Plantar skin - Cold Temps.

[Barefoot Gentile]

I have noticed that the plantar skin, for me, is stubborn adapting to colder temps.

I ran an hour barefoot this morning, 35 degrees (not that cold), on wet roads. This was a challenging run, the wet conditions change the whole dynamics. I do wear vibrams during the winter months, but on a mission to become a full seasoned barefoot runner. I bagged the vibrams in mid feb. and have ran in cold temps many times.

My plantar skin is so sensitive to the cold, and I don't give myself enough time in the winter to expose myself to the winter months. These same roads I run on seem like soft sand when it's in the 40's, but low 30's and below it's a different story.



My question is, what are the scientific elements that make the skin more sensitive in the cold? And add wetness to the equation, it becomes even more sensitive, why? I will do my own research on this, but would like to hear some opinions, or facts from others.

 

[Barefoot TJ]

I think water tends to hold

I think water tends to hold the cold in more. You ever burn yourself on the stove? You go to put your burn under the water from the tap at the sink. It cools the burn and makes it feel better, at least while you have it under the pouring tap. Now add ice water to that. The burn feels even better.

I try not to run when it is below 40 and the ground is wet.

 

[stomper]

I don't know the answers to

I don't know the answers to your scientific questions, but I have noticed that the skin on the bottom of my feet has definitely changed over the winter. It's always more sensitive to gravel, etc, in the cold and especially the wet. But over the course of the winter (nearly 100% barefoot) it's gotten harder, whereas in the dry summer it was softer, and gravel hurt a bit less.

I speculate that wet conditions feel so much worse simply because cold liquid is so much better at sucking the heat out of your skin. My response has been to load up on things that help my feet warm up (like extra clothes on the rest of my body). Not sure if the nervous system itself is affected by the cold and wet.

You could ask your question in the "ask the doc" thread.

But hey, spring is coming. Soon this will be moot!

 

[Barefoot Gentile]

Very true.  After the run and

Very true. After the run and shower, it felt like someone was tickling my feet with hot little torches, they were on fire. After 6 hours that feeling is starting to dwindle, I have no abrasion, or skin damage though.



In the words of Ken Bob, I gave my feet some good nutrients.

 

[Barefoot TJ]

It is so true that when I

It is so true that when I wear extra layers, my feet don't feel as cold. Try that Gent. See if that helps your feet feel...not as cold.

 

[migangelo]

ok, i'll try to give you a

ok, i'll try to give you a scientific answer to the best of my anatomy and physiology knowledge will allow.



water has a high heat capacity. it can retain heat but will also hold it's temp for a long time. the closer it is to room temp the longer it takes to reach it. your body has a higher temp than the water and heat will always move towards cold.



the body doesn't feel temperatures below 50F. it only feels pain.



now personal thoughts. your going to feel the pain amplified when your feet go numb becuase of that. i myself find if it's raining i can handle running bf. if it's standing water from rain the day before, it's too cold.



i hope that helps with my laymens terms and understanding of AP!



mike

 

[NakedSoleNate]

and here I was thinking how

and here I was thinking how nice and warm the 40 degree pouring rain puddles felt on my feet today, compared to the snow and slush and ice of the last two months ;-)

 

[Barefoot Gentile]

My feet are not actually

My feet are not actually getting cold or numb. I am just talking about the high sensitivity to the plantar skin, in different conditions.

I ran a 18 miler in the down pouring rain last sunday, it was 45 degrees and my feet felt awesome. This mornings run at 36 degrees, with wet streets was totally different.

Migangelo: Nice response!

 

[migangelo]

thanks! nice to see i'm

thanks! nice to see i'm retaining a little of what i'm learning.

 

[stomper]

migangelo, we should also add

migangelo, we should also add that the conversion of water to water vapor (as when sweat evaporates off your skin) is an endothermic process. so beyond the heat capacity of the water, as your feet dry off, they are losing extra heat that way. (Chemistry was never my best subject, so please correct me if I'm off here.)

anyway I know Barefoot Gentile is not talking about cold per se, but sensitivity. However, my feet are definitely more sensitive when cold, so there is some connection I think.

 

[migangelo]

huh? i failed that test in

huh? i failed that test in chemistry two weeks ago.



no for reals. it's an exothermic, heat is given off, endo goes into building. that i'm sure will make you colder. i won't even pretend that i know it all, or even a quarter of it. my memory has gotten worse with age but running sure has helped it!



i can't get into the chemistry because i swear they have that book like it was translated from German into English. thank god my teacher is good at explaining everything. anatomy i try hard to keep up but this term with the body systems, forget about it.



i just posted what i know. i also know from experience i can run in shorts only in pouring rain on the trails but have to cover up when it's dry out. like today. ground water definetely feels colder than fresh rain water.



mike

 

[Barefoot Gentile]

Stomper:  Totally forget to

Stomper: Totally forget to give you a thumbs up on your response as well, my bad!

 

[Neil_D]

Hi folksI don't know how you

Hi folks

I don't know how you do it in those cold temperatures, maybe I'm just a wimp. Over this side of the world we are heading into winter and already I have had enough of it.

I went for a run this morning, a distance of 14.5km on beach and road. My feet were getting quite numb underneath after a few kilometres.

My feet were pretty sore after, I'm sure in a day or so they will be fine but I wonder why they hurt more. Could it be that because I'm not getting the same feedback that I'm landing heavier or is it just as others have mentioned the damp cold that causes the skin to be more sensitive (even though I can't feel it at the time).

I think I much prefer running in the hot summer conditions that the cold. Maybe I need to move to tropical Darwin during the southern winter.

Neil

 

[Paleo]

Hi All,here's my

Hi All,

here's my experience. I started BFR in earnest in August 2010. I started with some minshod running (my new word for minimalist shoe running), but moved quickly to nearly 100% minimalist.

As the fall and winter approached, I initially discovered that 7?C (44?F) was my limit. But, I discovered that after about 1-1.5 KM (.6-.9 miles), my feet started to feel quite comfortable, even as the temps dropped near freezing.

We have pretty wet falls and winters here in Germany. The wetness definitely makes it feels colder, just as humidity in the summer makes you feel hotter (as discussed above).

Then came the snow, and, much worse, with the snow came the gravel, which the city so kindly distributed in generous amounts to keep all of us from slipping. It is still a mystery to me why they had to scatter it on scarcely used paths in a park, but alas....

I was thus faced with the following dilemma:

1. Run minshod.

2. Run barefoot on the cleared, but gravelled areas. This means running through slush that has gravel in it. Uggh.

3. Run barefoot on the uncleared part: i.e. hardpacked snow.

In the end, I found after a few tries that I could handle the hardpack, as long as the outside temperature was above -2 or -3? (27-29?F).

Later, I found I could handle as low as -5?C (23?F) as long as it was dry.

So, I would say, Hang in there. You'll probably get used to the low temps over time.

BTW: The city never cleared the gravel. What cleared most of it was that the Rhein flooded the promenade about 4 weeks later. That took away the gravel and left a layer of sand, which was quite nice to run on. The city did clear the sand, but left the gravel in the obscure parts of the park that had never been flooded. I'm gonna get my broom out one of these days.

Cheers

Paleo

 

[kentox]

I'm in the same boat as Neil.

I'm in the same boat as Neil. I'm in Sydney and it's raining hard today and I really want to do my long run (20km+).

That wasn't so much a problem during summer but now in winter as my feet get numb I can't feel the road as much so I seem to be damaging my feet a lot more. I guess it's a combination of bad form, tiredness while on a long run which results in bad form, and weather. So I'm in two minds about this.

I seem to be able to run BF for about 20km with no damage to my feet. Over that i run into blisters on my forefoot due to maybe raising my toes too much to stop them from being scraped especially my right little toe. Or extra friction being generated on a wet surface combined with wet numb feet.

So I was thinking of running my longer runs in VFF's and then my shorter runs BF. Or start my long runs and go as far as my feet will take me before taking damage and then slip on VFF's to finish my run?

I think I'll try the bf at the begining and see how that goes over time as fingers crossed my feet and my form improve.

Sorry for the circlejerk by answering my own question but any input would help tremendously

 

[Barefoot TJ]

Ken, I found that (although I

Ken, I found that (although I haven't done this in a long while, and I didn't do it that much) if I started in footwear and ran up to the distance in footwear changing at the point I knew I would be able to complete my run barefoot, then I would be able to finish the remaining part of my run barefoot comfortably; meaning that on a seriously long run, it's more comfortable to start minshod then switch to barefoot versus the other way around. If I start barefoot then go minshod, I find that putting on the minfootwear is uncomfortable to my plantar skin, since it's already sensitive from running bare first. Hope this makes sense. So, if the way you plan to tackle it doesn't work for you, you can always try the opposite.

Like it, Paleo? Minshod?