Optimal strength training for runners

[Bare Lee]

Lee I'm genuinely curious why you think ratios would be different based on total volumes?

I'm also confused about the 80-10-10 or 80/20 as other articles have summarized if your total mileage was 50 then 40 miles would be done at a slow pace and 10 miles would be done anaerobically? On a workout level that could mean you could be doing speedwork 2-3 days out of 5 potentially. not many speed days would last 5 miles, maybe a tempo run? If you are talking 30 miles a week then 6 miles would be speed work. I was looking at it more from if you run 10 times in two weeks 2 workouts would be speedwork.

Well, my sense is that there's a limit to how much tempo and interval work you can do, due to recovery times. Of course, elites need less recovery time than recreationalists like us, but I would think there's probably an upper limit of 20-35 miles per week or so even for those cats. After that, runs must necessarily be purely aerobic, low intensity ones for which recovery time is minimal. That's probably why Ryan Hall is running fewer miles per week now that he's including more 'quality' running (tempo or interval work). He needs more recovery time. At least that's my guess. I don't know if he actually said that in the interval I read.

This probably why the MAF method gets good results for people who tend to overtrain.

For the 80-20 ratio, I think the 20 includes both tempo and sprints/hills. I tend to think of those as two different components, as do most of the pro-style sites I've seen. If you run 50 miles a week and 10 of those are non-aerobic, I would think only 1-3 miles would be anaerobic (sprints/hills) and the rest some kind of tempo running, which might include intervals of 800 meters or a mile, or a straight 5-6 miles at tempo pace. Like I mention, I read some Kenyans train up to 35 miles per week at tempo pace. So only 50-70 miles per week are aerobic, which for those guys, is probably like going for a leisurely stroll.

So I guess it depends on what you mean by speedwork. If you include tempo running, then I think two out of 10 runs over two weeks sounds reasonable. The (idealized) routine I'm trying to implement this spring is:
Su
am: one-mile run-commute, aerobic or fartlek.
pm: one-mile run-commute, aerobic or fartlek.
M:
am: 3.1 aerobic run
pm: one-mile run-commute, aerobic or fartlek.
Tu
am: 3-5 miles tempo run
pm: one-mile run-commute, aerobic or fartlek.
W
am: 3.1 aerobic run
pm: one-mile run-commute, aerobic or fartlek.
Th
am: 3.1 hills or intervals
pm: one-mile run-commute, aerobic or fartlek.
F
am: 3.1 aerobic run.
pm: one-mile run-commute, aerobic or fartlek.
Sa
am: long run, 5-15 miles

Most run-commutes will be aerobic, but once in a while I might run faster for a couple of blocks, or sprint up a small hill.

So, all together, if I run 30-35 miles per week, 6-8 miles will be either tempo, hills or some kind of interval, the rest will be aerobic. Basically this is the three-runs-per-week schedule I had up until summer last year, with a tempo run, hills/intervals, and a weekend long run, only its been supplemented with a bunch of low intensity, shorter runs to get my weekly mileage up and also to get me on a everyday, early morning schedule. The long run distance will be determined by how much energy I have at the end of the week, and is also premised on not needing a lot of recovery time, as I don't want it to interfere with my ability to run everyday. So, conceivably, I could just run five miles as my long run.

Today is my third consecutive day of running 3.1 miles first thing in the morning, and I feel really great. I think having an unwavering routine is the way to go for me. If it turns out I end up running long less often, so be it.

At least this is the plan for the next month or two. After that, I'll decide whether or not to keep at it, modify it, or try something else.

I agree I just consider my sprints/hill sprints and mountain bike riding plyo's, and farmers walks conditioning.

On a serious note I think the workout mix is important and somehow easily desiging and documenting will be beneficial. Especially something that can be a little more flexible with life. I was thinking about breaking up a plan into pieces but instead of using points use blocks and to say you have a capacity for 100 blocks a month. Each block would obviously vary by person it could be a max lift 6 sprints etc... but the max monthly blocks would be 100. Then visually you could plot 3 measurable goals on the various axis and try to balance these out by workout choices. The interesting thing is you have 4 weeks so you would see results but could make minor tweaks each cycle to get closer to the goal. Eventually with enough cycles you would have a pretty good idea of what things work and which don't.

I might try something out. I think one of the problems I have is there is so much extra curricular stuff I do in addition to the workouts. Maybe tracking it all and compensating for it would give me a better idea of the good and bad.

Yah, that's the same idea with a different accounting method. I tend to think on a weekly basis. I don't have any monthly plans or training cycles. Within each week there's room for adjustment, both intra and inter workout. During my chest and arms workout, for example, I may emphasize the bench, do less arms, and skip the dips. Or between components, this week, for example, I'm trying to bring the plyo and daily running up to speed, so I'm not pushing the st that much, although I've had a good deadlift and chest & arms session anyway. In another week, I may push the plyo hard and ease up on the running. The overall goal is to have all components going pretty well, but it's going to take a while to get there.

I also think having some flexibility built in is key to consistency. Although I try to make the daily running non-negotiable. That's why I like the early morning running so much, because it's almost impossible for anything to interfere with that.

For the ST, by breaking it down into six, shorter blocks, I can make up for one session if I miss it by either pushing the whole schedule over a day, or by combining it with another one. Yesterday I wasn't able to do my Mid-Back workout, so I'll do it today, and then tomorrow I'll probably combine my squats with my cable stuff, and push the shoulder stuff to Saturday, or do just the squats on Friday and do both the cable and the shoulder stuff on Saturday. For me, the real key is spacing out the deadlifts and squats, everything else can be moved around.

Still trying to find a good way to make the plyo and stretching/yoga more consistent. For the plyo, the question is whether to do a little bit every day, as a 5-10 minute work break, or have it be two full sessions per week, each session 30 minutes or more.

For the stretching/yoga, I'm think the best thing would be to do 10-15 minutes of it right after my morning run, and then another few quick stretchs during the day.

 

[Abide]

I'm not sure about your work place or environment but I actually have recently brought a yoga mat and a quick change of clothes and during my lunch (about 30 mins) I close the door and shut the lights off and will run through an ashtanga cycle. I keep it pretty low key with slow breaths so I don't sweat. Its a great break in the day and I am trying to get it up to 3-4 times a week which is the most yoga I have ever done.

Another thing I have done is shortly after your wake up everyday do 10 sun salutations. I'll try to find a you tube of the full movements. But its a great way to get in 5-10 minutes of flexibility work and quite refreshing.

 

[Abide]

Nothing wrong with a 5k a day, after my long run in a couple of weeks I may stick with something similar once my long run in a couple weeks is over.

It must have to do with the recovery issue. I've read in a number of places low heart rate runs are very effective for recovery so they could easily be added as recovery and volume training.

Mornings are by far the best training time for me as well. Lunches are a close second but I am not at a place where I can do much other than walk or yoga.

 

[Bare Lee]

Nothing wrong with a 5k a day, after my long run in a couple of weeks I may stick with something similar once my long run in a couple weeks is over.

It must have to do with the recovery issue. I've read in a number of places low heart rate runs are very effective for recovery so they could easily be added as recovery and volume training.

Mornings are by far the best training time for me as well. Lunches are a close second but I am not at a place where I can do much other than walk or yoga.

Yah, I think I get more benefit, especially in terms of mood, concentration, and sound sleep, from daily running than from running long once in a while. Still, I love the feeling that you get on a long run of going on a little adventure or journey, and the chance to see urban geography from a different perspective. So hopefully I'll be able to run long once every week or two, and run 5k every morning. I have allowed for Sunday's running, the run following the long run, to just be two one-mile run commutes, for recovery. The one-mile runs in the afternoon don't really do much for me I think, fitness-wise, but it's faster than walking home, and keeps the legs from stiffening up, and gets me warmed up for my st session once I'm home. They might function as recovery runs too, but I doubt the morning 5k runs really require too much recovery.

I think my ideal schedule would be to do the ST mid-morning, several hours after the morning run, and if there were a gym close by, maybe I would. Still, lifting at the end of the day, just before I go to pick up the kids, is a nice way to end the work day too. The running and lifting kinda bookend the workday, after which comes family time.

I'd be interested in any yoga info you have. I don't know of any other yogis who share similar ideas about running and lifting. A lot of my friends in Chicago were into it, but more of the spiritual dimension. Since I'll be doing it alone, I'll be approaching it more as a fitness activity, although something might be said for meditating right after my run and then doing the yoga. My older brother meditates and says he benefits a lot from it. I've only meditated in karate, after each practice, and I usually found myself just thinking about how nice it would be to get off my beat-up shins as soon as the meditation was over. Have you heard of the book "Anatomy of Yoga"? I'd be interested in getting your thoughts on it if you have. I like they way they define spiritual as breath, animation, vitality in the physical, as opposed to mystical.

My office is my own. I even have all my plyo and hyperbench here, instead of with my weights in my garage. So meditating or doing box jumps is fine, especially when I first get in and noone's around. What kind of yoga mat do you recommend. Are those 24"-wide ones wide enough? Can you do yoga on a carpeted floor just as well?

Hey, unrelatedly, what kinds of rows do you do?

 

[Abide]

I do a poor version of this

If you watch the first 10 minutes you will see the sun salutations I was talking about. You essentially do the same thing every time and adjust it by how you feel that day. I do that one because it was what was offered at the local gym back in the US but I enjoyed the concept of knowing each vinyasa or whatever they call them.

Yeah you can do it with or without a mat. Sometimes the seated poses are more comfortable with a mat so a plain old 24" X 72" mat is perfect. Blocks can be useful too like this if you are unflexible.

I am the least spiritual person ever, I find it all that stuff very awkward. The only time I like to be alone with no distractions is at the pub with a delicious IPA.

 

[Abide]

At the gym I would do various grip pull downs and either dumbell rows over a bench or chest supported rows on a cable machine.

Now that I don't have machines available I have been doing pendalay rows and snatched grip high pulls. I have a set of rings so once my squat rack gets delivered I will mix in some body weight rows with elevated feet and pull ups and probably ditch the pendalay rows. I will also add in some single arm landmine rows to replace the dumbell rows and use the sleeve so it's a fat grip.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Abide]

I'm gonna go check out that book on my Kindle though.

 

[Bare Lee]

Thanks, those videos help. I only watched the first 10 minutes, will try to watch more tomorrow. I could use the sun salutations as my base, and then work some of my karate stretches into it. Will try it when I get in after tomorrow morning's run.

I was asking about rows because I don't feel like I'm attacking them enough. But you do pretty much what I do. I use the lat blaster for the pendalay rows instead of a straight barbell, then dumbbell rows on my bench, then renegade rows. I tried inverted rows, but they felt awkward. Maybe I wasn't doing them right. Anyway, I'm improving, but never get the same satisfaction from my rows as I do from the other main exercises. Maybe it's just a tough area to attack. I should probably move my seated rows from my upper-back day, which is mostly pulldowns, to my row day. Maybe that would give me a good pump as a finisher after doing the other three kinds of rows. Gotta get away from thinking all the cable stuff has to be on the same day.

 

[Abide]

Not sure what kind of weights you are doing now, but maybe try increasing the weight and lower the reps and treat it as a main excercise. I'm talking weight that would match a similar countering excercise. If you are pressing 135 for 5 reps then load your pull down to 135 for 5. If you can bench 225 for 5 then try doing pendlays for the same. It works for dumbells too although I can do much more for dumbell rows than I can do on the DB bench. But basically if you are not feeling it drop the variety and really focus on the weight. Just make sure you set your shoulders first to prevent any shoudler issues.

 

[Bare Lee]

Not sure what kind of weights you are doing now, but maybe try increasing the weight and lower the reps and treat it as a main excercise. I'm talking weight that would match a similar countering excercise. If you are pressing 135 for 5 reps then load your pull down to 135 for 5. If you can bench 225 for 5 then try doing pendlays for the same. It works for dumbells too although I can do much more for dumbell rows than I can do on the DB bench. But basically if you are not feeling it drop the variety and really focus on the weight. Just make sure you set your shoulders first to prevent any shoudler issues.

Thanks, that's a good tip. The problem with pendlay rows is that if I do weight past a certain point, it's easy for my form to get off and jerk it a bit. At 150 lbs, my form is really good, and I can do 5-8 reps, but at 200 I can only do one or two with decent form, then I start jerking it. Still, by your formula, that's not too far off where it should be, cuz my bench is currently at 225 x 1 or 2 reps. Also, yesterday I did the seated rows at the end, and that helped get a better pump. I guess the distributed nature of the muscles worked during rows prevents me from getting the same sort of pump as I get from other big lifts that work a more limited or concentrated set of muscles. It would probably help if I moved my pikes and hyperextensions back into my mid-back workout too, but for the time being I'm keeping them in my plyo/mobility workout and so will try to do them twice a week, as I think it's really beneficial to work that hinge as much as possible.

Anyway, in the end, it doesn't matter, I just want a strong back. Also, like you say, I can do more weight bentover dumbbell rows --currently 80lbs x 5-8 reps--than bench flies, which are between 50-60 lbs. I guess it's just in the nature of things that the countering exercises aren't an exact mirror image, since our bodies are asymmetric front to back.

One thing I noticed, is that the pendlay rows feel a lot better with the lat blaster grip and the swivel platform for the bar. I think the movement is more of an arc this way, whereas bentover rows with a barbell forces more of a perpendicular movement.

OK, here's the new coffee compromise: one regular cup mid-morning (8-9 am), then one shot of espresso after lunch. I tried this yesterday, and it worked pretty well. I think when I was doing a shot of espresso first thing in the morning, it set me up for craving more at the first sign of drowsiness. But going the first 3-5 hours of wakefulness without caffeine, when my body's naturally spiked because of my morning run, seems to diminish caffeine's addictive quality. Also, having a regular cup instead of an espresso at first seems to diminish the drug-like boost. My body continues to feel at ease, and my mind is relaxed. If I had an active worklife, like being a park ranger or belly dancer or something, then I don't think I'd need caffeine at all, but desk work kind of demands it.

 

[Abide]

Thats a good compromise. Out of all the performance enhancing supplements caffiene is the only one I have actually every felt an impact. I drink a lot more here than back home though, americanos with drip coffe instead of water and 2 shots of espresso etc...

Also for the rows you might consider wraps too if you are noticing your grip is what is causing you to fail for some. It's another one of those focus on the back arguments.

I will never encourage you to use grips for the DL though I promise.

 

[Bare Lee]

Thats a good compromise. Out of all the performance enhancing supplements caffiene is the only one I have actually every felt an impact. I drink a lot more here than back home though, americanos with drip coffe instead of water and 2 shots of espresso etc...

Also for the rows you might consider wraps too if you are noticing your grip is what is causing you to fail for some. It's another one of those focus on the back arguments.

I will never encourage you to use grips for the DL though I promise.

Yah, the secret is to control the dosage. Two cups of regular coffee or two shots of espresso is about my limit, then it starts to affect me adversely. Kind of like beer or wine.

Yah, it's not the grip, it's my form. But yesterday I stayed at 150lbs and did more sets of 5-8 reps. I just read up on the difference between bentover rows and pendlay rows (http://www.livestrong.com/article/542694-the-differences-between-pendlay-rows-barbell-rows/). I was aping your use of 'pendlay' without understanding it. Next time I'll probably try 200 lbs pendlay style, treat it more like a single rep movement and allow it to return to the floor. Then I won't have to worry about the jerking motion, because it's part of the exercise. Then do the traditional bentover rows in a more controlled manner, with lower weight and higher reps like I did yesterday, not allowing the bar to return to the floor, just to the length of the arm extended.

That's always my favorite solution--just redefine the problem!

 

[Abide]

Yeah I intermix the two as well. I just call any row from the floor thats not chest supported a pendlay row and returning to the floor is optional in my opinion. I'm not really a big fan of these due to the large lower back component so if you do them on a upper day they tax your lower back too much, especially if you are doing squats or deadlifts the next. I much prefer single/dual arm chest supported rows because of this. Or even horizantal body weight rows with straps or rings and added weight if necessary.

 

[Bare Lee]

Yeah I intermix the two as well. I just call any row from the floor thats not chest supported a pendlay row and returning to the floor is optional in my opinion. I'm not really a big fan of these due to the large lower back component so if you do them on a upper day they tax your lower back too much, especially if you are doing squats or deadlifts the next. I much prefer single/dual arm chest supported rows because of this. Or even horizantal body weight rows with straps or rings and added weight if necessary.

Yah, with the bentover/pendlay rows, I arch my back and bend my knees quite a bit to take pressure off the lower back. It's also why I feel more comfortable with lower weight and higher reps. I'm all about staying injury-free. I also do my good mornings and deadlifts with slightly bent knees, although the knees are much less bent than with the bentover rows.

I don't like chest supported rows though, although I haven't tried them for a while. I'm also grateful for your tip that dumbbell rows don't have to describe an outward arc. They're a lot easier to do going straight up and down, plus I can do more weight so I get a better pump.

Why are you drinking more coffee over there? Is it the culture? I first got hooked on espresso-like coffee while in France on my bicycle travels. Before that, I never liked coffee that much.

 

[Abide]

Yeah culture and I enjoy it too. The coffee at work tastes better than what I had in the US, so less tea now and more coffee. I'll probably start drinking more green tea eventually. Probably should try to lose some weight as well. I've got a long list of should be's.

 

[Bare Lee]

This morning while procrastinating I came across this site: http://stronglifts.com/

He endorses an ultra simple workout plan, based on three lifts per workout, 5x5, three times per week.

I think Abide talked about a 5 x 5 program a while ago. And we've both been talking about adopting fairly simple approaches lately.

So this got me to thinking about further modifying my recent, more minimalist approach. I've been getting such good results by throwing out more of the secondary exercises and concentrating on the big lifts. So why not go even further? This would give me an excuse to get rid of exercises that always feel like a chore to fit in, like pullovers, or lateral raises.

I'm not going to follow the whole 5x5 formula very strictly, maybe not at all. I'm also not going to worry about how often I'm able to add weight, since I'm already at an intermediate or close-to-intermediate level already (Stronglifts suggests adding 5-10 pounds every time you do a lift). But I like the idea of keeping things as simple and heavy as possible. However, there are a few secondary exercises it would be hard for me to do without, like dips and curls.

Recently, as my big lifts have been improving, I've been questioning the everyday weekday lifting. As I lift heavier, I feel like I need more time to recover. So getting back to a three-day-er-week schedule might be the way to go. Plus, unlike running, it's just hard motivating to lift everyday. And if I do this just three times a week, conceivably I'll have more time for plyo/mobility and/or yoga/stretching. Or perhaps I can run a bit farther on the non-st days. (The neverending quest to find the right mix)

So I came up with an four-week routine based on the basic idea of Stronglifts, uploaded.

The biggest modification, perhaps, is not doing squats for every workout, as stronglifts stipulates. Rather, I'm alternating them with deadlifts. Doing Squats three times a week and Deadlifts twice just seems crazy.

The big difference with my current routine then is that I'll be doing these lifts three times a week instead of two, either Squat-DL-Squat or DL-Squat-DL. Based on how I've been feeling, I think I can handle that. I'll also probably do three different kinds of rows, like I have been doing: Bentover Row BB & DB, and Seated Rows with a Cable.

Anyway, with a few other alternating exercises, like pulldowns and power cleans, landmines, and biceps curls and rope pushdowns, it works out to a four-week schedule once all the rotations are factored in. I would prefer a one-week schedule, or a two-week schedule max, to keep things clear, so we'll see how it goes. I may just end up adding in the secondary exercises by feel rather in strict rotation.

So anyway, I'll try this for a week or two (I think). If it feels like too much, I'll go back to my current routine, which has been getting good results anyway.

Edit: OK, I read up a bit more over lunch. I guess the 5x5 program is a 'straight set' program, and is pretty common, as is StrongLift's choice and scheduling of main lifts. It all goes back to Ahnold's mentor Reg Park apparently.

I also found out that what I've been describing as my pyramid approach is actually a reverse pyramid, with the regular pyramid serving as warm up at low reps going up. I also like peaking at a max weight allowing for just a rep or two, so that's another bastardization of the pyramid concept. I had always thought pyramiding meant going up and down in weight, when in fact it means going up in weight and down in reps. I guess this terminological confusion is what happens when you mostly workout alone.

Anyway, I think I'll stick with my warm-up-to-max-weight-then-reduce-weight-at-three-to-five-reps-incremently approach for all the heavy lifts. Let's call it the Warmup-Max-Reduce Method, or the W-U-T-M-W-T-R-W-A-T-T-F-R-I for short, or WMR for long.

In the end, I can't believe it really matters, but after working to get a decent 1rep max, I don't really want to do 80-90 percent of that for fives sets so that I can complete five reps each time.

Thoughts?

 

[Abide]

I'm not going to follow the whole 5x5 formula very strictly, maybe not at all. I'm also not going to worry about how often I'm able to add weight, since I'm already at an intermediate or close-to-intermediate level already (Stronglifts suggests adding 5-10 pounds every time you do a lift). But I like the idea of keeping things as simple and heavy as possible. However, there are a few secondary exercises it would be hard for me to do without, like dips and curls.

Edit: OK, I read up a bit more over lunch. I guess the 5x5 program is a 'straight set' program, and is pretty common, as is StrongLift's choice and scheduling of main lifts. It all goes back to Ahnold's mentor Reg Park apparently.

Thoughts?

Yeah stronglifts is just kind of a rehashed starting strength routine. He has some intermediate programs in there as well but as you indicated its a beginners program. Imagine starting squats or deadlift at 75lbs, you would make improvements for months and months. Eventually you would peak and wouldn't be able to maintain the increases however. I'm not a big fan personally, although it's easy to follow and you do get in some good reps if you don't have a lot of practice. I don't like one set of 5 for the deadlift, and reps of 5 isn't always the optimum number for everyone. I think 25 reps is too much when you start hitting heavier weights. It's boring and there is very little flexibility or else your not following the plan, whatever that means. So at your level I might advise to model a plan that allows for more lifting by feel (RPE) or slower increases.

I still haven't decided on a plan yet either and its starting to bother me. I am reading the book Easy Strength to get some ideas but I swear that book flip flops all over the place. However I have come away with a lot of good things from it. Mainly with the concepts of defining your goals and working as little as possible to meet those goals. I tend to think that doing more is better but as I get older this seems to be a good way to either get hurt or stay mediocre at everything? So maybe defining a few specific goals for the end of the year would be good for after the race later this month.

400lb. deadlift
10 x 225lb. bench Press
21 minute 5k

I think I am also going to quit the long distance running for a while too. Its really hard to justify the time right now plus I don't really like feeling like an old man getting out of bed. I like feeling springy. Also the general wellness is important to maintain as well - yoga/flexibility, hill sprinting, etc...

So I wonder how I get there?

 

[Abide]

I like that plan its simple but give you a lot of quality lifts. What specific sets/reps your were looking at? Doing your pyramids for the first 3 of each day?

Another interesting concept that book has made me think about, and has some similarities with the running piece, is spending more time lifting in the <80% range. That there really isn't areason to lift in the higher ranges if lifting isn't your sport? Its a thought especially if you are focusing on another aspect such as running.

I do like the concept of RPE, reading more about shaf's laddering is that you let the performance tell you when to increase. So if you hit 3 x 1/2/3 at a weight with an RPE of 7 out of 10 then you increase the weight then next workout. But combining some ideas from the book you would also stop the workout even if you are having a great one instead of beating yourself down and forcing a longer recovery time. Here is the original article published.

http://danjohn.net/pdfs/vaug.pdf

Lots of different ways to get where you want to go? For us maybe we need to think more holistically, work/family/running etc...

 

[Abide]

Yeah the way I understand pyramiding is roughly

10 reps @ 50%
8 reps @ 65%
5 reps @ 75%
3 reps @ 80%
2 reps @ 90%
etc..

Thats also how a lot of people just warm-up/ work-up to a lift. Do what works the best for you though it doesn't really matter.

Some people do drop sets after they hit their 1 rep workout goal, they would dop down and do 3 x 5 @ 80% to get extra reps in. The belief is there is benefit from the higher neuro muscular activation to add some volume after a peak lift?

 

[Bare Lee]

Yeah stronglifts is just kind of a rehashed starting strength routine. He has some intermediate programs in there as well but as you indicated its a beginners program. Imagine starting squats or deadlift at 75lbs, you would make improvements for months and months. Eventually you would peak and wouldn't be able to maintain the increases however. I'm not a big fan personally, although it's easy to follow and you do get in some good reps if you don't have a lot of practice. I don't like one set of 5 for the deadlift, and reps of 5 isn't always the optimum number for everyone. I think 25 reps is too much when you start hitting heavier weights. It's boring and there is very little flexibility or else your not following the plan, whatever that means. So at your level I might advise to model a plan that allows for more lifting by feel (RPE) or slower increases.

Thanks for the feedback and confirmation.

I guess basically what I do, and have been doing pretty much since I started lifting 30 years ago (with lots of stops and starts since) is drop sets, but with normal intervals of recovery time in between each set.

So, for example, my current max bench is 225 x 2. I start at 75lbs and do a couple of sets of 6-10 reps to make sure my shoulder joint is good and warmed up. When I was younger, I would just do one set, but as I age, I need to spend more time making sure everything's good to go. Then I go up to 125 for a few reps. If everything feels good, I go up to 175 for a few reps. If everything still feels good, I go up to my max bench and do a few sets of that. However, if at any increment going up I feel a little shaky or stiff, I stay at that increment for another set or two until everything checks out. If I get to 175 and my left shoulder just doesn't feel right, then I abandon the bench press for the day. Most days I'm able to get up to my max bench no problem, so after a couple of sets of that, I then reduce by about 20 pounds and do 3-5 reps. I do however many sets I can, usually 2-3. Then I reduce another 20-30 pounds and do 3-5 reps of that for a few sets. That's usually it, but sometimes I reduce further for higher reps, and other times I come down from the max in smaller, 10-pound increments and stay in the low 1-3 rep range.

I think I get the most benefit after the max lift, doing the 3-5 rep sets. I guess that's the neuromuscular activation in volume perk as you say.

There's no schedule for when I need to add weight. My rate of improvement determines that. When my max weight gets up in the 3-5 rep range, I increase the weight so that it's back in the 1-2 rep range.

That's my basic MO for the bench, deadlift, and squat. For the rows and presses, I tend to only need one or two sets of reduced weight for the warm-up, then 2-3 sets of max weight, and then once in a while I'll reduce weight for more sets. But my preference is to do a different kind of row or press instead of drop sets for these less intense exercises, like dumbbell rows and seated rows and dumbbell presses. For the pull downs I only warm up on the initial one, then I like to do 2-3 sets of each kind of grip--neutral, pronated, supinated--changing the weights a little for each grip--supinated gets 160, neutral gets 140, and pronated wide grip gets 120. I do 5-8 reps of those.

So basically it's all RPE. That's the way I've always done it, and it seems to work for me. I think I would do that for running too, if I were to run on a track, but when you run routes, you kind of have to have a good idea about how far you're going, although most of my routes have variations or bail-outs available without having to stop and turn around.

The last few days on my runs I've begun pushing the pace a bit. I like it, and so I think I'll stick to shorter, 3-5 mile fartlek or RPE running. I know I'll get back to long runs, but I don't know when exactly. I would really like to be able to run aerobically in the 8-9 mm range, and am willing to cut back on the mileage to make it happen. Still, I think long runs are an important component of running fitness, but instead of 10-15 miles, maybe I'll make my weekly long run more like 7-9 miles for a while. Like you say, I don't really like feeling stiff. Last fall I only needed 12-24 hours for recover after a 10-13 mile long run, but with a 7-9 mile run there's almost no recovery necessary. I like that. I think every day I like to feel a little sore, but not stiff. That's a good RPE indication that you're doing the right amount of running/st/plyo, no?

So I guess the thing I'm taking away from Stronglifts is the inspiration to really go as minimal as possible. Something we've both been thinking about for a while, you probably longer.

So this week I'm thinking of this:

Sun: 3 miles (done)
M: 2 miles, back squat/bench/rows/dips/landmine
Tu: 4 miles, plyo mobility
W: 2 miles, dl/bb press/pulldowns/db press/loaded carry
Th: 4 miles, plyo mobility
F: 2 miles, front squat/rows/bench/flies/curls/rope pushdown
S: 5-7 miles

This the first week of the uploaded pdf in my last comment. I'll try to follow through on the other three weeks outlined there, to complete a four-week cycle.

Eventually, I would run 4 miles on MWF too, and run 5-6 miles on TuTh, and then bring the long run up to 7-9 miles. I would also integrate more tempo/hills/intervals at some point. But I think it's a good rule to only push one fitness component at a time, so for the next several weeks I'll be finding my way with the new st routine. It's pretty heavy duty, and I'd still like to keep it under an hour each workout.

The plyo mobility I'll try to do at the end of the afternoon too, just like the st, but probably only 20-30 minutes of that.

So that just leaves the yoga/stretching component. Probably after the morning run. But for this week anyway, I'm not going to worry about it. I've already got a full plate seeing if I can really squat twice a week with deadlifts in between.

As far as specific goals, I guess for the time being mine are getting all the lifts up to ExRx's "intermediate" standard, getting the aerobic pace down to 9mm or less, and losing at least 20 pounds. The last goal I'm not too worried about. The weight's already coming off now that I'm running more consistently again.