OK, now I'm really confused. At the end of the last cycle, you did 2x5x140, right? That's five pounds heavier than my 5RM. Now for this cycle you're starting at 115 and ending at 137.5? Seems like you're starting way too light, but ending lower than your current capabilities. I can understand your desire to go easy so that you don't get interference with your other pursuits, and I kinda get the wave concept (but not really), but I don't see how you're going to progress this way.
I don't mean to belabor this, and please don't feel any need to explain further, but it seems that if you can already do 2x5x140, then you wouldn't want to go much lower than 10 kgs for an 'easy' training weight.
Hey don't worry about it I like talking these things through.
My ideas changed a little bit when we started talking about the rep ranges and the issues with fatigue. I went back and read a few things from Jim Wendler, Dan John and a couple of other authors. Wendler does something similar wit using 90% of your max and then lifting from 75-90% of that. I feel like my calculation is a little more precise.
Anyway the idea is to wave up the intensity so you get to the heavy lifts but gradually and then reset and work back up. Its kind of the 2 steps forward one step back. I think this concept will fit a little better while running as I can add some long efforts and hit the lifts whenever I want and not get interference.
The 2 x 5 x 140 was pretty much my max at a 5 rep set, so 143kg is probably an accurate representation of 100% for the 5RM. If I want to logically progress I shouldn't be hitting this regularly if I am going with the logic of working in the 80% range? Here are a few quotes.
Jim Wendler:
Starting Light
While it may seem counterintuitive to take weight off the bar when the goal is to add weight to it, starting lighter allows you more room to progress forward. This is a very hard pill to swallow for most lifters. They want to start heavy and they want to start now. This is nothing more than ego, and nothing will destroy a lifter faster, or for longer, than ego.
You aren't just picking a weight to lift five times or three times or one time per set. You're using a specific percentage of your one-rep max. And not your full 1RM. The calculations are based on 90% of it.
So if your 1RM in the bench press is 315 pounds, you use 285 (90%) as the base number for your training-weight calculations.
Dan John:
1. Never miss a rep!
2. Follow the “Rule of Ten” for the appropriate lifts for an advanced lifter; if Patterning needs to be done, do it as often and as much as necessary; and, use the rules of 15-25 for the appropriate half body lifts.
So that's my reasoning? In a nutshell. The main goal is to walk in the gym get a good workout in as regularly as I can with minimal interference.
I thought a little about the PL comp, I'm not sure I can get to that level while working on a 100 miler? Although that would be really cool to get both in a year. Let me think about it a little more. My biggest worry is getting a 315 squat.
Thanks for taking the time to explain a bit more. I like talking these things through too, especially with someone like you who's at more or less the same level and has similar goals.
The 'wave' is an interesting, if counterintuitive concept, and it's not clear why it would work to deload so much, but I actually ended up doing something like this when I had to start all over again with both the Squat and Deadlift while rehabbing my right knee and hamstring in Cycle II. I seem to have come back stronger, despite a month or more of lifting light. Of course, I have no idea of where I'd be if I had been going strong the whole cycle, so it's hard to say, but at least now I have some sense for how it might work.
In any case, I'm not going to argue with Wendler or DJ, but others seem to get results with simpler schemes. I like some of the stuff I've been reading in Thibaudeau's articles. He seems to endorse ramping things up towards the end of a eight-week cycle too, but its more of a step than a wave pattern. I could maybe implement my 1/3/5 scheme towards the end of this cycle for a week or two before testing my 1RM. So that would be something of a cyclical wave. I dunno. Since my knee and hamstring strain, I do place a lot more emphasis on avoiding overtraining, whereas previously, it was never an issue, so I'm all for gradual, longterm results.
But I'm not training for an ultra. In fact, running has taken a back seat to lifting lately. Just running mediocre fartleks 3-6 miles, three times a week seems like it's enough right now. I especially like how fartleks kinda parallel the pacing of an ST workout, with periods of greater effort followed by easing up. Maybe I'll become a convert to interval training? And the walking breaks really seem to help me recover faster. I don't feel nearly as tight the next day.
I'm really enjoying the idea of getting stronger on some of these basic lifts despite, or because of, starting to feel the effects of age. I guess it's just a new challenge, same as running long was last year. Eventually it would be nice just to do maintenance workouts, once I get to a certain level, like the 1000-pound combo or something, and then any gains after that would be frosting on the cake, nothing that I would pursue.
In any case, you're helping me convince myself that I have to program some kind of easy-hard alternation, besides the usual autoregulation. I'm liking the idea of making Monday and Friday basic and heavy, and then make Wednesday 20-30 pounds lighter with a bunch of assistance stuff tacked on afterwards. Maybe I'll try that this week and see how it feels. I think for me, minimally, I have to do each of the six lifts with decent intensity at least once a week. Two might work, but three times is probably asking for trouble.
I'll probably shoot for the 1000-pound combo, now that I'm allowing myself to work harder on the bench press, and I'll probably only test singles on those three powerlifter lifts. Overhead press is too hard for me to do as a single. Even in five-rep set, the first rep is often the hardest. Once I can do pullups again, I'll set rep goals for those, but probably not weight goals. All the row variationss have too much room for cheating to mean much as a single, except maybe the inverted row . . .
So I guess it's strength training with something of a powerlifting emphasis, minus the powerlifting silliness. Feel free to join me in the push to 1000 whenever you feel like it, or when the ultra is out of the way. Doing an hundred miles and a thousand pounds has a nice ring to it though. Maybe you could set up a new, extreme sort of pump-n-run. Lift 1000 pounds combined in the three big lifts, then run a 100-mile ultra marathon right afterwards. The "Milli-hundo"?
Anyway, we're starting out at close to the same place on the deadlift quintuples, so it will be interesting to compare notes at the end of the cycle, having used two different approaches.
I think you'll find that once you get more comfortable with your squat, the numbers will start to go up more quickly. It's really hard to approach the bar if the lift still doesn't feel comfortable. It's a big leap of faith to put a good deal of weight on one's back and then let gravity work it's magic, counting on one's technique and strength to reverse directions and bring it back up.
My low-bar squat is starting to feel pretty automatic, but it's taken many months to get there, and I'm still not 100%, more like 95%, confident in my technique choices. I seem to attain good depth pretty automatically these days, and my knees don't seem to have any tendency to buckle anymore, even when I'm not thinking about it. And when I get a nice narrow grip, the bar on my back feels super stable, which gives me a lot of confidence too. I tried a high bar squat the other day, while warming up, and it just feels so unstable. You really have to use your arms. Whereas with low-bar squats, all the focus is on the legs, because it's almost impossible for the bar to move.