Shoes with wide toe box

[PB Junkie]

Ah well, I had good half a year of running, then all of sudden, my fivefingers just stopped working. My right calf gets painfully stiff when running with vff. Before vff, I was desperately searching for good wide "ultra-minimalistic" shoe, spend a good amount of money to try several differend shoes and brands. Seems like not much has happened since I started barefoot/minimalistic running in choice of shoes. There still are only vivobarefoot, huaraches and fivefingers and pretty much nothing else. Tons of zero drops, but it seems that they are too thick, too narrow or just somehow else not good.

This calf getting stiff, well, with vivo ultras and altra adams, no problems. Ultras and adams work, but ultras give me blisters and are bit too cold at winter and adams - well, I just don't like them much, although they are the most reliable shoe I have ever had.. Fivefingers felt much better when they were not giving me stiff calf. It kind of feels like replacing spring with stiff stick, every foot strike feels like jarring impact, especially in calf, but also at the ball of foot, knee and thigh..

Sigh, I guess it's second round with huaraches.

Flammee, have you looked at the new Merrell Vapor Gloves? Don't know about the width, but Justin at Birthday Shoes thought they would work well for wide feet.

http://birthdayshoes.com/vapor-glove-merrell-barefoot-initial-review

Personally, I've gotten so used to wearing huaraches, I have a hard time wearing shoes.

 

[flammee]

Ah, somehow my toes got all of sudden bigger or something, removing insole from komodosports seemed to help. I have had before this case of too narrow shoe or sock, that causes calves to hurt, just didn't realize that it was about that, since it has never happened with fivefingers and I did run with those fivefingers plenty of hudreds of kilometers without problems.. I found review that says vapor gloves a narrow, so they probably are.. There's tons of reviews where trail gloves are described as wide (someone even described them as wider than altra adams!) although they are very narrow, so there's just tons of blogs that has no crebility in this wideness issue, like runblogger, barefoot running university, birthday shoes and so on...

 

[NickW]

Flammee, there's also the fact that everybody's foot shape may be slightly different which affects the fit of a shoe, making it appear wider or narrower than another shoe. My feet for example, flare out on the outside edge a little bit while I also have lower arches. This causes shoes like Merrells barefoot line to be way too narrow for me. Some NB shoes, depending on the shape of the shoe, I can fit in the regular D width, but some I have to get the EE width. Saucony seems to tend to fit the shape and width of my feet well too, but I know a ton of people who think they are narrow shoes. Altra Adams fit me pretty good in the midfoot but the toebox is too small the way it is shaped. My big toe pushes on the sidewall of the shoe. Vivobarefoots are slightly too narrow for me because of the foot that flares out a bit on the outside edge which causes the midfoot to be too tight. With shoes it's all about perceived width due to the shape of your feet, and people really have quite a variance in foot structure. This means that a persons perception in width of a shoe is really dependent on their foot shape. The best practice with shoe reviews is to find a shoe reviewer who has reviews that seem to match up how you would rate a shoe. They would therefor have a similar foot shape to yours and therefor their reviews may be more accurate to how you would perceive a shoe to fit. Jason for example, I will trust his reviews on the durability for a shoe, but I don't on the fit because shoes seem to fit him different than they do me.

 

[Nyah]

Altra Adams fit me pretty good in the midfoot but the toebox is too small the way it is shaped. My big toe pushes on the sidewall of the shoe.

I can't visualize that happening at all. I've not seen a company putting out shoes with as much big toe room as Altra's. All others push on the side of the big toe more than Altras do (except when Vivobarefoot upsizes their shoe and labels it as a smaller size).

 

[NickW]

I can't visualize that happening at all. I've not seen a company putting out shoes with as much big toe room as Altra's. All others push on the side of the big toe more than Altras do (except in the case of Vivo, who upsizes some of their shoe models and labels them as a smaller size).

If you read my post Nyah, it's the shape of the foot that causes the problems. My pinky toes in the Adams have all kinds of room but the big toe doesn't. I know you hate most shoes and I'm not going to get into a shoe argument with you, but I can see looking at the pic of your avatar that (assuming these are your feet) that the shape of your feet is different from the shape of mine. This means that shoes are going to fit you differently from the way they fit me. Nothing hard to understand. I also have a huge problem with socks rolling cockeyed on my feet, which vff's do the same thing although with the vff speeds I am able to minimize that by adjusting the fit better with the laces.

 

[Nyah]

NickW, you stated that Altra Adams have less room afforded to the big toe than other shoes do. That is a comparison of shoes, not feet.

 

[NickW]

No, read my post Nyah. I said for me, my big toe pushes on the sidewall of the Adams. READ EVERY WORD. There's two sentences there in regards to the Adams, not just one. I can see how you may misread what I said though if you just read the one because I did not word it the greatest. For me, the shoe is too narrow in the toes because my big toe pushes and rubs on the sidewall. That is a foot problem, not necessarily a shoe problem. The point I was getting at, which you seem to have missed, is that each reviewer may have a different opinion on the fit of a shoe due to the shape of their foot. Not all shoes are shaped the same, which I know you know because you rail very hard against Merrell for their narrowness. I can't wear them myself, but that does not mean that people with the right shaped feet can't wear them. You and I Nyah just happen to be ones that can't wear them. In anycase, when it comes to shoe reviews you should trust a reviewer that you know has similar fit to you. The way you get that knowledge is by trying on a crapload of shoes and finding out what works for you. By doing this you can then start to find common themes of reviewers and what you know does or does not work for you. Is it a pain? Yes. Really though, you should trust your own opinions and not someone elses. I do trust Jasons, runbloggers, birthday shoes, saypay, etc for their views on the shoe itself but I never fully trust their review on the fit. That part of it I figure out for myself.

 

[flammee]

Yes, those blogs have great information about shoes, but width is bit problematic, can't trust completely anyone who says trail gloves are wide in the issue of width.

I guess that midfoot shape could also have something to do how toebox feels, like if someone has more meat and stuff on the outer edge of foot (somewhere there was such picture of someone's foot that had that extra stuff there), it could cause foot to point more inwards inside shoe than someone with more narrow midfoot. It would probably be useful if bloggers would compare different shoe widths also with having different shoes on same picture or something like that.

Besides foot shapes, there's probably also lots of difference on how sensitive different parts of foot are to narrowness and how toes splay...

 

[Nyah]

NickW, the two-sentence statement you wrote,

Altra Adams fit me pretty good in the midfoot but the toebox is too small the way it is shaped. My big toe pushes on the sidewall of the shoe.

implies that there are shoes with a wider shaped toebox than the Altra Adam. If there truly is a shoe with more room for the big toe than what the Altra Adam provides, I want to know what it is.

 

[NickW]

Nyah, it implies that there are shoes that fit the shape of my foot better, and in so they have more toe room, FOR ME. I'm done with this arguing now. You seem to really like to argue shoes for some reason, it's almost like your life mission or something. Funny thing is, you and I actually agree quite a bit about shoes but you'll never know that because you're too busy trying to always argue with people.

 

[Nyah]

NickW, you mentioned that your big toe pushes on the sidewall of the Altra Adam, more than it does on other shoes. I want to know what those other shoes are.

 

[NickW]

NickW, you mentioned that your big toe pushes on the sidewall of the Altra Adam, more than it does on other shoes. I want to know what those other shoes are.

My god Nyah, let it go man let it go.

 

[Nyah]

NickW, why won't you tell me what shoe's sidewall rubs your big toe less than the Altra Adam does? If there's a shoe which offers more room in this area, I want to know what it is.

 

[NickW]

It's a footshape thing Nyah, your feet I can clearly see from you picture, are shaped differently than mine. For me, the Saucony Kinvara 3's for example, don't rub the big toe. The problem with them, well, you know that. They are just way to clunky and thick and non flexible. I only wear them when going to my inlaws house. I also have a pair of NB MR1400's that don't rub too bad. They do a little, but the general shape of the shoe fits me better. Problem with them, well, they are thick in the heel with 10-11mm drop but are a little more flexible that the Kinvara's. They also don't last very long and break down pretty fast. The vivobarefoot neo, neo trail, and evo II's all don't fit me well in the midfoot region and are fine walking around but when I run in them cause me pain in the arches from squishing the midfoot. Merrells do the same thing to me except I can't even walk in those crappy things without having the pain. Anything else you want to know Nyah? If you look in the shoe section you can see my opinion on a lot of shoes as I seem to have tried nearly all of the minimalist shoes and most don't fit or work well for me.

 

[Nyah]

I knew nothing about the Saucony Kinvara 3 so, looked for photos of it. It looks, to me, to be essentially the same shape as any other conventional running shoe:

Altra Adam puts the sidewall comparatively farther out from the big toe:

Kinvara 3 on feet:

Altra Adam on feet:

 

[NickW]

What part of feet come in all different shapes do you not get? I'm done. Have fun Nyah.

 

[NickW]

Nyah, I was just looking at your pictures you posted of the adam and the kinvara. One thing you will notice different between the two, is the outer edge of the adam is straight. The kinvara on the other hand bows to the outside a bit. My feet actually bow quite a bit to the outside on that outside edge. Could be that this bowing of my foot could be pulling the adam and causing problems with fit and making that big toe hit. The kinvara on the other hand doesn't get pulled on the other hand because it has that bow built in. It's just a thought. Also, if you ever want people to start having an intellectual conversation with you, quit trolling and start talking to people with an open mind, listen to what they are saying instead of just arguing to argue.

 

[Nyah]

Considering that the big toe is located considerably forward of the foot's side edge, I'm having a hard time believing that's happening, even in a haphazard case of an unsecured instep strap (an unrecommended way of wearing it).

 

[NickW]

You really can't get past yourself can you?

 

[Lomad]

Nick, can't you see that the shoes on someone else's feet represent exactly how they will fit on yours? It's pretty obvious to me that you have no idea how your shoes actually fit you. Just accept that the Altras fit you better; it'll be better in the long run. Nothing can fit as well as the shoe that's marketed as foot shaped. It HAS to be the truth.

Pfffffffffftttttttttt I've worn 3 different Altra models. The Adams may have been the worst thing I ever put on my feet. The lone peaks make contact with my big toe on the inside. Really. It IS possible. The instinct 1.5's are terrible to run in ( I know, I know; I must have awful form if the zero drop shoes don't work for me...I'll have to resign myself to more injury free miles in those dreadful super comfy high drop trainers I've been getting faster in...oh well).

You can't argue with dogma, Nick. You'll never hear the end of all the ways you're wrong.