Weight lifting...?

[Christopher Alexander]

Chaser, I spent the most

Chaser,



I spent the most part of my summer of last at the gym, well, 3 days out of the week for about 3 months. I didn't do a 1 rep max, but I'd estimate a good 200+ lbs. Nearing the end of summer/ fall, I began to run, and I enjoyed it very much. I was averaging about 20 mins. for the 5k also.



Absolutely IT IS POSSIBLE, to add muscle mass, (proportionately of course) and still be able to run.



I am going to hit the gym come spring time, and go even bigger and stronger than ever! However, I am going to add more focus, and intensity instead of just going because well, some magazine or book says I should. I am really going to litsen to my own body this time, while having a balance of good form to prevent injury (think Repetive Stress Injuries).

 

[saypay45]

BTW Chaser, Crossfit will not

BTW Chaser, Crossfit will not make you strong. Pretty much everyone's experience is that Crossfit gives you strength gains for a while, followed by a period of time where it actually makes you weaker.

I'd recommend you add some kind of strength-specific protocol to the front of your CF workouts, like Stronglifts, Wendler 5/3/1, Linear progression (Starting Strength).

Or just do Crossfit Football. Seriously....I've gained a good 20lbs on all my lifts in one month of CFFB. And shaved two minutes off my 5K.

 

[Barefoot Gentile]

I think crossfit is cool.   

I think crossfit is cool. I can see how it can shave some time off short distances, but when it comes to running long I just don't buy it, but could be wrong. I will always put my money on the person that is out there on the weekend banging out a 3-4 hour run, than the the person doing box jumps and kettlebell swings.

I am sure you all know Brian Mackenzie, one of the crossfit originators. I respect what he does, but he talks alot, and he still struggles at running long.

This was on a great thread on the other site:



http://www.runnersworld.com/community/forums/training/ultra-marathons/crossfit-instead-of-lsd

 

[talonraid]

saypay45 wrote:BTW Chaser,

BTW Chaser, Crossfit will not make you strong. Pretty much everyone's experience is that Crossfit gives you strength gains for a while, followed by a period of time where it actually makes you weaker.

....

SP,

I have to disagree with you on this one, or at least the generality of the statement. I'm surrounded by CF junkies in my life and I've never heard anyone mention a strength loss EXCEPT for the ones who were training for either a marathon, triathlon, etc. I distinctly remember some of them talking about reduction in max lifts.

I read your post right before I went to dinner tonight and I asked one of the guys I was eating with who has been doing CF for about 5 years if he had ever heard of people getting weaker. He said he had never heard of it either. He went so far as to say most people he knew at his CF gym who have being doing it long time have all made amazing strength gains but that after the initial "puppy" phase of CF most people needed to start changing up the way they train. He mentioned Crossfit Strength Bias (plenty of discussion at the bottom of this article) as a way to counter any strength loss. So, anecdotal evidence, but still doesn't quite fit in with the "Pretty much everyone..." statement.

I do wonder though if strength gain or loss over time has anything to do with people who only do CF vs. people who do CF and some other activities.

 

[saypay45]

Talon, if you do nothing but

Talon, if you do nothing but WODs, eventually you're going to top out on your strength gains because you're accustom to the weight used. The reason a lot of folks get weaker is because the CF mainsite has gotten in the bad habit of programming ridiculous metcons on a regular basis that serve to overtrain people. That's a common criticism of CF mainsite. Maybe not "pretty much everyone", but it's common knowledge.

Folks who do CF for a long time realize exactly what your friend mentioned...that they have to supplement CF workouts with something in order to continue their strength gains. Usually it's CF strength bias, CF Football, Wendler 5/3/1, or something similar.

Also, note that your friend might be referring to folks he knows who do workouts at their local affiliate. Not every affiliate has the same programming as mainsite, and many do a great job avoiding the problems that mainsite has experienced.

Funny article on the topic of supplementing CF with strength....also a great blog to read:

http://beastmodaldomains.com/2011/07/18/get-skronger-den-a-muh-volume-i-pick-a-strength-program/

 

[Abide]

talonraid wrote:-makes forum

-makes forum posts that are too long.

Amen, did I actually just read all of that?

 

[jldeleon]

Here is a link to part 3 of a

Here is a link to part 3 of a 5 part article that addresses strength training in relation to running. I would recommend you read the entire series, but I found this to be very useful.



http://sock-doc.com/sock-doc-training-strength/

 

[talonraid]

Abide wrote:talonraid

-makes forum posts that are too long.

Amen, did I actually just read all of that?

tl;dr

 

[talonraid]

SP,First, that's a funny

SP,

First, that's a funny blog. Thanks for that. I like people who can make fun of their own stupid lives.

There are more than a couple of things we can probably agree upon here. People who just do the WOD or attend one of the crummier CF boxes will probably eventually level off and then lose strength if they don't get hurt outright. I think that's probably one of the reasons the CF website and the coaches (from good CF gyms) preach taking on other activities and trying different sports. Of course pretty much everyone won't pay attention to that advice just like pretty much everyone doesn't read the instructions before they start putting together their latest home project.

However, getting your body and mind to the point you can do the prescribed WOD and not have to visit the ER is a period of time pretty much everyone will make strength gains. I can do damned few of the WODs as prescribed and although I'm a pansy, I'm not that damned weak. Anyone who can drop into the program at the prescribed intensity/weights/reps is already in BEAST MODE and probably doesn't need CF, they should continue whatever the hell they were doing previously.

I guess my point is that although I have seen some people post about "losing strength" on the CF forum it seems that as the discussion progresses and more facts come out, they either made some compounding mistake. Like doing little or nothing else even though CF encourages other activities, diet errors, not resting, over training, etc. I also believe that most people won't complain about losing strength if they haven't lost strength so you're losing that entire population who don't participate in the discussion. I BELIEVE that most people see some pretty amazing strength gains in the early stages (could be months or years) of CF and as long as they continue to challenge themselves will continue to make gains but at a reduced rate. Wow, I don't even have a financial interest in CF, but I'm starting to sound like it. Now, I guess I'll be labeled a zealot in two activities...barefoot running and CF. I have noticed that there are CF haters out there just like BFR haters. I had no idea until some muscle head had a verbal "roid" episode on me at Gold's Gym a few months ago while I was doing a WOD.

For the sake of finding other common ground, let's see where we stand on the following topics. I would also say that pretty much everyone:

-who takes up a "weight loss" diet will gain the weight back.

-loves some form of M&Ms.

-who starts an exercise program as a New Years resolution, will be confused because they didn't lose weight after not changing their diet, and will be further confused by the slight weight gain and decide to quit.

-joins Gold's Gym (or any other gym) in January is gone by February...see above.

-hates an itchy crotch.

-starts running barefoot ends up with more shoes in their closet than before they started running barefoot.

-loves to hate one of these: POSE, Chi, Natural Running.

-joins a discussion board becomes an expert on all things in less than 6-12 months.

-sounds like an idiot to someone else they talk to frequently.

-starts CF and stays with it will be chronically sore.

-secretly wants to own a miniature version of Chaser that lives in the hallway closet.

-hangs out with Pilot will feel the urge to wear pink lacy underwear.

-doesn't have a blog, makes forum posts that are too long.

-drinks beer is next to godly.

-makes beer is a god among mere mortals.

-lurks in this forum is confused by what the hell is wrong with everyone who posts.



Ciao

 

[Abide]

I had to look that up Love

I had to look that up Love it.

 

[talonraid]

Abide wrote:I had to look

I had to look that up Love it.

I wish I had thought of it. I figured you're one of the people I could drop that on that wouldn't get pissed off and would see the humor.

I'm now thinking about starting my own blog so that I can reduce the length of my posts. Plus I think I will earn my barefoot runner wings if I start a blog. Myabe I will also change my screen name to Barefoot Tool or something like that.

 

[talonraid]

Opportune:http://health.yaho

Opportune:

http://health.yahoo.net/articles/fitness/inside-cult-crossfit

This was one of the stories as I was signing into Yahoo this evening. Welcome to the CF cult. That's two cults for me now.

 

[saypay45]

I agree with everything that

I agree with everything that you said in bulletpoint form, except that I became an expert within 2 months (fast learner, bigger ego). I don't care to argue with you anymore as you're obviously a Koolaid drinking Cultfit member.

I disagree that the ability to do a WOD as rx'd necessarily serves as a measure of strength. The only measure of absolute strength is maximum tension on a muscle, period. Your ability to complete a WOD depends on lots of things like strength, technique, and work capacity to name a few.

Here's an article from a former elite CF Games competitor describing exactly the process I'm talking about taking place in her body:

http://startingstrength.com/articles/training_perspective_gillian.pdf

I would never disuade anyone from trying Crossfit. It's great for general fitness. But being "elite" at CF doesn't mean strong. Nor does improvement at CF mean you're getting "stronger". It means you're getting "good at exercise".

 

[Abide]

Wait Christian I thought you

Wait Christian I thought you were opening a crossfit gym, don't you have to be a kool aid drinker to do that?

 

[talonraid]

saypay45 wrote:I agree with

I agree with everything that you said in bulletpoint form, except that I became an expert within 2 months (fast learner, bigger ego). I don't care to argue with you anymore as you're obviously a Koolaid drinking Cultfit member.

...

No argument? Well, that sucks. I don't agree with anything I said, I was just saying it becuase it seemed to get you zipped up.

I don't think we disagreed on much here, honestly, we just weren't arguing about the same things...but I'm kind of bored with it now too.



But, thanks for proving my point with your article. She clearly states she dropped down to a 1300 cal per day diet in order to reduce her muscle size and she ended up losing strength. That was her mistake.

 

[talonraid]

Chaser, If you ever come

Chaser,

If you ever come back to this thread can you please change the name to something cool like Crossfit is for nerds?

 

[Chaserwilliams]

ClownPenis.fart

ClownPenis.fart

 

[saypay45]

Abide, I am opening a

Abide, I am opening a Crossfit gym. I believe in a lot of the underlying methods of Crossfit. I also think it needs some mods to make it effective in the long term. My plan would be to make those mods depending on the goals of my members.

 

[Abide]

I'm just jabbing you here. I

I'm just jabbing you here. I know that the breadth of what can be considered crossfit is huge and have no doubt you will run a solid place. I already like your philosophy.

And for the record I am officially crossfit free for ~3 months now. I recognized that I wanted to do more than just get good at excercise.

 

[talonraid]

Abide wrote:I'm just jabbing

I'm just jabbing you here. I know that the breadth of what can be considered crossfit is huge and have no doubt you will run a solid place. I already like your philosophy.

And for the record I am officially crossfit free for ~3 months now. I recognized that I wanted to do more than just get good at excercise.

Suckah...