Knee Tendonitis

JoshM813

JoshM813

Barefooters
Aug 24, 2011
53
9
8
#1
So, to give a little background I fractured my right ankle in mid-April and had to have surgery and went through therapy. Right now it is almost 100% some tendons are still healing but almost there. Well along with this I have flat feet which caused me to over pronante badly when I was still healing. Well while going to therapy I did TMTS whilee doing one-legged presses and it cause the tendon on the medial part of my knee to become inflamed from repetative stress while over pronating.

I took it easy for awhile but then I started a new job that requires me to stand over 7 hours a shift. Well it started becoming inflamed again so I cut back on my running until the pain wasn't an issue. Then a month or so later (about 2 weeks ago) I went out for a 2 mile barefoot run and felt fine other than some tightness in my right achilies. Next day I woke up and when I started walking I got a sharp pain in my knee. I've now been dealing with it but I can barely bend my knee without pain.

I've been doing RICE and been taking MSM and ibuprofen but it hasn't gotten much better. Anything else I could do that would help?

Thank You,
Josh
 
#2
Josh: Sorry to hear you are

Josh:



Sorry to hear you are in pain. I'm not a doctor, but after a serious injury, your body does a lot of "protective" things. Have you checked for trigger points in your quads? maybe you have, but if not - check for trigger points in the vastus lateralis and the other 3 quads about an inch above the knee. If you find some try rolling them out with a stick or rolling pin or just with your finger.. If this improves your knee pain, I would get a serious art or massage release.

I pray it is as simple as this!



Steph
 
#3
Josh, like many of these

Josh,



like many of these questions...really tough without examining your knee. the extreme pain just to bend it makes me concered about an injury in the knee joint itself.

i recommend almost all exercises to be in a functional position with your foot on the ground and balancing. wonder if the leg presses out your knee in a compromised position.



Dr. Mark
 
#4
Ok so the pain has gotten a

Ok so the pain has gotten a bit better but is still there and the knee just feels stiff and any sort of heavy load on it makes it go stiff and creates some pain then I walk with a limp till it seems to loosen up again. Pain is still there though in the morning and towards the end of my day and I still can not bend down on it at all.



I don't know exactly but it is very difficult to explain now.



Dr. Mark, the only injury I can think of is just that the tendon isn't just inflamed but also tore a little from the repetative stress from the pronation when my ankle was healing. I have not had any outside trauma to the knee.
 
#5
I'm gonna chime in here

I'm gonna chime in here because I see a lot of this stuff...Here's what I think of when I hear medial knee complaints:

You've got 3 muscles - your sartorius, gracilis, and semitendinosus (one of the hamstrings) that all insert into the medial lower part of your knee, actually on your tibia. The area is called your pes anserinus. It actually means goose foot because the muscles attach in such a fashion. These muscles all support the inside of the knee and when they aren't working well you can get pain where they insert at the pes anserinus, or you can get knee meniscus problems because the meniscus is now stressed out big-time because the muscles aren't working 100%, putting a lot of stain on the meniscus.

So what do you do...Ideally you find someone who can properly muscle test these muscles and see exactly where the problem lies but aside from that, you can check for tender spots along the length of the muscles, especially at their opposite ends. As I say with most injuries - stay OFF where you feel the injury - look elsewhere. You're only going to aggravate the problem if you go mashing on your tender tendons. So for the gracilis you run your hand up the inner thigh up to your groin, pressing in as you go along. For the sartorius that goes over your quads up to the front outside of your pelvis. For the hamstring that is obviously on the back of your leg up to your butt bone. (Check out their anatomy in a book on on-line.) Rub out any tender spots you find with deep pressure.

Theses muscles are all related to your adrenal glands, as are the muscles of the lower leg and foot. That's why too much stress - from a poor diet, training too much or too hard, emotional stress, surgery stress (big one), can and will stress out your adrenal hormones too much increasing cortisol levels, decreasing DHEA and testosterone, and causing blood sugar handling problems and bam - you've got a knee injury.

More knee info here >> http://sock-doc.com/2011/06/knee-pain/
 
#6
Wow! Thank you! A lot of

Wow! Thank you! A lot of informative info here. I had figured that the tendon issue was probably made worse by muscle imbalance from my ankle injury but no idea where to even look for it but you pretty much just explained it all. That link to your site was also very informative. One thing that shocked me is not even taking into account excess cortisol production from the adrenal glands. Guess I need to start eating healthier again as I slipped away from my diet about a month ago...and I also need to stop taking ibuprofen as well and just stick to the MSM whether it truly helps or not I don't know but I don't think it can hurt.



Again thank you and hopefully there will be improvement soon.
 
#7
Great. Yeah the more NSAIDs

Great. Yeah the more NSAIDs you take the more sulfur you deplete from your body. Sulfuation is the primarily liver pathway hormones, like cortisol, are detoxified. So the more you take, the worse your hormones will be, and the more sulfur you'll use to repair your tissues too. Sulfur is the 'S' in MSM.
 
#8
Is sulfa and sulfur the same

Is sulfa and sulfur the same thing? If not, can you please describe the difference?
 
#9
TJ, sulfur is an element,

TJ, sulfur is an element, while Sulfa is a class of antibiotics.

MSM is what is commonly added to Glucosamine Chondroitin suppliments for joint health, and as the Doc mentioned

methylsulfonylmethane is MSM.
 
#10
You know, I asked a doctor or

You know, I asked a doctor or physician assistant once, and they didn't have a clue. Seriously. I'm supposed to be alergic to sulfa. I took it a long time ago and had developed mouth sores. After that, I was told the next reaction could be anaphylactic.
 
#11
You can take MSM with no

You can take MSM with no problems even though you are allergic to sulfonamides.

No guarantee it will help anything, but so far it hasn't been shown to hurt.

Available pretty cheap too, I take Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM three times a day.

Maybe it helps, if not, no big deal. Big pill though!
 
#12
Im not entirely convinced on

Im not entirely convinced on the whole glucosamine/chondrotin thing. MSM I do believe in although I believe what it is derived from, DMSO or Dimethyl Sulfoxide. For those that don't know, DMSO is applied directly to the skin to alieve inflamation. My dad used it on me when my brother kicked me in the nose when we were kids...I developed a huge blood blister. He sterelized the area then applied DMSO...10 mins later the inflamation went away completely and all that was left was the redness. Now there is one negative side effect...for 1-2 days after using...you have a horrible olive like taste in your mouth (honestly since this time I have not been able to eat olives and that was 16 years ago).
 
#13
JoshM813 wrote:Im not

JoshM813 said:
Im not entirely convinced on the whole glucosamine/chondrotin thing. MSM I do believe in ........
Click to expand...



All three suppliments are cures/preventives that we must either believe in or not, because there is very little proof they help at all. I take the combo of all three divided into three doses per day religiously, and that's about the sole reason for it: "religous" -like faith in the products. The majority of studies show that they are of no help, with the exception of maybe interstitial cystitis (MSM,DMSO).

The DMSO Josh refers to is a very unique compound that does give an instant taste of garlic after it's rapid absorbtion following skin contact. Whether or not it's byproduct MSM helps by supplying sulfur that has been depleted is highly controversial, and has pretty much been hypothesised and promoted by one individual while debunked by many.

I'm like the typical user, my joints hurt and at the low cost. easy availabilty, and low risk of side effects of the combo I figure WTF, why not.

The same doc that recommended surgery on my arthritic first phalangial-metatartsal joints over five years ago assumed that I had already been trying the suppliments. Another doc that x-rayed my back also guessed the same. Two real docs with licenses to prescribe both "believing" in OTC suppliments was good enough for me, and I am still surgery free.

Need more anecdotes? My wife started taking it a year or so ago after having already undergone arthroscopic knee surgery, numerous cortisone injections, and synthetic rooster comb injectioins as well.

She swears by the suppliments combined with a switch to full time barefoot life.
 
#14
So you're saying ignore the

So you're saying ignore the studies, Board? This is good stuff? What brand and mg do you take per day?
 
#15
#16
It probably won't hurt, but

It probably won't hurt, but only has anecdotal evidence in it's favor.

Since it's just a crapshoot, I buy the cheap stuff from Puritan.com

"Double Stength " Joint Soother Glucosamine, Chondroitin & MSM.

Three tabs spaced out during the day give you the normally recomended 1500 mg. total Glucosamine for the day.

, along w/ 1700 mg of proprietary blend of MSM,chondroitin sulfate and other inactive ingrediants.

Diane takes all three in the morning, I prefer to possibly increase the effectiveness by spacing it.

Example of cost: 480 tabs X 5 (buy 2 get 3 free) for $149.98 = 2400 tabs = 6 1/4 cents each, or 18 3/4 cents a day.

You need 1095 tabs a year, so it's a little more than a years supply for two.

Kept in a temperature controlled environment and closed properly no prob.

http://www.puritan.com/glucosamine-chondroitin-045/double-strength-glucosamine-chondroitin-msm-joint-soother-027816
 
#17
I took three months of the

I took three months of the Glucosamine & Chondroitin, and I didn't feel any difference in my creaky old joints, that's why I ask.
 
#19
Barefoot TJ wrote:I took

Barefoot TJ said:
I took three months of the Glucosamine & Chondroitin, and I didn't feel any difference in my creaky old joints, that's why I ask.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't feel any better either. I just keep telling myself that I've prevented myself from feeling any worse!

Diane does feel better though.

It'll be interesting to see what the Sock Doc has to say about the merits of the three different components individually. We already know he buys the sulfur replenishment concept of MSM, but I wonder what he thinks of the joint lubricating qualities of the other two.
 
#20
Hey Barefooters - good

Hey Barefooters - good discussion here. But this thread went from a knee issue to sulfation/DMSO/etc..., which is cool because it is relevant and important. I have a some info regarding this on my drgangemi.com site but I need to write up an official post/article to hopefully shed some light on this subject. For now, as TJ mentioned, let's discuss this over at

http://www.barefootrunners.org/forum-topic/discuss-glucosamine-cchondrotin-msm-and-dmso-here
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Support Your Club

Support Your Club! Get More Odd Looks!

Forum statistics

Threads
19,158
Messages
183,645
Members
8,705
Latest member
Raramuri7

Latest posts

Share this page

Share this page
Top Bottom
Back
Menu