Lifting Feet/"Bicycle" Motion?

[Mad Matt]

Hey all!

While running I move my feet more like pendulums than in a wheel or circular shape. For the most part it hasn't been a problem, but I have scraped up my big toe pretty badly on one outting and have scraped most of the toes on the same foot (for some reason it's only on my left foot? Go figure...). I never even noticed the pendulum thing until a friend pointed it out.

I understand that the best running form for me is the one I am comfortable with, but that aside there are better ways to run and worse ways to run. It seems generally accepted to lift/peel/kick your feet behind you and move in that circular motion. When I attempt this I feel very jerky and inefficient. I'm sick of messing up my toes and getting time off because of it (part of this problem is how dry my feet are, so I've worked on using some vaseline or aloe to keep them tough and strong but not composed of giant pieces of dead skin waiting to fall off), and was wondering if anybody had a good mental trick or analogy for the running?

I read somewhere to imagine you are in a pedal boat, which makes sense except for the fact that I've never been in one!

 

[mokaman]

Sometimes I get a feeling like i'm pedaling a unicycle...little circles under the center of gravity. You may want to check your cadence... if its low you could try to very very gradually speed it up.

 

[barefootandagile]

Matt,

This is the motion I perform as I run:

, and this is what it looks like while running:

,

 

[JosephTree]

Matt, This might be a phase of your development as a BF runner. I remember feeling like my feet were almost dragging and I also performed a couple (or few) spectacular toe stubs, some of which resulted in land dives that were no doubt very amusing to any onlookers. Cadence and consciousness of form are going to help. I started doing 100Ups and the modified versions of the same to improve my leg motion, and I think they've helped. Also look at the BF form excercises that Dr. Mark Cucuzella included at the end of his beautiful battlefield video. Maybe BFandAgile can find the video and link it (a skill beyond my technical ability.)

 

[Mad Matt]

Wow, thanks guys for thoughtful, helpful, and speedy replies! I just got back from a run, my first totally barefoot after getting over the fear of ripping apart my toe again. I counted my cadence a couple of times and it went from ~150 to ~170, any more than that and I feel like I'm losing control (makes me think of jump roping and letting the rope get too far ahead of me before it snaps into my toes and I shriek). I've honestly never even attempted doing the 100Ups, chock it up to impatience or over confidence that I don't need to do them. But those are the fundamentals, I have to remind myself that they are like practicing punch repetitions back when I was kickboxing. Boring, yes, but necessary to be great and have a solid foundation.

Thanks again for replies, and I am more than eager to see any more you guys might have My next goal is to find a good pair of tiny but effective footwear for dealing with the scalding streets and sidewalks in my new home in Phoenix!

Edit: I'm glad I'm not the only one who fell, JosephTree. I had a ridiculous stumble and collapse when wearing my VFFs at the end of a brutal 10 mile run. I checked my watch and the next thing I know I'm skidding on concrete. Thank goodness for the break in traffic so there were fewer people who saw me!

 

[NickW]

Here's a link for Dr Marks video that I like. It has some exercises that might help you, starts around the 2 minute mark I think. I have been doing them lately with my toddler after my runs as we stop at the park. I may be the odd weirdo there but it sure seems to be helping a lot. Dr Mark is very fluid and has a style I really try to emulate.

Also, BarefootAndAgile, I noticed on the treadmill video your right foot seems to land and be flatter on the ground than your left. Basically I mean your left heel barely if at all touches the ground while your right touches down more. Didn't know if maybe one foot got more tired than the other for you, but if so that may be why. I also know it could be part of being on a treadmill as it's not natural so... I happen to have this same problem as I have more flexion in my right ankle than in my left. Something I really have to pay attention to while I'm running and that only bothers me while running up hills.

 

[mykroberts]

It should be really hard to stub/scrape a toe (unless you are on extremely uneven ground). If you are bending your knees your foot is moving BACKWARDS (relative to your body) not forward as it hits the ground. You really need to bend the knees - even if you aren't winded you should stop your BF runs when your legs get tired and you can't run with proper form anymore. It will trash your feet if you swing them.

 

[JosephTree]

Yup. I was on a trail, but the stubs were results of my lack of focus and sub-optimal form. A hard way to learn not to zone out whilst trail running!

 

[Haselsmasher]

For me the mental model of pedaling a bike works well. I know my feet aren't actually moving in a circle - but I used to do a good amount of road biking (still do to a certain extent) and a biking cadence of 100-110 RPM in deeply ingrained in my brain. I don't go nearly that fast (200-220 bpm) when running - but I do 180 and I can link together in my brain that part that knows what spinning feels like and how my feet are moving when running.

There are various mental models that work for people depending on how your brain works. Another one I've heard is imagine your inside ankle bone is roller on a garage door, and the opposite leg is the track the roller runs in. So when you pull the foot (per Agile's vids) that ankle runs up the track of the leg that is on support.

Jim

 

[barefootn]

It should be really hard to stub/scrape a toe (unless you are on extremely uneven ground). If you are bending your knees your foot is moving BACKWARDS (relative to your body) not forward as it hits the ground. You really need to bend the knees - even if you aren't winded you should stop your BF runs when your legs get tired and you can't run with proper form anymore. It will trash your feet if you swing them.

I too sometimes stub my toe (mortons) usually when running slowly and not paying attention.
If you look at Barefootandagile treadmill video. When he is running slowly try to pause the motion while one leg is halfway into recovery notice that the toes are down and very close to the belt. I am not being critical, it's just that when running slowly we don't need to lift our feet that high. What has happened to me ocasionally is that the tip of my toe will catch something while the foot is moving ahead in relation to the ground. This will pull the foot down and can cause the toe to be pulled back, it can be quite painful. It can be caused by something as innocent as a clump of sod that seems to reach up when I least expect it. I like the idea of a pedaling action, I try to pay attention to keep my toes up.

 

[Barefoot Gentile]

Matt,

This is the motion I perform as I run:

, and this is what it looks like while running:

,

I knew your name looked familiar. I know you got banned at RW, but welcome here.

 

[Bare Lee]

What's up with RW banning people? I heard that happened to Chaser Williams too. I've only checked out RW a little, but definitely enjoy the more relaxed atmosphere I'm finding here at BRS since I started tuning in regularly a couple of months ago (the new site's improvements have made participation more enticing).
Hey Barefoot&Agile, that last video is good for showing form, but I would do it over again and keep the camera static, focused on your legs, and then lay your voice over it afterwards, cutting out the original sound, explaining what's going on. I like the way you show how form changes as you increase speed. I would also consider seriously putting yourself on the instructor's map. Maybe you could work a deal with BRS to have a menu tab devoted to video gait analysis.

 

[barefootandagile]

What's up with RW banning people? I heard that happened to Chaser Williams too. I've only checked out RW a little, but definitely enjoy the more relaxed atmosphere I'm finding here at BRS since I started tuning in regularly a couple of months ago (the new site's improvements have made participation more enticing).
Hey Barefoot&Agile, that last video is good for showing form, but I would do it over again and keep the camera static, focused on your legs, and then lay your voice over it afterwards, cutting out the original sound, explaining what's going on. I like the way you show how form changes as you increase speed. I would also consider seriously putting yourself on the instructor's map. Maybe you could work a deal with BRS to have a menu tab devoted to video gait analysis.

Thx, for the great ideas.

 

[flammee]

Hey all!

While running I move my feet more like pendulums than in a wheel or circular shape. For the most part it hasn't been a problem, but I have scraped up my big toe pretty badly on one outting and have scraped most of the toes on the same foot (for some reason it's only on my left foot? Go figure...). I never even noticed the pendulum thing until a friend pointed it out.

It could be your upper body's alignment, if you are leaning backwards your feet stay lower. Or you could try sprinting full speed as it will automatically give you more circular motion of feet.

 

[JosephTree]

Also, I've heard that holding your hands / arms a little higher somehow translates into higher feet.

 

[dutchie53]

Run uphill, you learn to pickup your feet pretty quick. The steeper the hill the better.

 

[JosephTree]

+1 hill training! Your body learns a lot from regular exposure to a good hill run.

 

[barefootn]

The toe dragging/stubbing thing has been a problem when I'm tired or just being lazy. I have tried the pedaling idea, and it does work, however I have modified it so that now when running slowly I just pretend to be stepping over a book. I find that requires even less energy.
I still do faster running, but have never had a toe dragging problem then.