Stretching..Who Does and Who Doesn't?

[Wayne Whiting]

Some comments were made in another thread about stretching and I didn't want to take that thread off topic. I've been running for 38 years, 13 marathons and 8 ultras. I started stretching when I started running in 1975 after reading George Sheehan's first book on running. Over the years I have been inconsistent in stretching. I probably haven't stretched regularly for 15 years. I am only aware of one scientific research study on stretching and it was inconclusive on whether stretching improved performance or prevented injury.

So please enlighten me on any studies you might be aware of that show stretching to be a beneficial practice. I am not interested in anecdotal testimonies as I'm sure there are thousands of those out there, but rather controlled scientific studies. Thanks!

 

[JosephTree]

I don't. I do use a roller - "the stick" -before and after pretty regularly.

It's not a study, as I now see you asked for, but I've already typed it and you can just gracefully breeze by.

 

[dutchie53]

Not much stretching before, but stretch and roll after run. I know I've read this in a few books as well that it's better after than before, the only one I can remember at the moment was the book "Breathing Right", or something like that.

 

[Wayne Whiting]

Here is the study I alluded to in the original post. I believe the study is four years old. Was hoping to find something more current.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10694106?dopt=Abstract

 

[NickW]

Hi Wayne, if I remember correctly you are fairly new to this site. A couple years ago the Sock Doc had an article about how we shouldn't stretch, so a number of us tried it. I was one of those folks and I just rolled my legs on a foam or pvc roller. I ended up with lot's of injuries related to tight muscles and developed plantar fasciitis from it. I went through a year and half or so of pain and injuries and now I stretch a small amount before and a little longer after a run. My pf is mostly gone now when the stretching is combined with the rolling. I know some people also tried that advice of not stretching and they haven't had the problems like I and many others did. It does seem to come down to the individual I think. I also notice a difference between mild stretching and not stretching before a run. If I don't do a very mild amount of stretching my legs tend to not perform as well and feel off and like they are full of lead. Just a mild stretching session before (not to where you feel pain [you know that good pain of stretching]) and my legs are ready to go. I do a light hamstring stretch and a light calf stretch.

 

[Lomad]

I stretch and roll after all runs. Like Nick, I tried the 'no stretching' approach and ended up a knotted mess. Foam rolling mitigated some of it, but my study of one shows that post run stretching helps keep injury at bay.

 

[Barefoot Dama]

I have never, never stretch before my runs and like most people here I do the rumble roller all over my body particularly my butt and hips and the only stretching I do is reverse calf stretches all after several hrs post run-never right after a run.
I guess all depends on the individual.

 

[Wayne Whiting]

Hi Nick. Yes, I am fairly new to this forum. I did join a couple of years ago during one of my unsuccessful attempts at running barefoot, but I was only active on my state chapter (Oregon at the time) briefly. I did not see the article you are referring to above. Was it a scientific article or just advice that you shouldn't stretch?

You are right that stretching is an individual thing and by no means interpret what I am saying as advice not to stretch. This is what I meant by anecdotal testimonies. One runner will swear by stretching and another say it is a waste of time. For example, you say PF was the result of tight muscles from not stretching. I too had a bad bout of PF during a period I was actively stretching. Does that mean stretching prevents PF? Not necessarily. It only means it seems to help you and did nothing for me. Another example is when I got calf pain from running barefoot a couple of months ago and bought a book on self massage. I massaged my calves vigorously and the pain was 90% better the next day. Does that mean massage is good for calf pain? It would seem so, but it means absolutely nothing from a scientific standpoint.

I think following advice from subjective evidence is a dangerous practice, no matter how it might work for you. All you can say is, "Hey, this worked for me. Give it a try!" My bias for not stretching comes from my own personal experience and hanging around a bunch of elite runners (sub 2:12 marathon) who never stretched. They simply didn't have the time. They were always running! My bias is exactly that - mine. Not something I should recommend for others.

What I am looking for here is scientific evidence like the article I mentioned above. There are smaller studies around, but this is the only one I am aware of done over a significant period of time and uses more than 1000 subjects.

Thanks for your input!

 

[Bare Lee]

Even with anecdotal evidence, it's not clear exactly what someone is doing when they say they stretch. Doing the splits? Bending over slightly?

For me, the best scientific evidence, with a huge sample size, tested over years and years, comes from professional sports. As far as I know, almost all professional athletes stretch to some extent. With so much money at stake for high performance, and so much at risk if injured, I'll take that implicit advice over some chiro wacko trying to draw web traffic to his internet site any day. Read below for unsolicited anecdotal evidence.

Unsolicited anecdotal evidence: Stretching together with rolling the lower leg with a stick and, to a lesser extent, rolling the upper leg with a foam roller, has cured all my repetitive stress issues. I find a good hammie stretch particularly beneficial, but I stretch everything, including the feet. Besides the benefits to running, I love feeling limber. If stretching means having slightly less elastic recoil and consequently running one or two seconds per mile slower, that's a trade-off I can live with.

 

[NickW]

Hi Nick. Yes, I am fairly new to this forum. I did join a couple of years ago during one of my unsuccessful attempts at running barefoot, but I was only active on my state chapter (Oregon at the time) briefly. I did not see the article you are referring to above. Was it a scientific article or just advice that you shouldn't stretch?

You are right that stretching is an individual thing and by no means interpret what I am saying as advice not to stretch. This is what I meant by anecdotal testimonies. One runner will swear by stretching and another say it is a waste of time. For example, you say PF was the result of tight muscles from not stretching. I too had a bad bout of PF during a period I was actively stretching. Does that mean stretching prevents PF? Not necessarily. It only means it seems to help you and did nothing for me. Another example is when I got calf pain from running barefoot a couple of months ago and bought a book on self massage. I massaged my calves vigorously and the pain was 90% better the next day. Does that mean massage is good for calf pain? It would seem so, but it means absolutely nothing from a scientific standpoint.

I think following advice from subjective evidence is a dangerous practice, no matter how it might work for you. All you can say is, "Hey, this worked for me. Give it a try!" My bias for not stretching comes from my own personal experience and hanging around a bunch of elite runners (sub 2:12 marathon) who never stretched. They simply didn't have the time. They were always running! My bias is exactly that - mine. Not something I should recommend for others.

What I am looking for here is scientific evidence like the article I mentioned above. There are smaller studies around, but this is the only one I am aware of done over a significant period of time and uses more than 1000 subjects.

Thanks for your input!

Ya I know you were looking for studies, but I don't really know any actual studies. I was saying for me, that stretching helps. As far as that article from the sock doc, yes it was on here. I just tried to find it so I could link it for you but I can't seem to find it. Maybe somebody that remembers the actual title of it can link it here for Mr Whiting. I know he created a shirt called stretching is for bozos, and I had thought the title of his article was the same but apparently it is not. Anyhow, if I come across it I will link it for you. Like Lee, I tend to look at professional athletes and what they do for their bodies as their bodies are their livelihoods and they have to make sure they are in tip top form.

 

[NickW]

Ok I just found the article but it was on the old site. Maybe TJ can help here, but because there was a link in the thread for the article it doesn't seem to work anymore.
http://www.thebarefootrunners.org/t...y-dr-stephen-gangemi-a-k-a-the-sock-doc.3399/
When you click the link in the post to read the article it just errors.

 

[nisto]

Re: professional athletes: do long distance runners stretch as much as say basketball players? The one world class runner I've heard say something on the subject barely stretched, if at all.

 

[Wayne Whiting]

Nick - yeah, tried the link and it didn't work. Is this Doc Soc a chiropractor? Another discipline with a paucity of research.

Bare Lee - Sorry, I can't accept the evidence of professional athletes stretching as evidence that it is beneficial. Although I think NFL players would make a great study group. I think football players stretch before a game because they don't know what else to do with their time before a game other than eat breakfast. Let me qualify my comments with the fact that I have a master's degree in athletic training and certified with the National Athletic Trainers Association (AT.C) and certified with the National Strength and Conditioning Association. I have never worked with professional athletes but plenty of Division I football and baseball athletes at the University of Nevada, Reno. Baseball pitchers might have the most overuse problems of any other athlete (except runners, ha!). Well, maybe tennis players too. I have stretched pitchers arms until I was blue in the face using every kind of stretching technique you can possibly think of. All for naught. Division I does not have the money and risk involved as professional sports, but the stakes are surprisingly high. Just ask any college football coach who gets contacted by ESPN to have a Game Day show on their campus. I just moved from Eugene, OR, where Chip Kelly just bought a huge house before he got an offer from the Philadelphia Eagles. What, lose a couple of million on a house for the opportunity to coach in the NFL. No problem.

So guys, I'm glad stretching and rolling is working for you! For me, I'll spend the time drinking another good IPA until I see solid evidence to the contrary.

 

[Barefooting Bob]

Throwing my 'Lack of Two Sense' into the discussion.
I do believe in stretching at the beginning of a run, but my definition might be a little different. I stretch by starting to run in a slow and easy way for the first bit to warm up my muscles, this allows me to not damage anything by stressing out cold muscles. I find that I end up pulling something when I push cold muscles to far, hence the slow run to warm me up. The end of a run is also finished with a cool down run or walk for the same reasons. This works for me quite well.

Here is the words of a well known barefoot runner that sticks in my mind. This was posted by Zola Budd a few weeks ago, it might give you another thought on the subject.

"The Importance of Stretching

Science has brought us many dissertations and scientific explanations on the importance of stretching and how it will and can affect our running. Books have been written about the subject and doctoral thesis h...ave been earned on the basis of stretching.

As I have matured in age, I have realized the importance of stretching and how it is crucial in my running regime. I experience it every day and every time I go out for a run I feel the effect of the benefits of stretching.

The effects are especially noticeable early in the morning. When I slide out of bed( I dont get up out of bed, I slide out) and try and stand up, I feel my back stretch. When I try and take the first few steps, my achilles stretch. The worst stretch is trying to put on my shoes. I keep falling over trying to stand upright and eventually just plunge down on the couch and try to bend down to put on the shoes. The stretching then continues; giving the first step out the front door, I swing my arms violently to cause some blood flow. By the time I reach the mail box, I am dizzy and disoriented and I just start moving in the general direction of the fire hydrant on the corner. My aim is to reach that without a total implosion. After running for 5 minutes and reaching the red hydrant totally exhausted, the real stretching starts as I reach down to try and retie my shoes without sitting down.

Oh, the blessing of maturing and stretching.

Enjoy your running - even if it is just so that we can laugh at ourselves."

 

[Bare Lee]

Nick - yeah, tried the link and it didn't work. Is this Doc Soc a chiropractor? Another discipline with a paucity of research.

Bare Lee - Sorry, I can't accept the evidence of professional athletes stretching as evidence that it is beneficial. Although I think NFL players would make a great study group. I think football players stretch before a game because they don't know what else to do with their time before a game other than eat breakfast. Let me qualify my comments with the fact that I have a master's degree in athletic training and certified with the National Athletic Trainers Association (AT.C) and certified with the National Strength and Conditioning Association. I have never worked with professional athletes but plenty of Division I football and baseball athletes at the University of Nevada, Reno. Baseball pitchers might have the most overuse problems of any other athlete (except runners, ha!). Well, maybe tennis players too. I have stretched pitchers arms until I was blue in the face using every kind of stretching technique you can possibly think of. All for naught. Division I does not have the money and risk involved as professional sports, but the stakes are surprisingly high. Just ask any college football coach who gets contacted by ESPN to have a Game Day show on their campus. I just moved from Eugene, OR, where Chip Kelly just bought a huge house before he got an offer from the Philadelphia Eagles. What, lose a couple of million on a house for the opportunity to coach in the NFL. No problem.

So guys, I'm glad stretching and rolling is working for you! For me, I'll spend the time drinking another good IPA until I see solid evidence to the contrary.

You're way more qualified on this subject than I am, although I doubt NFL players do much of anything in their training without a specific purpose. And like I said, my personal goals and experience have nothing to do with performance and rigorous research, and so I made my anecdotal comments optional. I want general fitness and well-being, and being limber and injury-free plays a big part of that, along with IPAs. Also, I think a pitcher's overuse injury and TOFP or ITBS from running's repetitive stress are two different things. Since getting rid of TOFP and ITBS through a combination of stretching and massaging, I've increased my mileage by about two-fold, so I don't think it was an overuse injury to begin with, just lack of pre- and post-run prep and maintenance. Anyway, this has nothing to do with research so I'll butt out now, and keep my eyes out for more apposite contributions. It's an interesting topic.

 

[flammee]

I don't know about science... Personally I used to stretch actively when I trained martial arts. When I stopped training them I stopped stretching, for a couple of years. Now I have started stretching again, I think it might help a bit, makes me feel bit more limber and relaxed. And it's actually quite enjoyable. I don't do long sessions, just about 15 minutes. Normal passive long stretches, nothing fancy or too effective. I have tried out PNF ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNF_stretching ) stretching and got injured the next day and not so long ago I tried AIS ( http://www.smartstretch.com ) and got bit similar feeling. And those "advanced" stretching systems are just too much work and not enjoyable. I'm too lazy for such.

 

[DNEchris]

So guys, I'm glad stretching and rolling is working for you! For me, I'll spend the time drinking another good IPA until I see solid evidence to the contrary.

As long as you relax whilst doing that all is well!

I have no use for stretching most of the time.

 

[Hobbit]

Perhaps it would be a good idea to give a clear definition of what is meant by "stretching".
For some people it means just some movements in every direction to warm up or cool down, for others it's nearly an athletic discipline - after the aerobic fad in the eighties there was a stretching fad with expensive special courses and all the typical stuff to buy...

 

[Wayne Whiting]

Definition of stretching...Hmm...I suppose my unscientific definition would be holding a certain position for 20-30 seconds, i.e., static versus dynamic?

I agree, Bare Lee, that NFL players do not do anything without a specific purpose. Getting out on the field before a game gives players an opportunity to interact with the fans, sign autographs, stretch?, etc. Hey, BTW, what do you do in the wintertime in Minnesota?

Flamee mentions "enjoyment." Let's not forget fun. If something is fun, don't neglect it!

Barefooting Bob alludes to gradually getting warmed up. Reminds me of an article I read recently of someone going on a run with some elite Kenyan women. The run started out at almost a walk and continued at a very slow jog until things got warmed up. There's certainly something to be said about warming up gradually.

Perhaps I'll do my own study on stretching and injury prevention with barefoot runners in Central Park. Chris, you can sign up here ______________.

 

[DNEchris]

Barefooting Bob alludes to gradually getting warmed up. Reminds me of an article I read recently of someone going on a run with some elite Kenyan women. The run started out at almost a walk and continued at a very slow jog until things got warmed up. There's certainly something to be said about warming up gradually.

That's my warm up - except, not being an elite, I start at a slow trot.

Perhaps I'll do my own study on stretching and injury prevention with barefoot runners in Central Park. Chris, you can sign up here Name your day.