Discuss Glucosamine, Chondrotin, MSM, and DMSO here

Barefoot TJ

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Please discuss Glucosamine, Chondrotin, MSM, and DMSO here. (Feel free to copy your other comments from the Knee Tendonitis thread here, if you wish.)

Dr. G. would like to share his comments here later, but he's traveling right now.
 
It probably won't hurt, but

It probably won't hurt, but only has anecdotal evidence in it's favor.

Since it's just a crapshoot, I buy the cheap stuff from Puritan.com

"Double Stength " Joint Soother Glucosamine, Chondroitin & MSM.

Three tabs spaced out during the day give you the normally recomended 1500 mg. total Glucosamine for the day.

, along w/ 1700 mg of proprietary blend of MSM,chondroitin sulfate and other inactive ingrediants.

Diane takes all three in the morning, I prefer to possibly increase the effectiveness by spacing it.

Example of cost: 480 tabs X 5 (buy 2 get 3 free) for $149.98 = 2400 tabs = 6 1/4 cents each, or 18 3/4 cents a day.

You need 1095 tabs a year, so it's a little more than a years supply for two.

Kept in a temperature controlled environment and closed properly no prob.

http://www.puritan.com/glucosamine-chondroitin-045/double-strength-glucosamine-chondroitin-msm-joint-soother-027816
 
Here's a little bit while I'm

Here's a little bit while I'm thinking of it.

First, I rarely recommend glucosamine, chondroitin, or MSM. And for those who take it month after month, I'll say you're missing the big picture. Yeah it's better than taking a NSAID or pain reliever everyday if your sulfur supp is getting you by, but you're supposed to make these compounds naturally in your body. So if they work for you, you should be asking yourself WHY you're not making them yourself. It has to do with glucose metabolism. It has to do with sulfation. It has to do with methylation. For you non-biochem geeks out there who aren't familiar with those words, I will explain soon, and you'll understand it perfectly and how it makes sense to your overall health and running.

Quickly regarding the "studies" of what works and what doesn't. Does it really matter what they say? Let's face it, some of you have seen huge results with certain mentioned supps, others have not. A lot of studies show, for example, that chondroitin is too large a molecule to absorb, but still many benefit. So I will not discuss the studies because often what happens in a controlled lab, as well as the general population, does not pertain to someone who is training well and eating well; hopefully that is you.

DMSO - similar substance. It has to do with sulfur. I used that stuff all the time in college and walked around smelling like rotten milk. It's a by-product of the paper industry and was once banned (only used in equine vet care) but now you can get it and bathe in it if you want. You'll have no friends or sex life though because you'll stink! And when I took it I didn't know what I know now about training and diet so I was always injured with something. So no, I don't think you should be using DMSO either, with the exception of an acute injury.

Ok, that's the teaser. I'll do my best to get something up in the next week.
 
Ha ha ha ha!  You stunk! 

Ha ha ha ha! You stunk! That's funny. Didn't anyone bother to tell you? That reminds me...

I ran a six mile loop with a guy in my shod running club, and I had sweated so much that I splashed some water from the water fountain on my face and wiped my eyes, forgetting that I was wearing mascara from an earlier event I had attended that day, so I ended up running around tons of people looking like a raccoon! Geez, people! Speak up!
 
Ignorant here...what on earth

Ignorant here...what on earth are people using DMSO for these days?

I worked professionally with horses for years, and still to some extent today. The only reason I ever touch the stuff is for certain infections that require oinments and other medical products to be mixed with DMSO to be carried through the horse's skin and into their system quicker. That was its sole purpose, and I never handle it without gloves on. Leaves a nasty taste in your mouth if you do.

I can't imagine what people outside the horse world would want with it, so I'm somewhat curious. Unless it's also just a carrier for other substances...still think that's unnecessary, lol. Blah.
 
We were'nt discussing DMSO,

We were'nt discussing DMSO, but when talking about MSM someone wrote about how they had used it's precurser (DMSO) as a kid and that it worked in clearing up an infection.

I suppose this thread was supposed to be about Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM and really wasn't going to include DMSO.
 
For the rest of us, I think

For the rest of us, I think it should include DMSO. I would like to know more about it.
 
I've read Dr. G's post...

I've read Dr. G's post... thought provoking. (And I'd already been thinking about doing a purge of what has become my supplement cupboard... I can't be so out of whack that I need most of that stuff!) I think I eat pretty well - most everything in my kitchen has but one ingredient (exept cheese and beer - have to draw the line somewhere!) But, I have no idea whether I might be missing something, and it just seems so overwhelming to figure it all out.

When I first heard about DMSO from my chiro/ART (ex power lifter and body builder), I was curious... if it's such a great carrier (and solvent?), then it seems to me that I'd want to be REALLY cautious about what I was mixing with it, what might already be on my skin (lotion, soap residue, whatever), what might be in or on the gloves I'd be wearing to apply it.
 
Good point, Buzzie.  That

Good point, Buzzie. That could be scary.
 
I tore the lateral meniscus

I tore the lateral meniscus in each knee about 3 or 4 years ago doing a dumb lift with a dumb amount of weight and I've had sporadic knee problems ever since. I take glucosamine condroitin with MSM 3x/day and I'm not entirely sure it works. But once I run out, I'm going to quit it for a while and see if my knees get worse. I wasn't aware that the body was supposed to be making this stuff by itself.

My knees aren't perfect now, but their recovery seems to coincide with when I first tried GCMSM, so I've kept with it for several months, now. I am VERY happy that I've been able to run without crippling knee pain. Haven't been able to do that for years!
 
Yes supposedly DMSO will draw

Yes supposedly DMSO will draw other compounds into your skin, but I'm not sure as to the size of the molecule it'll pull through. Back in my DMSO days (some college students had drug or drinking years, I had my DMSO years) - I would take a mortar and pestle and crush up some ibuprofen and then mix the DMSO in with it. Then I would take my (bare) fingers and rub it into my knee (I had ITBS for several months) or heel (Achilles issues). Then let it dry or cover it up. As soon as it hit my skin I could taste it. Literally - exact second. Pretty wild. After some time of this it burned my skin like crazy, probably from the NSAIDs. And I can't be sure how well it really worked. It sure didn't cure anything - I was still injured for a long time. And as I mentioned, I really smelled bad! Now, a couple decades later, I never use it, either on myself because I don't get injured, or on patients, because I know better, faster, more effective ways to treat and prevent injuries.

So that antedote is not to teach you how to do it; just a story. Actually I recommend you DO NOT USE DMSO.

One funny story though is back in the early 1990s DMSO was banned where I grew up, in the NE corner of MA. We lived about 1mi from the NH border, where DMSO was legal. There was a guy who owned a little antique/junk store right over the border - strore was painted pink, every part of it. He had a sign "WE HAVE DMSO" on the front. You'd go in a buy from him like you were smuggling drugs back over the border, and he'd tell you DMSO miracle stories and how he bathed in it often. I think he was around 80 years old...but maybe he was 180 from all the DMSO!
 
Wow, Great article SockDoc. I

Wow, Great article SockDoc. I have been taking Glucosamine w/ MSM for a decade due to bad knees. It does help but I know that I am a stressbag and probably have high cortisol levels. I used to take suplements to manage Cortisol levels but realized they were probably a hoax.

https://www.nuskin.com/en_US/products/pharmanex/targeted_treatments/mood_support/01003518.html

It is interesting how your comments echo many of Dr. Phiol Maffetone's thoughts on diet and training. I keep hearing the same things over and over about diet, ballance and you even mentioned aerobic training.

My LDL cholesteral has been high for the last 10 years so I am on statins. Maybe if I drop the GL/msm I can get off the statins.

One never knows...

Guess some other changes are in order.
 
Thanks! Yeah that product is

Thanks! Yeah that product is a joke. It actually has MSG in it, (sodium caseinate), which is a nervous system stimulant.

Statins sure do make a mess out of your body. Not only do they deplete your COQ10, which is perhaps the most important antioxidant for your heart, but they also can make it much harder for you to absorb vitamin D, as cholesterol is needed. (A new vitamin D article will be up on the my DrGangemi.com site tomorrow - it's a good one!)

So taking glucosamine can cause cholesterol problems due to its affect on blood sugar and then lead someone to go and get a statin which results in these other problems. That's no good. Follow the Paleo-Type diet as I discuss in the post and I bet you'll see some amazing changes.

And yes, Phil Maffetone is a good friend of mine; our philosophy on health and fitness is very similar.
 

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