Stretching..Who Does and Who Doesn't?

[Barefoot Dama]

I think a big thing that has barely been touched on, and only superficially, is your lifestyle and how that may affect your need to stretch. For me, if I stay on my feet all day and move around my legs loosen up naturally on their own and I don't really have to stretch or roll my legs much, BUT, mostly I am very sedentary (I sit a lot) and my legs tighten up horribly bad while sitting so I have to do the stretching and rolling otherwise I develop injuries from the legs being tight. I haven't seen too many people say what their lives are like and whether or not they stretch or roll, but Gentile is a perfect example as he says he is on his feet a lot throughout the day and all he does is hose his legs down. I would be really curious to see who's pretty sedentary (sitting a lot) and who is active in relationship to if they feel the need to stretch or roll out their muscles due to tightness issues.

Good observation Nick, Iwas going to mention that very exact thing about sitting or not and somehow it skipped my mind. I don't seat much at all simply because my bad back won't let me but I have to agree that after a run if I seat for whatever reason(such a meeting) my legs especially my lower legs tend to get a little tight. So that's something to think about Noonie.

 

[Sid]

I sit a lot, but I found that how I sleep can make a difference. I am primarily a belly/side sleeper. I read that belly sleepers could put a pillow under their belly to reduce tension on their backs. After doing so for a week, I found that my hip flexors were tight, so goodbye belly pillow!

 

[Barefoot Dama]

I sit a lot, but I found that how I sleep can make a difference. I am primarily a belly/side sleeper. I read that belly sleepers could put a pillow under their belly to reduce tension on their backs. After doing so for a week, I found that my hip flexors were tight, so goodbye belly pillow!

Interesting, it's the opposite for me I am a side sleeper and sleep with a firm pillow between my legs because if I don't my hips and back will kill me within an hr or two. Not joking.

 

[NickW]

This where I got the idea about hosing down the legs after a run. I saw this short film a few years ago, and Jack Foster inspired me. I love this film, but if you want to jump to part which I am talking about forward to 10:21.
http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/on-the-run-1979.

I've seen this video before. I love the end where he is running down the hill. Man one slip and he would eat it pretty bad. I've run down stuff like that when I was a kid. Reckless abandon fueled by adrenaline. Now a days you couldn't pay me to do that.

 

[Bare Lee]

I think a big thing that has barely been touched on, and only superficially, is your lifestyle and how that may affect your need to stretch. For me, if I stay on my feet all day and move around my legs loosen up naturally on their own and I don't really have to stretch or roll my legs much, BUT, mostly I am very sedentary (I sit a lot) and my legs tighten up horribly bad while sitting so I have to do the stretching and rolling otherwise I develop injuries from the legs being tight. I haven't seen too many people say what their lives are like and whether or not they stretch or roll, but Gentile is a perfect example as he says he is on his feet a lot throughout the day and all he does is hose his legs down. I would be really curious to see who's pretty sedentary (sitting a lot) and who is active in relationship to if they feel the need to stretch or roll out their muscles due to tightness issues.

For me, when I do yard work or some kind of house project, or have to move stuff, is when I most need to stretch out my upper body/lower back. Like I said above, I don't normally do anything special stretching-wise for my upper body or back when I'm doing weights or running. Just stretching out my hammies, with a variety of stretches (palms to floor, spread-eagled toe-touching, one foot up high on a wall or rail, the splits, etc.), seems to take of my back. I never get back aches or pull a muscle.

When I'm good and limber, I can sit for hours at a time in full work-obsession, no problem, and I sleep like a baby and wake up good-to-go.

I have noticed that walking or riding a bike helps with recovery from a run. Although if I biked or hiked a lot, it would probably entail more stretching. I stopped to stretch all the time on my bicycle travels and while doing long-distance hiking. Never suffered from any over-use injuries, or anything like that.

This where I got the idea about hosing down the legs after a run. I saw this short film a few years ago, and Jack Foster inspired me. I love this film, but if you want to jump to part which I am talking about forward to 10:21.
http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/on-the-run-1979.

That's where I got the idea a few weeks ago after my longest run ever. Really seemed to help. Cool that you find it effective too. I'll have to start doing it more often.

 

[Barefoot Gentile]

Good point Nick! When I wake up in the morning, it's like the tin man without oil, creaky and stiff Constant moving all day I guess my body doesn't have time to stiffen up.

 

[NickW]

Good point Nick! When I wake up in the morning, it's like the tin man without oil, creaky and stiff Constant moving all day I guess my body doesn't have time to stiffen up.

Sometimes I have those. Not very often, but sometimes.

 

[Spinningwoman]

That's where I got the idea a few weeks ago after my longest run ever. Really seemed to help. Cool that you find it effective too. I'll have to start doing it more often.

Nice film!

 

[ChasingShadows]

I admit I've skimmed, so apologies if this has already been said. I do do a tiny bit of post run stretching (I touch the ground with my fingertips & then move down into a squat - yup, that's it), but when do I mainly stretch? Well, when I feel I need it. I'll happily go days without, but yesterday my hamstrings were tight, so I was stretching them in the ladies by putting a foot on the top of the cistern, I'm feeling a little stiff now, so I'll stretch before bed, in whatever way I feel I need. And yes, I could do with doing a little more than I do, but is this not just another thing where we need to listen to our bodies better?

 

[Sid]

I typically need to stretch more when taking on a new activity. When losing weight, my lower back and traps needed work. When starting barefoot running, my lower legs were particularly tight. When starting swimming, I had to work on my shoulder and neck flexibility. Right now, I'm finding the need to do side stretches for swimming. Once, I've gotten the kinks worked out, I usually don't need to continue working on that particular body part any more. It's an interesting transition from being a couch potato (which was exacerbated by running shoes magnifying my particular assymetries).

 

[Noonie]

I still want to note, that you need to do what works for you. Not everybody is the same, me for instance, I cannot stretch prior to a run in the normal sense of the word, I have pulled more muscles trying to stretch cold muscles than I can even remember. Others like Dutchie swear by stretching and that is awesome too, as it works for him.

I believe you need to experiment to find that 'Aaahaaaa' Moment.

In the spirit of searching for my Aaahaaaa moment I decided to try an ice bath right after a run (or ride). I tried this after yesterday's ride and today's run. It felt good so I'll continue to try this. I also have a milk and banana and read something while sitting there...so a nice experience.

Before an activity I will continue with some body loosening techniques and at any time of day I will feel my muscles for any tightness and will stretch/roll those only as needed.

Hopefully this works!

 

[Wayne Whiting]

I owned a medical transcription service for 25 years. Some days I would sit for 12 hours, others only 5-6 hours. As stated above, I never stretch.

Bare Lee states that "a subset of BF runners don't stretch." I wouldn't limit this to BF runners. A much larger subset of runners don't stretch.

A PT may want to chime in here as I have been out of sports medicine for 15 years, but you technically don't have "tight" muscles. We have tendons, ligaments and muscles. Tendons and ligaments are connective tissues. If you stretch a ligament, you are in serious trouble. If you stretch or tear the anterior cruciate ligament as a football player, you are probably going to be out of action for a while depending on the damage.

Stretching is used exhaustively in rehabilitation medicine to restore the range of motion to the affected structure. For example, if you are trying to increase the ROM of the gastrocnemius (calf) muscle, you are stretching the tendons from the origin of the muscle (the femur) to the insertion of the muscle at the calcaneus (heel bone).

Perhaps a better question to ask on the need to stretch is whether or not you have an abnormal ROM in the extremity. Can you bend over and touch your toes with your fingertips? I think that is a normal ROM for your hamstrings. Can you bend over and grab your insteps with your fingers? Probably not important unless you are a ballet dancer.

If you think your ROM is abnormal for any muscle group, get an opinion from a medical professional.

 

[Bare Lee]

I owned a medical transcription service for 25 years. Some days I would sit for 12 hours, others only 5-6 hours. As stated above, I never stretch.

It still amazes me that there are people like you who never feel an urge to put your arms up, touch your toes, or squat for a good stretch. Very counter-intuitive for me. As an anthropologist, I always find such a divergence of experience fascinating.

Bare Lee states that "a subset of BF runners don't stretch." I wouldn't limit this to BF runners. A much larger subset of runners don't stretch.

Are you saying a greater percentage of shod runners don't stretch than barefoot runners? That doesn't jibe with my sense of things, but I'm pretty isolated. When I'm out on popular jogging paths, I see most runners doing some kind of stretching before heading out for their run. I had never heard of the anti-stretching thing until I started tuning into the barefoot community a few years ago. This was also the first time I heard of the Paleo diet, MovNat, and a bunch of other recent health & fitness trends that seem to be part and parcel of barefoot running. Before this though, I was in Mozambique for six and half years, so I was kind of out of it generally. It took me a while to catch up on a lot of recent developments, like YouTube, blogs, smoothies, and perpetual war. And before that, I hadn't paid much attention to health and fitness stuff. I mostly relied on discussions with fellow gym rats at the university gym. So my sense of the relative trendiness of these things is probably skewed. Still, the group of friends I was referring to are all pretty mainstream, yet health-conscious, middle-aged Americans. So I doubt their reaction was atypical. As a side note, I was somewhat gratified that they remembered me as being a barefoot freak way back in college.

Anyway, I know I do have an unusually wide ROM, especially for a middle-aged guy. But whenever I'm out and about, I see so many people who can barely walked, are slouched over, or just generally seem stiff and hamstrung (!) in their movements, some of them still in their 20s or 30s, and I thank the stars I've avoided that fate.

I guess stretching is kind of like barefoot running for me, in that it allows me to be mentally lazy. Just as barefoot running takes care of a lot of form issues without having to think about it, stretching takes care of a lot of maintenance/postural/movement issues without having to think about. Same with free weights I guess. Just lift heavy and everything else tends to fall into place--no need for supersets, complicated protocols, plank stuff, unstable platforms, or whathaveyou. Or diet, just eat whole, unprocessed foods as much as possible. Call it the lazy man's approach to health and fitness.

 

[Wayne Whiting]

Are you saying a greater percentage of shod runners don't stretch than barefoot runners?

Hi Lee. No, I'm not really saying that. Only that there are a lot more shod runners who don't stretch because there are so many more shod runners. I don't have any numbers when comparing direct percentages from shod to unshod runners who don't stretch. Not sure anybody does since we are such a small group!

And I do get the urge to throw my arms over my head once in a while. Kind of like my dog who stretches when getting up from a nap. If you are an anthropologist, what examples of stretching do you see in the animal kingdom that mimics what we humans do? I used to have a German Short-Haired Pointer who would run 85 miles a week. I was doing 75, so I added another 10 miles for her for all the times she had to come back and wait for me. I never saw her stretch!?

When I first started running back in 1975, I did a wall stretch for my calves, put my leg up on the counter and touched my nose to my kneecap, grabbed my instep and pulled my heel to my butt, another wall stretch with a small contortion to stretch the soleus muscle, another weird stretch I can remember to stretch the IT band, lay on the floor and swing my legs over my head and back to the floor to stretch the lower back. Geez, now I just use the time to drink an extra beer.

 

[Bare Lee]

Hi Lee. No, I'm not really saying that. Only that there are a lot more shod runners who don't stretch because there are so many more shod runners. I don't have any numbers when comparing direct percentages from shod to unshod runners who don't stretch. Not sure anybody does since we are such a small group!

And I do get the urge to throw my arms over my head once in a while. Kind of like my dog who stretches when getting up from a nap. If you are an anthropologist, what examples of stretching do you see in the animal kingdom that mimics what we humans do? I used to have a German Short-Haired Pointer who would run 85 miles a week. I was doing 75, so I added another 10 miles for her for all the times she had to come back and wait for me. I never saw her stretch!?

When I first started running back in 1975, I did a wall stretch for my calves, put my leg up on the counter and touched my nose to my kneecap, grabbed my instep and pulled my heel to my butt, another wall stretch with a small contortion to stretch the soleus muscle, another weird stretch I can remember to stretch the IT band, lay on the floor and swing my legs over my head and back to the floor to stretch the lower back. Geez, now I just use the time to drink an extra beer.

In absolute numbers, it would make sense of course, if there were more shoddies who don't stretch than BRers, but in percentage terms, my sense is that there's a big difference, for all the reasons I stated above, and that would explain why my college friends were a bit mystified by the greater anti-stretching bias found among barefoot runners. As mainstream, health-conscious folks who exercise and eat kale and all that, they might not have ever heard of barefoot running if it weren't for me. So they're out of our loop, and they hadn't heard about not-stretching as a recent trend. That was my point--the apparent link between the anti-stretching trend and the barefoot running trend.

For the record, it's zoologists who study non-human animals, although there's a lot of overlap with anthropologists in primatology. But as any layman knows, animals and office workers stretch all the time
Animals, at least wild ones, are also a lot more active than we are, have a lot less conscious control over their bodies than we do, and don't often get to enjoy the mixed blessing that is old age. So comparing us with other animal species is probably specious. They aren't capable of learning stuff like throwing baseballs, typewriting, or ballet. It's kind of like the whole mindless Paleo thing comparing our lifestyle to 'our ancestors,' when a brief survey of modern hunter gatherers would reveal a wide variety of dietary adaptations. There simply is no single 'Paleo' diet. Still, it was good to hear that you too stretch after all. Like I said, my imagination isn't good enough to imagine a world in which no one stretches, at all, ever. Hence the importance of defining terms in this discussion, as several of us have noted.

Even in African villages, folks stretch a bit, but not much, although they're better at getting up off the ground than most Westerners. By the time they're middle-aged, they too have begun to stiffen up, and begin to experience all the attendant health problems that go with that, although my favorite interview subject was an amazingly spry guy in his mid-80s.

As for attaining the kind of nose-to-knees flexibility you practiced in the 70s, I agree it's probably useless for running, but it certainly feels great generally to be that limber. And I do occasionally see shod runners who are a lot faster than me but seem stiff. Although most really accomplished runners seem pretty fluid, I agree.

So what have we concluded? Broadly defined, probably everyone stretches, but you don't need gymnastics-level stretchiness for running. What really seems at issue is how much each of us needs to stretch in order to enjoy general health and remain injury-free. The range of responses here has been very broad, minimal to maximal. Still, when I hear someone feels stiff in the morning, or gets back or head aches, or that their hip flexors or something are out-of-whack, or that they're experiencing a weird pain in the ankle or somewhere, I can't help but wonder if a little ancient wisdom from the yogis, a.k.a. stretching, might not help.

 

[DNEchris]

I think I'd taken stretching, in this context, to mean a ritual of pre-run/exercise range of motion movements such as the one described by Wayne a couple of posts up - this I do not do and have never willingly done.

Stretching in terms of an arm/back extension, especially after 2 or 3 hours sitting at a desk, I suspect I do subconsciously several times a week - generally accompanied by a big yawn!

Rather than spending a few minutes, that I don't have, indulging in a stretching ritual I find that things work out just fine if I just take off, at a relatively slow pace and gradually let my body get into the flow of things. I don't feel the need to cool down either - I just hop in the shower immediately after finishing a run.
However, when I first started running higher weekly distances I certainly felt the need to stretch, in the shower, after many runs (quads mostly) but for the last 3 years stretches involving any part of my legs are few, and very far, between.

On another note I see a fair number of runners assembling into small groups, typically having come off a subway, and would doubt that 5% of them spend any time limbering up before heading off on their runs.

 

[Bare Lee]

However, when I first started running higher weekly distances I certainly felt the need to stretch, in the shower, after many runs (quads mostly) but for the last 3 years stretches involving any part of my legs are few, and very far, between.

That certainly is true for me too: any increase in mileage or now, with my attempt at daily running instead of 3x per w, involves more stretching (and massaging) than usual, until the adaptation is complete. These days, more than six months out from a period of frequent repetitive stress issues, foam rolling for my upper leg is almost non-existent, and a very brief roll of my lower leg muscles with my stick is all that's required most of the time before I set out for a run. My pre-run stretching routine as well is very brief and light, so if we limit the discussion to "Pre-run stretching.. Who Does and Who Doesn't?" the gap in our perceptions/experience probably narrows a lot, although 5% for shod runners seems pretty low, and I don't think Wayne's extreme 70s routine is very typical (as far back as I can remember, I've always been told to go easy when stretching cold muscles), based on my casual observations. For me, stretching is really key after a run, and in between runs. In fact, I got my leg up on my windowsill as I type this . . .

 

[Spinningwoman]

You only have to Google 'stretching or no stretching' to find that it is obviously a very disputed topic in all sorts of different athletic disciplines. The Daily Mail even had an article on it, though I didn't read it to see whether stretching causes cancer or cures it<g>. (For those outside the UK, the Daily Mail is famous for articles claiming that things do one or the other or sometimes both - see Youtube! I don't think it is anything specific to barefooters, except that perhaps when you have discovered that the traditional 'wisdom' is not as wise as you thought it was in one area, you may be more inclined to wonder about other areas.

 

[Bare Lee]

I was saying, based on a limited, non-random sample size (my college friends) that the no-stretching trend doesn't seem to have made it to the mainstream. Take that observation for what it is: impressionistic evidence. That the controversy rages in certain athletic circles is clear. Still, it also my impression that most pros continue to stretch.

I completely agree that barefoot runners are probably more likely to question received wisdom. One of the points I was trying to make is that they are often equally likely to jump on other recent trends (myself included--I now eat a 'paleo' breakfast of mixed nuts with dried fruits, and OJ, instead cold cereal, almond milk, fruit and OJ--although I don't yet run in a kilt). BFR sometimes seems like part of a package deal that has recruited newly minted wisdom on many fronts. I have nothing against that per se, but several people have noted that they came under the sway of the anti-stretching campaign, and suffered negative consequences for it. And therein lies my beef: Selling a debatable conclusion as god's truth, or projecting personal experience as a universal.

I'm not anti-anti-stretching or anything like that. Seems like everyone has agreed you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[flammee]

After running/training stretching feels good, maybe it feels good because it is good? There's this recommendation that you should stretch a couple of hours after training, which usually makes people not to stretch at all, because at that point you have no urge to stretch and it doesn't feel good. I have no idea why this recommendation exists.. Normal people (not sport enthusiasts) that stretch do it immediately after training, not hours later. I have never been interested to stretch before exercise, except for dynamic stretching that increase ROM pretty fast. And also feels kinda good.