Zion 100, 2014

Discussion in 'Ultra Barefoot & Minimalist Running' started by rickwhitelaw, Nov 2, 2013.

  1. zapmamak

    zapmamak
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    Bare Lee - my training is highly specialized for my issues and problems. My coaches do a great job of assessing where I'm at regarding any problems that might flare up at any given point in my training but the fundamentals are based on the Wesrside Barbell approach to strength training. http://www.westside-barbell.com

    Basically, my strength is mostly focused on the larger muscle groups, (my hams and glutes) and my core, although they've balanced it all out with upper body as well especially since I run longer distances where core and upper body strength keep my form relatively in tact.

    When I was strength training for my 100 miler I was doing running workouts 3 times a week at 70-100% effort depending on the length of the run.

    An additional day of conditioning was spent in the gym doing strength work but stuff like pushing a prowler (which simulates running hills) pulling sleds with weight or doing progressive lifting ( deadlift, heavy squats, sumo deadlifts).

    The other two days were built around normal strength stuff. So one day would be core (leg lifts, hollow body exercises, ab rollouts etc) while the other day would be upper body (presses, pullups, pushups, ring rows, aussie pullups, bar dips etc.)

    Then yes. I had one day off. I know it sounds like a lot but my conditioing workouts whether they were in the gym or running were on average not more than 30min to 40 min long by themselves. Adding my warmup would make each workout roughly an hour.

    Theres a lot of nuances to my training but thats it in a nutshell anyway. Hope that answered some of your questions you might have had.
     

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  2. Bare Lee

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    Thanks for taking the time to reply Zap. I'm not a real runner, even less a racer, but running and weight training are my two main fitness components, so I'm always interested in hearing how others integrate the two. Lately I've also been doing some box jumps and a few other plyometric things, and have been enjoying those. I'd be interested in hearing a little more about the details of "running workouts 3 times a week at 70-100% effort depending on the length of the run" if you have another minute.
     
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  3. zapmamak

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    Sure no problem! I don't mind sharing at all...

    So my running workouts, like I said, were often 70-100% effort - 100% effort being an all out sprint or everything I have. So, my sprints generally consisted of tabata sprints (8 reps of 20 seconds of sprinting @ 100% with a 10 second rest - I usually hallucinated at the end of these they were so exhausting... Ha!) or if I was running on the track (which I hate by the way) I might do 6 - 8 100 yard sprints with maybe 2 minutes rest in between or a mile time trial, or another 100% workout was to run the steepest hill in "The Stash" (a network of trails I run near my house) 4x at 100% effort without stopping with about a 3 minute rest in between sets.

    The runs that were 70% effort might be just running trails for 30-90 minutes total - this pace was usually at my race pace for a 5k. Sometimes I might do a run that was structured kinda like this:
    Run for 10 minutes @ 60% effort
    (2 minute rest - the rest was based on my personal recovery rate)
    Run for 10 minutes @ 80% effort
    (2 minute rest - the rest was based on my personal recovery rate)
    Run for 5 minutes @ 100% effort
    (2 minute rest - the rest was based on my personal recovery rate)

    Basically the rule was: No run should EVER feel comfortable. Every run should hurt. (Hurt in a good way, not in a bad way Ha!) In fact, I was REALLY looking forward to running Pine To Palm 100 because it meant that I could run at a comfortable pace and actually take it easy for once! Hahahaha!

    So I would say my training was probably a lot harder in some aspects than running the 100 miler. They had me doing 100 burpees, or 300 squats, or 400 lunges just so I would get used the idea of 100 of anything. That was mental training.

    My training was hard and intense but the intense part was never really longer than 30 minutes. My 100 miler wasn't easy (it was SUPER STEEP and in some parts a little trecherous and my form went to shi*t which aggravated my IT band) but it was relatively easy in some aspects compared to my training.
     

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  4. zapmamak

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    And by the way... I love box jumps, but I have to watch my form on those as well. I have a tendency to land with my knees slightly inward towards each other. I have to make a conscious effort when I'm box jumping (or lunging, or squatting or any movement where my knees bend) to pull my knees out so they are in line with my hips. But I love that I can stack the plates on top of the boxes to jump on top of. It less intimidating than having to move up to a whole new box entirely. My old gym didn't let me do that. And I pretty much go barefoot 100% in the gym, except for when its really cold. :)
     

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  5. Bare Lee

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    Thanks for sharing. Sounds pretty intense. And it's a bit counterintuitive that one could train for a 100-miler without doing a lot of long runs. Have many people been able to do this? A few times early winter I made a fast dash to my office one mile away in single digit temps, and enjoyed the exhilaration of rapidly numbing feet pushing my pace. So this year I've been toying with the idea of doing shorter, more frequent, more intense runs, 3-5 miles, and only running long every few weeks. So your approach is very intriguing.

    I've only done intervals & hills sporadically, but I love how they feel more like a workout than a normal run. More of the muscle, less of the joint, gets stressed it seems to me. Still, I love my long, steady runs, along with the occasional tempo run. I realize my approach to both weights and running has been a bit lackadaisical, and could use a little more focus and intensity. Mostly it's a question of finding the right mix of intervals, tempo, and LSD. Something that pushes me a bit more, but is sustainable, both physically and mentally.

    For weights, I'm pretty old school and like to pyramid with heavy weights at 3-8 reps. But I've recognized the need for more HIIT and Plyo type stuff like you do, so I got a medicine ball, a power wheel, some ankle weights and a few other things in addition to an adjustable plyo box (with 14", 19", and 24" height adjustments). So far, I've been getting good results.
     
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  6. zapmamak

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    Haha! Yes. Its sounds counterintuitive and crazy but this is how I know I'm not special. EVERYONE at my gym trains this way and right now the majority of athletes who train at The Ranch Athletics are ultra marathon runners. My friend Monica who trains there ran the Headlands 50 miler last September on the same training I do and is currently training for Pine To Palm 100 in 2014. In fact, I will probably be crewing/pacing her through the Siskiyous come September. Every single runner that trains with these guys has either seen huge gains in their times or distance depending on which goal they are focused on. Ultimately, I've increased my times as well for my smaller distances. The stuff we do makes us stronger runners and in general more balanced athletes.
     

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  7. zapmamak

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    ... this is great! And when you get beyond the 24" box, dude, start stacking plates on top. You'll be surprised just how far you can jump. ;-)
     

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  8. zapmamak

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    Hey Rick... sorry to jack your thread. Still, I'm proud of ya!! I think you're gonna do great. That trail is just so beautiful and so worth every mile! Have fun on the flying monkey. One day, I might just run that 100.
     

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  9. Bare Lee

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    Well, I did 24" for the first time Wednesday. Up until that height, I think most of the challenge was mental--believing that I wasn't going to hurt myself. But 24" inches feels pretty close to the physical max I can do for the foreseeable future, until my conditioning improves. Today I'm going to try sideway jumps from a lower height. It's fun to be middle-aged and still jump around like that. I'm just trying to be super careful not to overdo it and get injured. Over the last few years I've begun to feel the effects of aging, so, while I know conditioning work will slow the process down, I also know I can't just go for it like I could even just 10 years ago.
     
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  10. rickwhitelaw

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    Hijack anytime. I just used some of your training advice and PRed a 5k. I hesitate to run at 70 to 100 percent effort because of my injuries, but wow it felt great! Recent knee pain has some self doubt creeping into my mind, but I still have time to get over it. Looking forward to trying some of the "butt" exercises.
     
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  11. migangelo

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    i've been doing butt exercises since i have weak glutes. especially left glute med. i want a brazil butt in time for summer.
     

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  12. zapmamak

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  13. Bare Lee

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    Thanks, nice and concise.
    Time to eat my words; you're right! Yesterday 24 inches felt easy. I had thought I had reached my initiate's plateau, but apparently not. I could probably do 30" without killing myself. Now I'm almost wondering if, along with abdominals, stretching, and mobility stuff, I shouldn't be doing box jumps almost every day. Plyometric exercises seem to be somewhere between aerobic and anaerobic exercise, so the needed recovery time could be different too. It doesn't feel like I need 48-72 hours' rest like I do after strength training a given body part/area, but I'm wondering if I can do it every day like running. Thoughts?
     
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  14. zapmamak

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    I dont see why not. We do box jumps as well as jump roping as part of every warmup before we do our lifts. I think its a great way to prepare your body for whatever work you're gonna do, even running. You could work box jumps into a circuit of core exercises and do a whole workout. We will also do box jumps starting from a seated position or with weights to change it up. Its important to have good form in your landing position before you get all fancy with it though. :)
     

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  15. Bare Lee

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    Thanks for the prompt reply and confirmation. I have a routine I do in my office, called MINT (Medium Intensity Non-interval Training), perhaps similar to your core workout, that involves box jumps as well as a medicine ball, incline bench, ankle weights, clubbells, and a power wheel. I use it to supplement my weights and running. It's on the fourth page of the uploaded file. I don't do everything on the list in a single session of course, but pick and choose.

    My latest (ideal) approach is to do 20-30 minutes of ST everyday, 10-15 minutes of MINT, and about 30-35 mpw of running.
     

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  16. dharmadan

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    Just picturing all of your posts -- Wow. Wow!! Thank you for sharing. Sante.
     
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  17. zapmamak

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    Here's yet another good article from my coaches. Explains the order in which you should be tackling your training. Basically, start with the foundation (understanding proper movement) which all of you are doing (barefoot running) because it focuses on learning the proper movements for running. As we all know... its hard to have imperfect form when running barefoot and here in the forums we are all seeking to understand how our form plays such an important role in our running no matter what kind of runner we are. Only when we have developed a fundamental understanding of this vital part of our sport can we build the topmost parts of the pyramid... the mobility/strength, then the conditioning, and lastly honing the different aspects of our running (speed, technical trails, nutrition for running, etc...)

    http://www.theranchathletics.com/news/100-miler-in-7-hours#.UvfVeUJdWFY
     

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  18. migangelo

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    ya i kinda thought my form was decent until i had a lifter watch me run. he pointed out all my core weakness in minutes. now my first goal is to strengthen my central muscles, then form, and finally endurance.
     

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  19. rickwhitelaw

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    Great link and confirms my decision to postpone for a year. I have had some knee problems this last month which reduced my mileage and caused some mental stress. Thanks for all of your advice and will certainly use it to build up for Zion 100, 2015.

    I have also been reading Byron Powell's Relentless Forward Progress and this paragraph sealed my decision: "While I'm reticent to discourage anyone from striving for their goals, I question the need to either run a 100 miler as your first ultra or to progress through the 50k, 50 mile, and on to the 100 mile during your first season as an ultrarunner. Enthusiasm is priceless. It is also remarkably abundant and self-reinforcing in the ultrarunning world. Why not channel that initial enthusiasm toward building a strong ultrarunning foundation and enjoying your newfound running range?"

    Why am I in such a hurry? Why don't I enjoy some of the shorter distances for a while? It will happen, I just need to be patient.
     
  20. stjohnthegambler

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    Hey Rick-

    You will rock! The one thing I wish I'd done on my DNF 100 was take salt tablets. By mile 50 I had stopped sweating, and was too boggled by then to admit that was a bad thing. Also: have a good back up crew. Will you have pacers?

    John
     

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