BF and Pilates - a project

[Jennifer Gwirtz]

Hello everyone,

I've semi-lurked for a bit, occasionally posting here and there, mainly in the injuries section. I thought, perhaps, it was time to take the plunge, so...here it is.

Like I mentioned in my intro, I'm a Pilates instructor. I teach fitness and restorative work, pre- and post-natal. Like many Pilates people, I came from a dance background and have had way more injuries in my life than I'd like to admit.

I stumbled on BFR about a year ago, and there's been no turning back. It's as good a high as dancing, but it goes on longer.

I'm in a program through Balanced Body University called "Pass The Torch" where I'm studying with Pilates Master Teacher, Elizabeth Larkam (who now has the link to this site, so she may show up here at some point). We've been talking about and working on ideas about barefoot gait and helping people to work towards healthy BFR. One of the things that we've been looking into is how the core works to support healthy, painless gait while BFR. Beyond feet, legs and hips, the core works differently during BFR and walking than in shoes. We're starting from the idea that (to restate something said often) people used to naturally have that strength and constantly trained it because they were shod more minimally. Since "supportive" shoes became the norm our core strength has gone steadily downhill along with our posture and feet. I believe that this core strength is harder to get back than it seems because we don't have any models to reteach us that muscle memory. My goal is for everyone to avoid the dreaded transitional TMTS injuries that happen as runners work their way back into that strength. One day there will be so many people skilled at BFR that everyone will run barefoot from childhood and be able to take that power for granted.

It looks like many here are having their journeys with these issues.

I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts about the core, gravity and their experiences running, whether you do core work and if so, what you do and whether/how it helped you.

I don't know too many BF runners here, but I'd love to give some very discounted Pilates sessions to folks who are already running if you're close enough to our San Francisco studio to come visit. I'm writing something at the moment and the resulting material will be a part of that. It may be a book. Or a workshop. Something like that. It might just be a lifetime of work with BF runners.

Let me know.

 

[Barefoot TJ]

The best way to avoid TMTS is

The best way to avoid TMTS is to ditch the shoes entirely and learn to run barefoot by "running barefoot." It's when we jump from traditional boat anchors to minimalist shoes when we get injured because we think we can continue running the same distances at the same speeds. When we relearn how to run "the right way, the natural way," our bare skin tends to prevent us from running too far and too fast too often, therefore our changes of experiencing TMTS injuries is lessened considerably, compared to our minimalist friends.

One day there will be so many people skilled at BFR that everyone will run barefoot from childhood and be able to take that power for granted.

Thanks for doing your part to make that dream come true.

 

[Barefoot TJ]

BTW, My back has always been

BTW, My back has always been a mess. I used to not be able to sleep on my stomach for very long, because my back would ache so bad. I know my back is much stronger since I've been running barefoot versus when I used to run in shoes because I can sleep much longer through the night without have to roll front to back, back to front.

 

[Jennifer Gwirtz]

The best way to avoid TMTS is

The best way to avoid TMTS is to ditch the shoes entirely and learn to run barefoot by "running barefoot." It's when we jump from traditional boat anchors to minimalist shoes when we get injured because we think we can continue running the same distances at the same speeds. When we relearn how to run "the right way, the natural way," our bare skin tends to prevent us from running too far and too fast too often, therefore our changes of experiencing TMTS injuries is lessened considerably, compared to our minimalist friends.

I agree about ditching the shoes, but it works in the other direction, too. Bottom up and top down, inside, outside, etc. The body has to work as a whole system, or an ecosystem, depending on how you look at it. I think both getting the shoes off is helpful, and a way into the core, and going from the core down is just another way to experience it. It depends on where a person's issues lie. My feeling is that we are all runners by nature, not just folks who are in the culture of running, and many will not want to start with the goal of running because that culture is not a draw for them, especially if they've lived through the 80s. I don't even suggest it, but I do tell my clients about my experiences doing it, hoping that the bug will catch, eventually.

I do think that the strength that human beings once had is hard to get back once it's gone, even if you take off the shoes and start running. Once kids start getting in the habit of sitting for long hours for school, commuting or screen time they start to lose that vitality and wind up as adults with no connection to the ground or the strength that accompanies it. In most places it's not something you see regularly so we don't feel it ourselves. It's also like when we often see people who don't use their core muscles when they walk, we're less likely to feel it in our own bodies - my impression is that we're deeply social that way.

When a client's instinct is that they can't take their shoes off outside the studio, then there's something in their body that's not ready for that move. I find that spending some time seated or on the back feeling the bare soles of the feet against the floor or a surface that mimics that feeling, how the sensations they get interact with the torso/shoulders/head, etc., makes a difference in a person's ease without the foot suitcases.

I wish there were more places around here to ditch the VFFs. Recently I've thought about looking around, asking people for advice and typing up a guide to good BF places in San Francisco. Have you seen a list like this before around? I've seen it for other cities, but not SF. Our big parks seem okay on the asphalt, but I've seen tons of glass, broken drug paraphernalia and all kinds of nasty stuff on the paths and grass. On the other hand, I've found that the rich people keep their golf courses and museums pretty clean, so that's an option, although the museum-goers are more likely than other people to snarl at a shoeless runner. Then there's the golf ball hazard. /sites/all/modules/smileys/packs/Roving/glasses.png

BTW, My back has always been a mess. I used to not be able to sleep on my stomach for very long, because my back would ache so bad. I know my back is much stronger since I've been running barefoot versus when I used to run in shoes because I can sleep much longer through the night without have to roll front to back, back to front.

I'm glad that your back is better! Although I can't see to be certain, if your back feels better, most likely that's at least partly due to increased core strength, which is what supports the spine and the back.

Thanks for the response. The Barefoot Runners Society is a great resource.

 

[Barefoot TJ]

I think my back is better

I think my back is better because my muscles are stronger. When I ran in shoes, my back would hurt a lot of the time. Now, I can go much longer before having to shift while sleeping or just sitting even.

I think allowing our children to be barefoot from birth as much as possible will help them tremendously in life, especially as they age. I allow my kids to go barefoot all the time. They love to run around barefoot in the backyard, and my 8 year old loves to run with me, and has begged me to let him take his shoes off too.

Have you thought about joining the BRS San Francisco Chapter? Barefoot Terry is the Chapter President. He and others in that club can point you to some good barefoot running places. You can also check the Races & Trails Review tab/link at the top. I'm not sure if it contains the routes you are interested in, but as you learn about some, please feel free to add your barefoot-friendliness ratings to them for others as well.

Glad you're here.

 

[Jennifer Gwirtz]

I think my back is better

I think my back is better because my muscles are stronger. When I ran in shoes, my back would hurt a lot of the time. Now, I can go much longer before having to shift while sleeping or just sitting even.

Sorry, not to belabor the point...The "core" is actually a set of muscles that include the deep ones in the back, but the power comes from the whole midsection - specifically the pelvic floor muscles below, transverse abdominus and obliques around the midsection and towards the front, multifidi along the spine. There are a whole bunch of other muscles as well through the trunk, but they do all work together. If the back muscles worked alone you'd definitely have pain! There's also fascia, but that's another conversation...

Thanks for the information on the SF Chapter. I'm joining now!

 

[Jennifer Gwirtz]

Also, my 4.5 year old enjoys

Also, my 4.5 year old enjoys bare feet, as well. I completely agree with you about kids and shoes! We don't have a back yard, but there are some great local playgrounds with clean surfaces that are great for bare feet. She also likes to go running with me, although she peters out very quickly, and I don't push her. Does your 8-year-old keep up with you?

Glad to be here.

 

[sloutre]

Hi Jennifer,I don't know how

Hi Jennifer,

I don't know how barefoot running compares to shod running since I started barefoot and have no experience with shoes. But I can tell that when I'm running I feel my core engaged and most other muscles (arms, legs, etc) relaxed.

I don't know if I should do other core exercice to improve my running or if just running is my core exercice. With cross training I'm always afraid to get my muscles out of balance and mess up my running but I guess I cannot go wrong with core.

 

[Abide]

My experience with running

My experience with running barefoot is you use more of your abdominals and back muscles to keep you body straight and to maintain a good lean (albeit slight) from your ankles. When I was shod my glutes were utilized much more to keep balanced and my abdominals much less. I also had a horrible bend at my waist. I basically was a mess.

 

[Barefoot TJ]

Yes, that's what I said, my

Yes, that's what I said, my muscles are stronger now.

 

[Barefoot TJ]

My 8 year old outruns me, 

My 8 year old outruns me, he's always ahead of me having to slow down and wait for me to catch up. He's mega fast.

 

[Jennifer Gwirtz]

sloutre: It all depends on

sloutre: It all depends on whether or not you still have pain when you run. If something doesn't feel right then there's some problem-solving to be done, and it's also nice to see so many BF runners are so in tune with themselves.

Abide: Ow...a waist bend while running! That hurts just thinking about it! I did the opposite. When I was the slowest kid on track I was rigid though the torso, had no glutes, sore ITBs, painful knees, ankles and back. Ow again. I'm glad you took your shoes off!

Barefoot TJ: Sorry - I misunderstood. Yes, all the muscles! I dare say BFR is good for other systems of the body, too. I'm very curious to know if someone out there ever does a study on bone density and shod vs. barefoot running.

The best core work is very gentle, and often lying on your back. One of the reasons I suggest it is that if it's done right it never hurts, only helps, and it complements running well. It should feel good, never strained. Yoga works for many people, Gyrokinesis or Pilates...anything that works deep abs and twists.

Speaking of which...

I'm curious - Does anyone out there notice whether they feel more comfortable twisting while walking or running without shoes, than when they wear shoes to either walk or run? For me that's been the one of the big discoveries. I was in the middle of a run and realized that I had been moving around like a box with legs for most of my life. I suddenly found that the rebound from the ground and the slight lean forward gave me just the right momentum to release one side of my body forward at a time. Then my pace picked up, my breath came easier, and everything felt wonderful. Seems obvious, and maybe it is to everyone else, but that was my big revelation. /sites/all/modules/smileys/packs/Roving/glasses.png

Thanks, everyone, for jumping into this thread.

 

[Jennifer Gwirtz]

Barefoot TJ: Have fun keeping

Barefoot TJ: Have fun keeping up with your kid...I guess I have that to look forward to! Not a bad thing, I suppose. How far does your 8-year-old run?

 

[stomper]

Jennifer,For the

Jennifer,

For the relationship of "twist" to running, you might want to check out the ideal "chirunning" form. It involves a tai-chi like rotation between the hips and torso. In tai chi the hips are often held steady while the torso above twists. In chirunning the torso is steadier while the hips rotate. (My interpretation only).

More generally, one of the ideas that you're putting forward is that it might be difficult to regain strength in certain areas if you've been in shoes or inactive for too long. I think that might be true in the sense of pure athletic performance. I was largely inactive in my teens and twenties and know I'm never going to get back to the sheer potential I had then.

However, IMHO there is a GIANT factor that can make up for it: improved perception and skill. After doing various martial arts, especially grappling, and barefoot running, my body is much more aware of what's going on in any situation, and it can react far better than it did when I was 18, without a lot of conscious thought from me.

Do you remember that scene from "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon" where the policewoman is having tea with the young noblewoman, a teacup drops off the table and without thought the noblewoman catches it? For a martial artist, that catch immediately throws the young noblewoman into a new light. It means she's very sensitive to fast movements. It's a perfect example of what a trained, sensitive body can do.

While I don't look as good on film as Ziyi Zhang, I catch teacups all the time. For example recently I did a switch from trail running to pavement running to practice for a 15K race. After coming home sore from pavement, I knew I had to do something differently. Within a few more runs I had adapted. Back when I was 18 I never would have had the sensitivity and awareness to find my "pavement form." Also recently I was rewiring my attic, which necessitated a lot of crawling and odd postures. It would have been torture back when I was 18 and trying to blast through everything. But after using my body in lots of different ways, it was not that hard to find a way to work comfortably.

I think anything that challenges the body to feel and react is a really positive thing for people anywhere. I especially like grappling because, while it exercises the core (generally defined), it encourages you to relax and use your whole body as a sensor of balance and pressure, not just your eyes or hands. But if one isn't up for that, going barefoot, in what seem like "impossible" conditions, is good too.

 

[Barefoot TJ]

He runs a good 5K distance,

He runs a good 5K distance, when he wants to. He's a sprinter mostly.

 

[kim]

Since "supportive" shoes

Since "supportive" shoes became the norm our core strength has gone steadily downhill along with our posture and feet.

Hi Jennifer,

What comes to mind is not just supportive shoes, but also desk jobs, improved TVs and computers. . . Our bodies respond to our environment and work, and technology is a big part of that. Even on MUNI, so many people are curled over their Kindles, iPods, iPhones, etc.



Also, I tried on a corset recently and it was fascinating. So much support provided by the garment, I didn't need to use my muscles to support my upper body at all. You can kinda rest in it. I can only imagine the lack of core strength women had back in the days of regular corsetry

Good luck with your project!

Also, there's a barefoot conditioning program called Sole Training that I teach. I'd be happy to meet with you and show you, and talk feet, if you're interested! If you think it's something your studio and clients would like, I could also teach a workshop.

 

[Barefoot TJ]

I've seen those images of

I've seen those images of women who lived "back in the day" wearing corsets all the time (images of them in and out of the corset), and I've seen an image of a skeleton of one of these women. It's quite horrifying. Very similar to the images of Chinese Foot Bindings. What is wrong with us?

 

[Jennifer Gwirtz]

@Kim I'd love to get together

@Kim I'd love to get together to talk feet and other possibilities. I'll message you...

@Barefoot TJ and Kim - Oh, corsets...don't even get me started. I still remember this picture of a woman in the Guinness Book from when I was a kid in the 70s. She had an 18" waist which resulted from life-long corseting and the breaking of her lower ribs in the process. Ick.

 

[Barefoot TJ]

I think I saw that same

I think I saw that same picture!

 

[khyricat]

Don't get me started on

Don't get me started on corsetting.. but on the other hand, I do find that even better than the yoga and pilates I've done for years on and off, switching to BFR has made a difference in my core muscle strength... it does help me feel better as well..

I'll be honest- I don't do a lot of pilates, more yoga, but I have had back issues due to desk job and large bust for years.. and core exercises from pilates and yoga have both helped tremendously over the years, but running has made even a bigger difference in my comfort level...