Hydration - How much is too much?

[LavaRunner]

I was having a discussion with a girl in the office today after showing her my new Nathan Hydration pack. She asked how much I drink on a typical run and when I told her she got all freaked out. She is an avid runner too and has run a few marathons. She thought I was overhydrating.

On an average 10 mile run in 80-90 degree heat I will drink two 20 oz handhelds in about 1:40 to 2:00 hours. Often I am thirsty and out of water by the end of a run and I don't pee for a good hour or more after the run. I sweat like a pig, if pigs really sweat. As an example, I can wring a lot of water out of my shirt, my body is soaked and if I wear vffs, I can get water out of them as well and I might lose 2 lbs on these runs even after drinking 40 ozs of fluid. The fluids I am drinking aren't water but one nuun tablet per handheld so that I also get some electrolytes.

I bought the hydration pack because I intend to kick up the long runs to 14, 16 and 18 and start doing dual run days over the next two months and I don't like driving out and stashing water before I take off because sometimes I change course in the middle of a run if some street or trail looks interesting. The pack seemed like the best way to go and I can haul along the huaraches in the pack.

Do you think I am overhydrating? She says she can get in a 18 miler on a single handheld. She is small and sweats a lot too.

 

[LavaRunner]

Some more background

Some more background info.

Todays run 6.2 miles, 1 hour and 2 minutes.

Temperature 91 Degrees and 52% humidity

Starting weight 224.5

Ending weight 220.0

Drank 20 Oz with one Nuun tablet so I lost 72 oz even after drinking 20 oz and didn't piss

Is that really possible?

 

[Barefoot Larry]

I use a fuel belt for my

I use a fuel belt for my runs, six 8 oz bottles are on it. I don't think you are overhydrating, because your ending weight is below your starting weight. Keep doing what your comfortable with, especially with this heat and humidity. I go through the same amount of liquid for 10Ks.

 

[NakedSoleNate]

 I think it's an individual

I think it's an individual thing too....what your capacity is...anything less than two hours, and I don't bring anything to drink...but I stay pretty hydrated (I drink water all day, pretty much all I drink, except for beer and whiskey on my time off)...I'll have 2-4 tall glasses of cold water when I get done too...I am looking for solutions for when I am out longer however, I hate carrying stuff, and I dislike having something around my waist...but maybe it's just a matter of finding the right thing....planning "water drops" won't work, because usually when I'm out longer, I'm in the wilderness away from any form of drivable roads....BUT there is plenty of water to be had naturally, so I'm thinking of getting one of those press bio-filters that fits into a water bottle.

 

[jschwab]

Everybody is really different

Everybody is really different - it doesn't sound like too much to me. If you are 220 lbs and she is a small woman there could easily be a 100 pound difference in your weights.

 

[LavaRunner]

I ran 14.1 miles this morning

I ran 14.1 miles this morning on trail and old dirt road (The C&O Canal)
It was pretty hot and I finished off the 70 oz hydration back as I walked to the car at the end. I am sure I could have went a few more miles on it had I wanted to make it last however it seemed about right and the total weight loss was 4 lbs even after drinking 70 oz water. I also tried something new that I think I like. Clif shot bloks. Other than needing a lot of water to wash them down afterwards they were really easy on the stomach.

I'll just hydrate the way I want and do what feels right. I was sweating the entire 2.5 hours running and never really felt as if I were in heat trouble so I must be doing something right.




Here was the scenery for the last 2.5 hours

 

[Barefoot TJ]

The perfect trail. 

The perfect trail. Beautiful. What was the temps during your run?

 

[NakedSoleNate]

 TJ, I don't know about an

TJ, I don't know about an hour south where Lava Runner is....but here it's effin' hot...If I wasn't up and down the mountain for four hours yesterday, I might have found another reason to NOT be outside today ...and yet, there goes Lava for 14 miles :-D

 

[Barefoot TJ]

It was so hot here last night

It was so hot here last night on my 10 p.m. run, I can't imagine what it would have been like if I had left around my usual 7 p.m. time. When I stepped outside, it felt like a sauna but with desert heat, not the dry kind. I stripped my top off within just a few hundred yards and just wore my sports bra to run in (well, and everything else but shoes!), and I NEVER do that. I figured who would care? It's dark! Some cars slowed down with their headlights blarring at me. I must have been a sight to see, not that anyone wanted to. I guess it's best I always run in the dark in that case.

 

[LavaRunner]

It was in the low to mid 80's

It was in the low to mid 80's when I started and when I finished in the 90's. It is rediculously hot out there. Running in the trees was really nice. I am usually baking on the asphalt but there was no wind. It was stiffling.

 

[barefoot kean]

Just a quick suggestion, when

Just a quick suggestion, when you are re-hydrating yourself don't drink cold water (or at least not very much). The reason being is that when one drinks cold water our bodies feel immaturely hydrated because our core temperature is lowered artificially via the transfer of energy due to the coldness of the water. The obvious crappy part is the lack of cold water, but in the long run you will be better hydrated and cooler.

 

[NakedSoleNate]

 I drink cold water to

I drink cold water to increase the caloric burn...but I do make sure I stay hydrated enough.

 

[Jimmy Hart]

to kean's point you should

to kean's point you should drink cold water before a run as it will help you go longer and farther with less effort due to the cold water cooling the body temperature.

to lava...drink all you want. there are countless studies on this subject and some would say your co worker is toying with her life and so are you nate! man you're a camel. the majority of studies will recommend something like 6-8 oz every 20-30 minutes during runs in temps of 80 or more. for runs under that 80 degree mark they say you can get away with less but not much. sounded like a lot of water to me but when i started trying to get around that much during my runs i ran faster, had more energy, and recovered quicker so it made me a believer.

 

[LavaRunner]

Well, never fear about me

Well, never fear about me drinking cold water. Never have liked anything but room temperature water. It must be my left over European genes. I feel great today, not bogged down and tired like I used to after a long run. I think drinking all I wanted made a difference in my energy level. although I was really conserving on most of the run there were times in the last 4 miles I was in form, rocking well and running 8's. That is pretty good for me.

Calves feel a tad tight today but zero pain. It is awesome. Last time I ran a 14 was last string and I ended up with the worst case of shin splints and they never really went away until I took off my shoes.

 

[BFWendyBird]

 Huh, interesting about the

Huh, interesting about the cold water. Lately I've been stopping at the house to add ice to my water bottles, maybe I should knock that off. I'm still not clear on why this makes you less hydrated.

I drink I LOT of water when I run and the only think that slows me down is sometimes I drink too much during a walking interval and get a stitch on the next running interval. I add Gatorade or Cytomax to one or two of the bottles on my hydration belt, but even on a 1 hour run it isn't unusual for me to go through all 4 bottles. Sometimes I go through less, sometimes have to stop and refill somewhere, depends on how well hydrated I was to start and if one is designated a dog bottle, or if I'm squirting water down my face and back

I think if you are keeping your electrolytes up enough and feel good, then you are drinking the right amount of water.

 

[jschwab]

I just thought I'd mention

I just thought I'd mention even though I don't think you are drinking too much water that it is also not harmful to slowly adapt the body to needing less over time. I made it my mission a while back to reduce the amount of water I required just for conveniences' sake and it really is possible to cut back on it. But it takes a little time to adapt.

 

[NakedSoleNate]

 I think for me, like I said,

I think for me, like I said, I stay pretty hydrated, but I'm used to going 2-3.5 hours of intense workouts in the Kwoon (kung fu school) without breaking for water....it was what we used to train with....now, we let people drink during classes...but I've never really felt the need, of course, I guzzle it after, and drink continusously before / all day....sipping on water....I think my body is just used to it....I do keep an eye on my urine too though....the only time it gets concentrated is not from working out...it's the day after a big party :-D.



I do have to say though, I spent 4 hours on the mountain on Sat. (not running all of it, hiking, etc...running some of it, when I found the trails again after loosing them ;-) and I DID NOT bring enough water...bushwaking and bouldering in bare feet is quite a workout :-D. That's why I have questions on it too....I'm no where near being able to run for two hours straight yet...but after today's 55 min. this AM....I probably should have had a bottle on me.

 

[barefoot kean]

To BFWendyBird, its not the

To BFWendyBird, its not the fact that cold will hydrate you in an inferior manner compared to room temp water. Its because when its cold your brain will receive the message that you are hydrated when you could probably use a little bit more due to the immediate heat exchange and transfer of energy due to the endothermic properties of cold water. But so long as you drink the same amount of water as you do when its not cold you will be perfectly fine.

 

[BFWendyBird]

Ah, got it.  My problem is

Ah, got it. My problem is usually that I still feel thirsty but if I put more water in my stomach I get a side stitch, so maybe ice water is better. I also try just rinsing my mouth adn spiting the water out part of the time to keep the stickyness away without chugging too much.

 

[LavaRunner]

Thought I'd bring this around

Thought I'd bring this around again.

Last thursday I did an almost 18 mile run home from work in close to 90 degree heat.

Couple things I know. I sweat like a pig, need a lot of water and there was no really good place in between to fill up.



So I loaded up the Nathan with 70oz of water and a 20oz handheld and off I went. Starting weight, just a guess based on my decent knowledge of my body was 225lbs



I attempted to drink one 20oz handheld every 5 miles. The plan was to run a 12 minute pace so that would be 20 oz hr. I ran a much faster pace so it was more like 20 oz every 45 minutes. This worked until I hit a wall and really started drinking a lot of water around 15 miles. by 17 I was though the wall, and out of water. I ended up stopping at McDonalds by my house for a Sweet tea in the shade and called the wife for a ride the last mile since the legs got tight sitting around. (I regret not just busting out that last mile)



When I arrived home, I weighed in at a whopping 218 making a loss of 7 lbs. making total water loss 202 oz, 90oz that I carried and 7lb or 112 oz that I lost.



This isn't a new problem but it concerns me because I am training for a 50 this fall and I need to be able to keep hydration up during the summer as I increase into the 30 miles and even 40's training.



I see myself rolling a 5 gallon jug of Nuun in a wagon at 40 mile runs at this rate



Oh, and I like running in the heat. I know, Call me crazy but I know it makes me more efficient in the long run and it feels good.

Another reason I bring this up is reading LPJ's Western States 100 report. He was having issues gaining weight in very similar temperatures. This completely boggles my mind since gaining weight is never a problem for me running. A couple ideas came up reading Jasons race report.
[*]I was using 1 Roctane Gu every hour. One before the run, then 3 on the run. I need to start eating them more like 2 an hour. I am certain this would help the Electrolytes and some water retention.[*]I need more calories durring the run. Maybe haul along a PBJ. They always do well with me on runs and the extra Gu would help too[*]Add some Accelerade to the Nathan. Pure Water, although it tastes great seems to not be enough.[*]Take along some cash. If I run low on water, stop and get some gatorade or something in me.[*]Suck it up. I am so freaking pissed at myself for not just running that last mile. even after drinking a big glass of icedtea I could have made it. It has eaten at me for a week. Next week I am runing home again just to clean this brain fart up
Any other thoughts from anyone are appreciated.

I am reading Dean Karnazes 50/50. He talks about doing a Runabout. Basically get up at sunrise, start running and stop at sunset. Walk when you need to walk, Jog when you need to jog and run the rest of the time. The idea apeals to me and since there are trails all over DC I can have a great time exploring the area and log some serious miles. I just need to plan around hydration and food.