16 miles as your longest run for a marathon?

[saypay45]

This is an article from the January 2011 Runners World chronicaling the Hanson brothers' method of marathon training.

http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-238-244--13791-1-1X2X3X4X5-6,00.html



The short of it is that traditional marathon programs emphasize rest and a lack of "junk mileage" punctuated by several long runs at a distance that is just enough to put you within reach of 26.2 without getting you injured (the magic 20 miler). The Hanson method emphasizes a ton of what would normally be considered mid-distance junk mileage and speed work, and nothing else. The longest run on the program is 16 miles.

It seems, instead of getting your mileage in and then resting to feel "fresh" for the next long run, the point is to get used to feeling like crap so that when you feel like crap during a marathon you know how to handle it. This reminds me of the "run through it" method that was used prior to all the modern marathon methods like Higdon.

Aaaaaaaaanyway, I'm intrigued because in training for my last two marathons, I've actually felt better during my training program where I did a ton of junk miles (i.e. my first marathon) than during the one where followed a more traditional program (i.e. my last marathon). I also felt worse after tapering, then running the race than I did when I just finished doing a 50+ mile week, and then capped it off with a gigantic long run. I end up almost bonking waaaaay before 20 miles (try mile 13), and struggling for half of the race. When I do my long run at the end of a high mileage week, I feel awesome throughout the long run, and finish strong.

Anyone have any opinions about a program like this? For my next race, I'm thinking about trying an approach like this and not really tapering much, if at all.

 

[Abide]

It is intriguing give it a

It is intriguing give it a go. I'm doing my "mostly crossfit with some running"plan now. I'll let you know how that works. But this sounds similar except you just run more.

 

[saypay45]

From what I've been reading

From what I've been reading over on the marathon forum on RW, the basic premise of this Hanson plan seems legit. They recommend more miles though for it to really be successful, in the 65-70 mpw range. I don't know if I have time for something like that unless I start pulling 2 runs a day. 50 mpw is what I usually run right before a marathon, with the same result: a bonk at mile 20.

I've heard that a marathon is possible on the "mostly Crossfit" plan, if such a thing exists. My friend Chris does Crossfit 7 days a week, with no running beyond what is prescribed in a WOD. He recently finished his first half marathon in 1:40, which considering they never run more than a 10K is very impressive. I think a marathon would be possible, but difficult on the plan, just because 26 miles is very, very, very long. I think you need the time on your feet to be used to such a long distance.

But I guess we'll see. Chris is running a marathon with me in June.

 

[Danjo]

Personally the way I would

Personally the way I would approach a marathon would to work up to running farther than that distance, maybe up to like a 30 mile run. Then I figure the 26.2 miles wouldn't seem that hard, since I'd run further than that during my training. However it would probably take a really long time to build up to a 30, and it wouldn't probably make your marathon time very fast. Also I've never trained for any race over a 5k, so I guess I'm not really an authority on the subject. However I do hope to get up to a 30 miler before my Iron Man, so I can be used to the exhaustion.

The other method would probably work too. I mean over-training a race is a great way to make a long distance to seem short, but at some point you can't really train over it. I mean I doubt ultra-runners are going out for 100 mile plus training runs. So not having run the full distance before it is obviously still possible to run the race.

 

[GeorgesRun]

The idea behind training to

The idea behind training to run when you're tired (instead of tapering to avoid being tired) seems like it could work, with one huge warning. For those who haven't been running for long, or who haven't ever done long distances before, it could be a great way to overtrain and/or get injured. You sort of have to know your body's limits to use this kind of program. Probably not a problem for you, since you've been running and running BF for a while now, and you just did a marathon, so I'm guessing you know your abilities/limits pretty well.

 

[Mike]

When I was training for my

When I was training for my half marathons I would just get up to a 6 mile run on tuesday, a 3 mile run on thursday and a 10 mile run on saturday. I did all my training early in the morning, so I never ran in hotter than 60. (usually low 50's) And I would always bonk before mile 10... Partially due to under training, and partly due to never training for the 85 degree heat on race day. uzzled:

 

[Last Place Jason]

Here's my formula for success

Here's my formula for success (loosely defined):

• Run when you feel like it,
• Rest when you don't,
• If it stops being fun, that's a good warning you're overtraining,
• Variety is a good thing whether it be speed work, long runs, or hill work,
• Crosstrainking (CF is good for this) can replace a lot of miles, but anything over 20 is better to experience on occasion. I'm a fan of overtraining for anything up to 50 miles.

 

[Jimmy Hart]

 the Hanson plan is a

the Hanson plan is a perfectly sound and good training program if you can handle it. they did not put this thing together and use it on "average joes". it was done on and is still being worked on with professionals so the recreational runner has to make sure they are up to it and can follow the plan pretty strictly. the reason plans like higdon and galloway are good is that they give you mileage and rest in a way that you recover well enough to not injure yourself and also allow for you to miss runs here and there along the way without it affecting your overall performance.

saypay i don't think switching to hanson will help you avoid the 20 mile bonk you're having in your marathons. if your legs and schedule are up to it say there is nothing wrong with following their plan but know that when it does ache in an awkward way you need to back off the plan some and let yourself recover, otherwise you're asking to not be able to run your race.

my advice to avoid the bonk would be to adjust your pre and in race nutrition to cover your loss of carbs and maybe even fluids. breakdowns happen for a reason and those are usually the biggest two. the other big one is a lack of muscular endurance which can be built up by adjusting your strength training or maybe just putting some in your plan. build up the muscle's ability to store energy and use it better and you wont run into the 20 mile wall.

 

[saypay45]

I agree Jimmy, my bonk is

I agree Jimmy, my bonk is usually related to something other than training. At Grandmas it was nutrition. At Honolulu it was the heat. I'm not looking at following Hanson to the letter. I'd probably stick to something similar to Galloway because I like the flexibility. But the concept of putting in more middistance miles per week is something I want to explore.