable. It is also very important that the doctor has an assistant/nurse with him when/while he does it. My first podiatrist decided to forgo his nurse and do the cortisone injection by himself. He only held the spray on for like 3 s
econds with one hand and then stuck/jabbed the needle in with the other. The needle went ALL THE WAY through my foot! He actually hit the nerve as it punctured through. This caused some sort of reaction--there's a medical term for it, but I can't remember it--and I began to hyperventilate, and I had trouble breathing. My hands folded like lobster claws, and I couldn't open them up. My waist was bending, and it was as if I was being forced to double over. I was extremely hot and perspiring. This lasted nearly 7-10 minutes. Needless to say, I searched for another doctor and other options.



Another option is Alcohol Sclerosing injections. The point of the Alcohol Sclerosing shots is to kill the nerve. My second podiatrist used B-12 in the injections, which made absolutely no sense to me. The shot is supposed to kill the nerve, but the B-12 is supposed to support cell growth. To me, that's a contradiction. (The con is that it takes anywhere from 3 to 7 sessions/visits to complete; depending on how many neuromas you have. I have 2 in each foot, so therefore, each session involved 4 needles. I went 4 times. That's 16 needles. Many people have experienced success with this. Some felt complete relief, and others felt only some relief. I felt absolutely NO relief.)



Then there's Digital Electrical Analgesic Shockwave Therapy--with numbing shots. This procedure is believed to rejuvenate cell growth/speed healing. (This may or may not work for you...who knows, since it's a fairly new procedure. Apparently, the technology has been around for a number of years, but the process for treating MN and other foot problems is really new. It didn't work for me. I understand that if you don't feel relief after the first session, there is NO NEED in going for a second session, third, etc. No one bothered to tell this to me, so I went for 5 sessions and gave up. Those 5 sessions involved 2 sessions of numbing injections. That's 8 more needles!) Another thing I didn't understand was why would a podiatrist perform Alcohol Sclerosing injections to kill the nerves in 4 previous visits but then the same doctor send me to 5 sessions for a procedure that promotes cell health? Was he trying to kill them or give them life?



I had ultrasound-guided cryosurgery on all four nerves during the last week in April 2010. (Notice I said ultrasound-guided. I fully believe there is no other right way to do this. If the doctor can’t see what it is he is freezing, then how does he know what he is freezing-bone, tendons, ligaments, etc.?) With cryosurgery, you are completely awake; therefore, this surgery required three more shots per nerve (one inserted near the neuroma and the other two inserted between the fine webbing of the toes). Since I had four neuromas, that equated to 12 more needles. Then there were four teensy-weensy incisions made in the webbing to allow the cryoprobes to be inserted. You aren't supposed to feel the doctor turn up the dial to the cryoprobe, but I did on one nerve quite intensely and had to just deal with it. Recovery was quite painful and took forever to heal from. Others have reported getting back to work within a few days. They more than likely did not have four neuromas with both feet affected. After the surgery, I was pretty much immobile for 2-1/2 months and didn't begin to get around or even attempt to run until 3-1/2 months afterwards. In that time, I got around by walking on my heels just trying to avoid putting any pressure or weight on the balls of my feet where the cryoprobes were inserted, since it was so painful to do so otherwise. I developed a bad case of Plantar Fasciitis because I was walking around on my heels for so long. I was led to believe that the recovery from cryosurgery was to be quick, only 2-6 weeks, not months! That was the purpose for choosing cyrosurgery over traditional surgery: the down-time is less, and it is less invasive.



It is possible that I have developed so much scar tissue from the many prior injections--37 needles in all!--and it was seen on ultrasound before and during the surgery, that the cryoprobes were unable to penetrate the scar tissue to reach the neuromas accurately. (See special note about scar tissue above.) Although others have had success with cryosurgery, it didn't work for me. I sometimes still have the rubber band snapping feeling when I first place my feet on the floor and for several steps afterwards, which is a good indication that my problem has not resolved. After all this time has passed, I still have no relief, I still have trouble walking or running on soft surfaces (carpet, grass, sand, trails), the neuromas still hurt terribly if I've been on my feet for a long period of time, and the amount I can run is getting to be less and less, even while running truly barefoot. Now, it looks like traditional surgery is the only option left for me, and I am considering doing so in January or February.
 
I know.  You're like geez,

I know. You're like geez, lady, all I wanted was some advice, not a book!

Sorry. Hope this all helped.
 
Thank you I will read all

Thank you I will read all this later. My searching around the forums found a lot of info on the shoe produced MN but I found nothing on injury caused ones and I was wondering if there was any specific experience with that. My doctor and some other research I found indicated they can be caused by trauma to the foot.

Thanks again ... now I need to figure out how to join the Ohio group
 
Go to the Chapters link

Go to the Chapters link above, type in Ohio in the search field, and select to join that chapter.

I would think that an injury-induced neuroma would heal easier than one caused by shoes, since the injury one was a one-time thing, and the shoe one is something that has been building up and building up over a period of time.
 
Almost 6 months since my

Almost 6 months since my injury and I think I will start running again.
bigsmile.png


Update to the post, only one incident of lightning bolts in my foot since my last post. Feeling for the neuroma I can't seem to find it anymore. I think babying it was the way to go. I will update after some runs.
 
Six months!  You are a

Six months! You are a patient one, that's for sure, and that's good. I never can feel my neuromas with my fingers though. Mine must be really embedded deep, although I understand from ultrasound, they are ginormous. I can, however, feel the largest one without even touching it. Another thing to consider is a traped nerve. It's similar to that rubber band snapping feeling some people, including me, get on the underside of their toes., except it can be very painful, sort of like a tendon issue. It tends to come and go for me. Right now, it's gone. Last week, it stuck with me for about three days.

Good luck on your first run. Please let us know how it goes.
 
I did 2.5 miles on dirt

I did 2.5 miles on dirt trails on Friday! Feels great to get out again
bigsmile.png
. It is now Monday and I have not had any shooting pain like I had after I tried to run after 4 months.



With 6 months out of action I thought I would be gasping for air and have burning muscles so I was prepared to do a lot of walking the up-hill sections but I had no problems with stamina or strength.



Hey TJ, I don't think I mentioned this in my original post, but I came to this forum because somewhere in my searching for MN info I saw a mention that TJ on BRS is the leader in all things MN. Glad I found this place and thanks for everything. Good luck with your MN fight!
 
It's good to know some people

It's good to know some people are finding recovery and happy running again. Glad the first run back felt so good.
 
I did another 2.5 mile trail

I did another 2.5 mile trail run on Monday and everything went well during the run. On Tuesday and Wednesday my foot felt strange and I finally realized maybe I need to crack my toes (I used to crack my toes before the injury). So I cracked my toes on Wed. evening and it felt great.



Now, Friday (have not run in 4 days) morning ... pains on the top of my foot. Not taser shocking from below as 2 months ago. Feels like I need to crack my entire foot. I have been standing on it with the other foot and that feels good. Hard to explain. Any ideas or comments appreciated.
 
Crack your toes!  Ouchie

Crack your toes! Ouchie momma!

Maybe start a new thread in this forum, since this seems like a different issue from MN, but I have heard that people who crack their nuckles and stuff all the time will end up getting arthritis. The docs can tell us if this is possible or not though. Just something to think about.
 
TJ, I just had a doctor tell

TJ, I just had a doctor tell me not too long ago that cracking of the joints does not give you arthritis. Apparently it's a wives tale. If he's wrong would someone please correct me so I can correct him next time.
 
I did some research on the

I did some research on the cracking joints and I am amazed how little we (humans) know about it. I don't even think we know what is happening exactly. As far as arthritis goes depends on where you look.



An update on the MN, seems to be gone ... hopefully forever.
 
So jealous, but so glad your

So jealous, but so glad your MN is a thing of the past!
 

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