The Barefoot Running Movement: We Need to Change with our Audience

Abide, when people have

Abide, when people have something to talk about that's important, the posts will get long. Even SayPay's blog is a bit long winded at times, if you ask me. Much love, SP!
 
Thank you, Palouserider.I

Thank you, Palouserider.

I think sharing personal experiences or even recommendations is fine (even when my own experience or opinion is different). Others can take or leave the information and advice.

What I have a problem with is when the advice comes packaged as part of a clinic, program, or systematic campaign, especially when money is involved. Then the advice is being offered as a product or service, and those offering the advice in that context, in my opinion, should be held accountable for their advice. Most health-related products are snake oil -- there is no scientific evidence to support their use, or even to show they do not harm.
 
What, me cuss?  Never!  Ass

What, me cuss? Never! Ass and asshole are very common words nowadays, don't you think? I mean I hear "ass" spoken on television all the time. They're even saying bitch a lot more lately. My kids hear these words on TV all the time, it seems. Pretty soon, they will be saying them on Nickelodean, Noggin, and Disney. I think it's just a sign of the times. With every generation our vocabulary changes and those words that were so offensive before become common place. If anyone complains about my use of the words ass, butt hole, or crap (I think those are my biggies), please let me know, and I will stop using them. Or try to anyway.



I purchased a pair of VFFs for my 9-year old son, and the sales clerk, SURPRISINGLY, began to give me the spiel about how he needs to wear them for short times until he can build his tissues and bones up, etc. I was SO appreciative of that guy. He was so cool!



People listen to other people more than they do a printed warning, and that printed warning may become a lot more important to the buyer after a sales associate says something. How does this change? Do min shoe manufacturers require stores selling their minimal product to train their sales force so that they can properly inform the public? Do stores selling minimal products require their sales associates to have training?

AND

I also think it is up to the Drs to find out if the patient is min shod or actual barefoot. The ones that truly care about their patients are probably already doing this, especially as barefoot and minimalist is becoming more common.

Now THIS, is something we can add to Jason's list of thing to do to get everyone on the same page about reporting injuries and hopefully curbing many of them! It's one thing to have the manufacturers do that, and Jason is making great strides there, but it's another to actually have the shoe stores and their employees on board as well. Then to also include the medical community, to have them actually ASK the patients to confide what they were or weren't wearing would be huge for us.



Thanks for the get well wishes, Nick.
 
ok, someone please tell me

ok, someone please tell me again - what exactly is the goal here? What would you all consider a sign of progress?
 
BFwillie_g wrote: what

BFwillie_g said:
what exactly is the goal here?

I thought we were just disagreeing to agree or something like that.

And for the record your post was the first one I actually read due to it's brevity.
 
Dammit Willie- pay

Dammit Willie- pay attention!
wink_smile.gif
The goal is to get people to run with better form and spread the ideas of barefoot running.

And just to clear something up- I don't make much of a profit off this gig. Since I started doing this full-time, I make about 40% of what I made last year. I live in a travel trailer with my wife, niece, and three kids. Some have suggested I'm doing this for fame, shoe contracts, or money. To those people: clearly you haven't been following me.
 
For the nay-sayers: what's a

For the nay-sayers: what's a good alternative? Got a better solution?

Minimalist shoes are going to continue to increase in popularity. What should we do- sit on the sidelines griping, wait for people to get hurt, then heckle them for not running barefoot and doing a little "I was right" dance?
 
Thank you, DB.  Very

Thank you, DB. Very eloquently said.
 
BFwillie_g wrote:NickW

BFwillie_g said:
NickW said:
I love that Willie, made me laugh!

Nice :) That was the point, Nick! This thread was getting top-heavy with the philosophising, lol. And, the little pooper is barefoot!

Just so you're actually reading it, Willie. ;-)
 
I don't know whether I'm a

I don't know whether I'm a naysayer, but I do agree with TJ and others that the notion of "barefoot running shoes" may hurt just as much as it helps. While some minimal shoe companies give lip service to barefooting, they are inherently conflicted when it comes to barefooting. It seems to me the consensus (not complete, of course) among long-time barefoot runners is that the best way to start is go completely bare and do it for a long time (months or years). From this perspective, if runners later decide to run in shoes, it might be possible for some to do so safely. This kind of message, though, would quickly bankrupt any shoe company.

Yes, there are undoubtedly many people who have not gone this route and it turned out o.k. But, on average, it seems to be the least trouble-free approach based on the limited evidence available.

True barefoot running is not a secret anymore. Anyone who wants to learn more can easily do so now. At this point in running culture, people have to make a conscious choice to run barefoot; persuasion and marketing are probably not enough for most people who might consider it. And that's o.k.

If people get injured running in minimal shoes, maybe they will seek more information on barefooting, or maybe they'll return to traditional shoes. Unless the minimal shoe manufacturers start putting warning labels on their shoes, I'm not sure passive references to barefooting will make much difference.

I haven't seen any heckling or "I was right" dances here or really much anywhere online by barefooters. In fact, I've seen the opposite (compassion and support) here at BRS. Like others, I think the overwhelming share of hostility on this topic comes from shod runners and those with vested interests (shoe sellers/manufacturers, podiatrists, etc.). What examples of heckling and "I was right" dances have you found?

But I do know that I've scolded myself for being stupid -- yes, stupid -- for not taking others' experiences seriously when I started to run in minimal shoes. I was not ignorant; I just didn't want to believe it, and thought I could be different. I was a perfect case of someone who _wanted_ to run in minimal shoes (barefoot was too radical in my view then), and a temporary period of barefooting was only for transitioning into minimal shoes.

Becoming a barefoot runner can be like changing religions or personalities. I strongly identified with traditional running shoes, and believed all the hocus pocus about them (never once thinking to check whether there was any evidence behind the talk). New runners don't suffer from such baggage, fortunately. But for many current runners, it's unreasonable to expect much change until they have made a decision to change. And that decision is probably most likely to occur after suffering an injury or injuries.

One could even argue that injuries from minimal shoes might prompt more people to run barefoot (perhaps out of desperation). One could also argue that injuries from minimal shoes might discourage more people from running barefoot than would happen otherwise. But either way, it seems to me that those starting to run in minimal shoes should be warned that their risk of injury may be higher than if they did something else (such as continuing to run in traditional shoes or running barefoot).
 
Last Place Jason wrote:Since

Last Place Jason said:
Since I started doing this full-time, I make about 40% of what I made last year. I live in a travel trailer with my wife, niece, and three kids. Some have suggested I'm doing this for fame, shoe contracts, or money. To those people: clearly you haven't been following me.

well... Jason, would you turn down any of those things if they materialized for you? Heck no. Neither would I, lol. And I think, yeah, you have to have those things at least as background motivation for what you're doing, no? Otherwise, wtf?

I'm genuinely curious: How have your expenses changed over the past couple years? Have they dropped close to the 60% you'd need to offeset the loss in income?

Any other ways you've profited that might not be so tangible?

Also, TJ, yesssss... I've read through all the posts but my head starts swimming and I lose track of where I am, and the focus of what exactly is being discussed. Hence, my original query :)
 
BFwillie_g wrote:Last Place

BFwillie_g said:
Last Place Jason said:
Since I started doing this full-time, I make about 40% of what I made last year. I live in a travel trailer with my wife, niece, and three kids. Some have suggested I'm doing this for fame, shoe contracts, or money. To those people: clearly you haven't been following me.

well... Jason, would you turn down any of those things if they materialized for you? Heck no. Neither would I, lol. And I think, yeah, you have to have those things at least as background motivation for what you're doing, no? Otherwise, wtf?

I'm genuinely curious: How have your expenses changed over the past couple years? Have they dropped close to the 60% you'd need to offeset the loss in income?

Any other ways you've profited that might not be so tangible?

Also, TJ, yesssss... I've read through all the posts but my head starts swimming and I lose track of where I am, and the focus of what exactly is being discussed. Hence, my original query :)



Actually, if they conflicted with my goals, I would turn them down. Becoming a nomadic runner has been the best decision of my life, and a major part of that is life simplification and shunning excessive materialism.

As far as logistics- yes, expenses dropped to match income. As far as profiting in other ways... I get to run a lot and meet a ton of awesome people, watch my kids grow up, and write antagonizing blog posts al day long. Those are difficult to quantify.
wink_smile.gif
 
DB wrote:I don't know

DB said:
I don't know whether I'm a naysayer, but I do agree with TJ and others that the notion of "barefoot running shoes" may hurt just as much as it helps. While some minimal shoe companies give lip service to barefooting, they are inherently conflicted when it comes to barefooting. It seems to me the consensus (not complete, of course) among long-time barefoot runners is that the best way to start is go completely bare and do it for a long time (months or years). From this perspective, if runners later decide to run in shoes, it might be possible for some to do so safely. This kind of message, though, would quickly bankrupt any shoe company.

Yes, there are undoubtedly many people who have not gone this route and it turned out o.k. But, on average, it seems to be the least trouble-free approach based on the limited evidence available.

True barefoot running is not a secret anymore. Anyone who wants to learn more can easily do so now. At this point in running culture, people have to make a conscious choice to run barefoot; persuasion and marketing are probably not enough for most people who might consider it. And that's o.k.

If people get injured running in minimal shoes, maybe they will seek more information on barefooting, or maybe they'll return to traditional shoes. Unless the minimal shoe manufacturers start putting warning labels on their shoes, I'm not sure passive references to barefooting will make much difference.

I haven't seen any heckling or "I was right" dances here or really much anywhere online by barefooters. In fact, I've seen the opposite (compassion and support) here at BRS. Like others, I think the overwhelming share of hostility on this topic comes from shod runners and those with vested interests (shoe sellers/manufacturers, podiatrists, etc.). What examples of heckling and "I was right" dances have you found?

But I do know that I've scolded myself for being stupid -- yes, stupid -- for not taking others' experiences seriously when I started to run in minimal shoes. I was not ignorant; I just didn't want to believe it, and thought I could be different. I was a perfect case of someone who _wanted_ to run in minimal shoes (barefoot was too radical in my view then), and a temporary period of barefooting was only for transitioning into minimal shoes.

Becoming a barefoot runner can be like changing religions or personalities. I strongly identified with traditional running shoes, and believed all the hocus pocus about them (never once thinking to check whether there was any evidence behind the talk). New runners don't suffer from such baggage, fortunately. But for many current runners, it's unreasonable to expect much change until they have made a decision to change. And that decision is probably most likely to occur after suffering an injury or injuries.

One could even argue that injuries from minimal shoes might prompt more people to run barefoot (perhaps out of desperation). One could also argue that injuries from minimal shoes might discourage more people from running barefoot than would happen otherwise. But either way, it seems to me that those starting to run in minimal shoes should be warned that their risk of injury may be higher than if they did something else (such as continuing to run in traditional shoes or running barefoot).



You DO understand the point of my entire proposal is to get the minimalist shoe runners to run barefoot, right?
 
I, for one, don't actually

I, for one, don't actually believe that we'll ever seriously reduce the rate of conventional shoe use beyond an incremental, tiny slice of the market. We'll always be lonsome, here out on the flakey fringe. Not that we're wrong, just a bit braver and, just maybe, a bit more aware of our own personal bigger pictures. Maybe I'm wrong.
 

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